Tics v Hornets | Page 3 | Vital Football

Tics v Hornets

Thought we played well and most players played probably to the best of their abilities. You could see that extra quality they had going forward and given they had a 5 million striker up top so they should. Be interesting to see if we can stay up this season. Owners gambled on promotion with contracts last season so dont have much in pot to go again this year as most have signed till end of season. Fans on here deluded if they think we can compete financially on our crowds with top sides in division.
 
Ooohaaahdonniepage said:
Fans on here deluded if they think we can compete financially on our crowds with top sides in division.
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Blackpool have smaller attendances than ours, they beat Watford 3-1 two weeks ago. Millwall's attendances are about the same or marginally bigger, they beat Watford 3-0 last week.

I just don't buy that we can't compete against these teams. It just feels defeatist and if that's the mindset Leam is instilling in these players then no wonder we've won at home once since April.
 
jocklatic said:
Funny how we all see it differently, we were the better team in the first 10 mins n then try to defend for the next 78 min wen they score....having defended / slow build up play for all that time before conceding can u turn ur play into attack for the last 10 mins or so of play....imo LR got it all wrong in playing for a point n it came back to bite him in the arse big time. My main gripe is how the fuck is MP a guaranteed started every bloody week....piss poor throw ins, piss piss poor long throws & even pissier ( I know it's not a word) crosses.....needs benching for a few weeks. Just a shame MP ain't on 5 yellows n that way he deffo misses next match.
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TBF Jock, I am in the opposite camp to you.

I thought the performance level from us was decent and we did try to get the passing game going. The first ten to fifteen minutes we succeeded and looked good, and this is where we differ, you say we went defensive, I would say that Watford got their act together and pressed high forcing us to go long as we don't have the quality to break the press.

For me this was a game of quality vs triers, the latter being what we are, whereas Watford still have a lot of PL quality in their side. This was evident in the way they played around us using one touch football to create space and stretched the play with wide players who were always available to receive the ball when we put them under pressure.

With the players we have we have to play at our best every game, and even then, we are not guaranteed a win when we come up against quality players. We all knew this was going to be a tough season and so it is proving to be. I still believe we have the ability to win games through sheer effort and togetherness and that we will survive, but we need to be picking up points against the teams around us, and so the Stoke game on Wednesday becomes an important game as they are only above us on goal difference.
 
HudWiganFan said:
Blackpool have smaller attendances than ours, they beat Watford 3-1 two weeks ago. Millwall's attendances are about the same or marginally bigger, they beat Watford 3-0 last week.

I just don't buy that we can't compete against these teams. It just feels defeatist and if that's the mindset Leam is instilling in these players then no wonder we've won at home once since April.
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We seem to have lost that seige mentally at home. What worries me is that most of these players are out of contract in summer where is the money to replace and upgrade them
 
Funny how we see football differently effort plenty Skillm and pace nil 3 times. Shinnie was in front of goal just outside the box. And passed at least four times got done for pace. And he is one of our better players. They were absolutely dog sh….t at the back and we didn’t put them under any pressure Makes subs and it’s like for like. Bring a extra forward on not take one off. League one football again I’m sorry to say
 
jocklatic said:
....imo LR got it all wrong in playing for a point n it came back to bite him in the arse big time. ....
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I've got to say Jock, I don't think we did that at all. However, I do agree that as time went on, we seemed to get more nervous and were content to hoof the ball away, rather than pass it around calmly.
 
HudWiganFan said:
Blackpool have smaller attendances than ours, they beat Watford 3-1 two weeks ago. Millwall's attendances are about the same or marginally bigger, they beat Watford 3-0 last week.

I just don't buy that we can't compete against these teams. It just feels defeatist and if that's the mindset Leam is instilling in these players then no wonder we've won at home once since April.
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Both the examples you quote are established sides in this division HWF, we are still finding our feet, but were still good enough to hold them for 87 minutes. I agree with you about the finances, but I firmly believe that having players used to being at this level is an advantage to both Blackpool and Millwall.
 
Didn’t think it was a bad performance- but to counter that we never looked liked scoring. We didnt deserve to lose and a draw would have been a fair result. Given midweek shite I thought we put in a shift so credit to the players for their effort. Thought cousins was motm, followed by Shinnie and Jones who commanded his box.

I’m pissed ( central beer festival never disappoints ) but Moonay don’t recall us deserving a penalty or hitting post in first half????? You maybe right, probably had too much.

Sad to say but we look like a team nailed on for relegation. Hopefully can pick up a win before World Cup break and reset as desperately need it.
 
jeffs right said:
Negative for most of the season has been McClean. He just isn't good enough for this level although there are others who also fit that bill.
Got to feel terribly sorry for Leam as he was totally let down by the owners in the summer transfer market however through with some of his tactics and selections he hasnt helped himself at times.
We will be relegated if something is not done in January.
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Not sure he was let down Jeff, the shenanigans of this week notwithstanding….we simply can’t afford to splash out ….either they haven’t got that kind of money or they have but realise that spending it and making the corresponding long term commitments on wages that big signings command would kill us in the medium term….we can’t end up back where we were two years ago.

Re the comments about Blackpool and Millwall they are fair …to an extent… Luton are a similar example… the key though is staying up the first season and building gradually.
Remember the COVID season where we were shafted into relegation by the HK con men….Luton were fresh up that season and were ‘dead in the water at New Year’ before they started to string results together from Feb/March and finally stayed up only at or near ‘the death’ …they haven’t looked back since ….and with only 9,000 regulars ….let’s not deny we are in the same boat.
A Whelan funded spending spree above and beyond our natural means was a blast…but it’s gone …and it ain’t coming back.
 
ZAKKY said:
We seem to have lost that seige mentally at home. What worries me is that most of these players are out of contract in summer where is the money to replace and upgrade them
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I'm not sure on the money aspect. I don't think any of us are.

If we stay up, they'd need to renew a bunch of contracts with so many on expiring deals. Then we'll have to replace all the loanees plus one-year rentals like Nyambe. Then you've got the likes of Wyke, Magennis, Shinnie, Power, Darikwa, Naylor, Tilt, McClean, Bennett all hurtling into their 30s who will need replacing soon with younger players. A necessary consequence of leaning on experience to get out of League One being you've got to replace them all within a couple of years at Championship level which is costly business.

And if we go down, they'll have to stump up cash to account for the 6 million or so lost in TV revenue and we're not exactly asset rich with so many of our better players older or on the aforementioned expiring contracts. We'd have to ship a few but who is there to ship? Thelo and Lang are the only ones I can think of that we could get cash for in League One. Scully? £3.50 and a half-eaten bag of quavers maybe.
 
HudWiganFan said:
Blackpool have smaller attendances than ours, they beat Watford 3-1 two weeks ago. Millwall's attendances are about the same or marginally bigger, they beat Watford 3-0 last week.

I just don't buy that we can't compete against these teams. It just feels defeatist and if that's the mindset Leam is instilling in these players then no wonder we've won at home once since April.
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So in essence what your saying Hudds is that your crowd / attendances dictate what the results will be......😉, well that's what I read from ur post, we competed with Watford for a whole 10 / 15 mins then LR thot we cud garner a point by going defensive. As to our home form, down to LR imo as he sets us up far too defensive.
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
Both the examples you quote are established sides in this division HWF, we are still finding our feet, but were still good enough to hold them for 87 minutes. I agree with you about the finances, but I firmly believe that having players used to being at this level is an advantage to both Blackpool and Millwall.
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Well Rotherham's attendances are smaller than ours, they spent less than us in the window and they at least picked up a point and scored at home vs Watford. They also put four past Reading who are tipped by many for promotion and are in the top-half. I think we've only scored five or six in nine games at home combined this season.

I thought we battled well but their keeper ultimately didn't have a save to make again and we had one shot on target for probably the fourth or fifth time at home this season even though Watford were nothing special at all. It is 100% possible to win these games at least once every 5 or 6 outings at the DW and the brutal reality is we're going to have to beat some of these 'established' teams at some point to stay up. We proved against QPR we can more than match good teams in this league! Our spend in the summer of 2018 was pretty slim, much of our side retained its core League One DNA and we still put up much, much better home performances that season than this.

I just don't think we should be talking up sides like Watford like they're some unbeatable behemoth even though they've only won 6 from 16 this season. Most teams have more money and experience than us at this level, at least two-thirds so, unless we ditch the negative, overly-respectful attitude to the opposition we will never stick in this league.
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
TBF Jock, I am in the opposite camp to you.

I thought the performance level from us was decent and we did try to get the passing game going. The first ten to fifteen minutes we succeeded and looked good, and this is where we differ, you say we went defensive, I would say that Watford got their act together and pressed high forcing us to go long as we don't have the quality to break the press.

For me this was a game of quality vs triers, the latter being what we are, whereas Watford still have a lot of PL quality in their side. This was evident in the way they played around us using one touch football to create space and stretched the play with wide players who were always available to receive the ball when we put them under pressure.

With the players we have we have to play at our best every game, and even then, we are not guaranteed a win when we come up against quality players. We all knew this was going to be a tough season and so it is proving to be. I still believe we have the ability to win games through sheer effort and togetherness and that we will survive, but we need to be picking up points against the teams around us, and so the Stoke game on Wednesday becomes an important game as they are only above us on goal difference.
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Opposite camp fair enough, n will say yep we def matched if not bettered them in the first 10 mins but to say that Watford got their act together belies the fact that at times we had 7 ....yes 7 at the back, that imo is not Watford getting their act together but us dropping far far too deep. We then set up NOT to lose and were unable to reverse that mindset when we went behind. I honestly thot prior to the game we'd be schooled at footy n possession with probably a 3/4 nil defeat but as we kicked off n the first 10min I was optimistic....if n it's a big IF, we'd carried on like we did in the first 10 min I believe we cuda got something from this game but sadly we went ultra cautious and it cost us 1 possibly 3 points...imo😉
 
Made in Wigan said:
I’m pissed ( central beer festival never disappoints ) but Moonay don’t recall us deserving a penalty or hitting post in first half????? You maybe right, probably had too much.
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I got it wrong ... two separate incidents. Post on 12 seconds You don't see from this, but they played a replay from a different angle in the stadium), penalty on 57 seconds.
 
moonay said:
I got it wrong ... two separate incidents. Post on 12 seconds You don't see from this, but they played a replay from a different angle in the stadium), penalty on 57 seconds.
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I think it was from the cross or corner when Keane’s header just missed or hit the post ….as the cross came over one of our men was wrestled to the ground in an identical fashion to Naylor in the latter stages at QPR….nothing given.
 
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