The VAR / Refereeing Thread
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muttley
Alert Team
The game needs tough love, just so it can get back to be entertaining again. The skill has been supressed by the dark arts and the biggest root cause is the officiating. Once every dark art is clamped down on, we're in for a football treat as the techniques of the players are still top drawer.
Watching the Wolves match , and the Man City match , and taking the season into consideration , there has to be a case of bringing a charge of Not Fit For Purpose against the PGMOL.
The Doku challenge , the Modder challenge .
The general standard of refereeing .
It’s not like they are one off incidents . It’s happening every week .
In what scenario can the Doku challenge be seen as lawful, as not dangerous ?
Did not one official, and there are about six of them , for fuck sake , not see Modder run at speed , launch himself , off the ground and go in studs first against Nico Williams ankle .
Well , in actual fact , the ref did see it , because he cautioned him for it , which is tantamount , if the ref knows the Laws of the Game , to saying to the player , don’t do that again or I will remove you from the match .
What is that about .
And VAR sanctioned it .
Pundits have been saying that Michael fucking Oliver didn’t see the Doku challenge , if that is the case , he has no right to be out there in charge of such a high profile game , given that he was only five yards away .
Does anyone know how many apologies Howard Webb has given out this season . I can only find data up to October last year .
Something has to be done , it’s ruining the game .
The Doku challenge , the Modder challenge .
The general standard of refereeing .
It’s not like they are one off incidents . It’s happening every week .
In what scenario can the Doku challenge be seen as lawful, as not dangerous ?
Did not one official, and there are about six of them , for fuck sake , not see Modder run at speed , launch himself , off the ground and go in studs first against Nico Williams ankle .
Well , in actual fact , the ref did see it , because he cautioned him for it , which is tantamount , if the ref knows the Laws of the Game , to saying to the player , don’t do that again or I will remove you from the match .
What is that about .
And VAR sanctioned it .
Pundits have been saying that Michael fucking Oliver didn’t see the Doku challenge , if that is the case , he has no right to be out there in charge of such a high profile game , given that he was only five yards away .
Does anyone know how many apologies Howard Webb has given out this season . I can only find data up to October last year .
Something has to be done , it’s ruining the game .
Greavswasthegreatest
Vital Football Legend
Not sure how the powers that be can fine and admonish Managers for bringing the game into disrepute when they question, in most cases, valid complaints about decisions in the game when refs and var do it constantly Walt?
TQ2Spurs
Vital Champions League
These decisions are affecting outcomes as well, Havertz should have had a second yellow for simulation against Brentford and would therefore not have been on the pitch to score the winning goal. Brentford would have had a one man advantage for around 15-20 minutes I think.
Can any one justify the caution that Sarr received for the tangle of legs against Villa ? .
Referees now ignore :
The push in the back when opposing players are going for a high ball;
Foul throws when one leg is raised as the ball is released;
Pushing , pulling , shoving by both sides in the six yard box at corners , depite stopping play to warn the protagonists to stop;
Time wasting , despite all the fanfare at the start of the season which promised to cut it out , and add time on at the end ;
Players gaining ten yards at throw ins ;
Players gathering around a ref in protest at decisions ;
Blatant red and yellow card challenges in order not to spoil the game ! ;
Offside positions which result in the attacking side gaining a corner kick . The offending side gain out of being offside ;
Not in every case , but the majority of simulation actions ;
Players using foul and abusive language at the referee and assistants ;
Players obstructing the free passage of goalkeepers at set pieces ;
But ….. they will never , ever ignore the micro movement of the ball when a free kick is taken , or players removing shirts after scoring a goal , no matter what other goal Celebration is used , including crowd incitement.
Their actions , referees , need a complete reorganisation , the joke they create at attacking free kicks has to be stopped .
The joke they create in all aspects of the game needs re assessment
Why do they think it is the right thing to delay the taking of a free kick just outside the area , until the offending side has organised their defence INCLUDING THE POSITIONING OF SOMEONE LAYING DOWN BEHIND THE WALL .
Fouling somebody on the edge of the area , commiting an illegal act , actually gives the defending side an advantage , which is condoned by those that should be eradicating it .
It is all pathetic .
Yet it is all accepted …. and they are ruining the game .
Referees now ignore :
The push in the back when opposing players are going for a high ball;
Foul throws when one leg is raised as the ball is released;
Pushing , pulling , shoving by both sides in the six yard box at corners , depite stopping play to warn the protagonists to stop;
Time wasting , despite all the fanfare at the start of the season which promised to cut it out , and add time on at the end ;
Players gaining ten yards at throw ins ;
Players gathering around a ref in protest at decisions ;
Blatant red and yellow card challenges in order not to spoil the game ! ;
Offside positions which result in the attacking side gaining a corner kick . The offending side gain out of being offside ;
Not in every case , but the majority of simulation actions ;
Players using foul and abusive language at the referee and assistants ;
Players obstructing the free passage of goalkeepers at set pieces ;
But ….. they will never , ever ignore the micro movement of the ball when a free kick is taken , or players removing shirts after scoring a goal , no matter what other goal Celebration is used , including crowd incitement.
Their actions , referees , need a complete reorganisation , the joke they create at attacking free kicks has to be stopped .
The joke they create in all aspects of the game needs re assessment
Why do they think it is the right thing to delay the taking of a free kick just outside the area , until the offending side has organised their defence INCLUDING THE POSITIONING OF SOMEONE LAYING DOWN BEHIND THE WALL .
Fouling somebody on the edge of the area , commiting an illegal act , actually gives the defending side an advantage , which is condoned by those that should be eradicating it .
It is all pathetic .
Yet it is all accepted …. and they are ruining the game .
TQ2Spurs
Vital Champions League
And the one that really riles me...............allowing penalty takes to stop and stutter in their run up, the law states that it should be uninterrupted. Rashfords penalty at the weekend being a good example.
You mean the LAW , that only Son has been penalised for , by Tierney against Rochdale in the cup game at Wembley . He was cautioned for it and they were given a free kick !!!!!
Makes my blood boil as well
muttley
Alert Team
We should never accept it. It's our game.
TQ2Spurs
Vital Champions League
And placing the ball outside the quadrant when taking corners, seems to be accepted as long as it casts a shadow on the line!
So....how exactly are we going to change it?
Just playing devil's advocate a bit Mutt, you know damn well I hate this VAR shit and the degradation in quality of ref'ing.
muttley
Alert Team
So without footballer stakeholders getting stuck into PGMOL, we wouldn't have got to where we got to today. The fans calling into radio stations, managers constantly speaking up, broadcasting company pundits and clubs even making public statements has got us this far. Momentum has been building for 3-5 years and if you remember rightly I was always advocating that we should all keep shouting until the net circles enough to drive change.
Have a think back to what pressure Mike Riley started that PGMOL job under. Next to none. They cheated the KPI's, they arrogantly made their decisions and they were answerable to nobody until late in his tenure. Therefore, he fell on his sword. Then Webb had to come in and removed a third of that refereeing team. He continues to cull and, to be fair to Howard, he is visible and vocal. It's a tough job because the PGMOL structure is still a broken one. We still don't get the best of the best in the elite pool but they are out there.
Still though, FIFA and IFAB are more interested in restraining dissenting voices rather than getting the games officiated correctly. They're more interesting in punishing players and managers for indiscretions rather than look in the mirror and enforce change to officiating. I've said this a few times but Webb should only accept anything from IFAB that makes sense. He should feel empowered by all of us to decline any proposed changes until they start performing in their central role. Instead, he should focus on the laws of the game and get his guys and girls to administer them. This isn't just about VAR. That's a minor thing in the grand scheme of something much bigger that is really broken.
anyone think it’s weird that the FA can’t see a common denominator here . The fourth time a ref has sparked outrage towards them .
Reid gets fined £5000 and the club gets fined £75,000 for the incompetence of a referee. ……….
And Reid was only saying what everyone else in the ground thought , except the bindippers , who amazingly forgot the argument that the game should be replayed if the ref makes a mistake as important as to change the outcome of a game …….
Nottingham Forest first-team coach Steven Reid has been given an extended two-match touchline ban and fined £5,000 after being found guilty of misconduct by the Football Association.
Reid confronted referee Paul Tierney following Forest's defeat by Liverpool earlier this month.
It was found he had used an expletive phrase towards Tierney on more than three occasions.
Forest have also been fined £75,000 for their part in the incident.
The Premier League side were punished for failing to ensure their players and technical staff "did not behave in an improper way after the final whistle". The club admitted the charge.
The incident followed Darwin Nunez's 99th-minute winner at the City Ground.
The home side were left incensed by Tierney's decision to hand possession back to Liverpool via a drop-ball, from which Nunez went on to score - albeit almost two minutes after the game re-started.
Mark Clattenburg, Forest's referee analyst, criticised the decision post-match, telling BBC Radio 5 Live: "If the referee stops the game, he has to give the ball back to the team in possession. That was Forest."
In his report of the incident, Tierney said: "Following the final whistle I was surrounded by members of Nottingham Forest's substitutes and backroom staff on the field of play.
"One of those who approached me was Steven Reid, who was not listed on the teamsheet.
"He asked me about a decision and I said to him that I will speak to him inside and not outside on the field of play. He then continued to question me and I repeated that I would speak to him inside. He then said, 'it's the same every week, you [expletive]'."
Tierney showed him a red card for his comment, which Reid admitted was abusive and insulting. However, Reid, 43, denied that he continued to use such language towards Tierney after he was sent off.
But Tierney said Reid went on to repeatedly swear and call him the expletive term at least twice more as they left the field of play, while reports from the assistant referees said that Reid "continued to confront" Tierney. The charge was proven.
After the match, Forest confirmed their owner Evangelos Marinakis did approach Tierney after the match but dismissed reports that he had to be restrained.
It is the fourth time in 18 months that Forest have faced a sanction for surrounding a match official.
In its conclusion, the regulatory commission that imposed the latest sanction said "future breaches of the rules may be treated more severely".
Reid gets fined £5000 and the club gets fined £75,000 for the incompetence of a referee. ……….
And Reid was only saying what everyone else in the ground thought , except the bindippers , who amazingly forgot the argument that the game should be replayed if the ref makes a mistake as important as to change the outcome of a game …….
Nottingham Forest first-team coach Steven Reid has been given an extended two-match touchline ban and fined £5,000 after being found guilty of misconduct by the Football Association.
Reid confronted referee Paul Tierney following Forest's defeat by Liverpool earlier this month.
It was found he had used an expletive phrase towards Tierney on more than three occasions.
Forest have also been fined £75,000 for their part in the incident.
The Premier League side were punished for failing to ensure their players and technical staff "did not behave in an improper way after the final whistle". The club admitted the charge.
The incident followed Darwin Nunez's 99th-minute winner at the City Ground.
What happened?
Forest had control of the ball outside the penalty area when the game was stopped following a head injury to Liverpool defender Ibrahima Konate in second-half stoppage time.The home side were left incensed by Tierney's decision to hand possession back to Liverpool via a drop-ball, from which Nunez went on to score - albeit almost two minutes after the game re-started.
Mark Clattenburg, Forest's referee analyst, criticised the decision post-match, telling BBC Radio 5 Live: "If the referee stops the game, he has to give the ball back to the team in possession. That was Forest."
In his report of the incident, Tierney said: "Following the final whistle I was surrounded by members of Nottingham Forest's substitutes and backroom staff on the field of play.
"One of those who approached me was Steven Reid, who was not listed on the teamsheet.
"He asked me about a decision and I said to him that I will speak to him inside and not outside on the field of play. He then continued to question me and I repeated that I would speak to him inside. He then said, 'it's the same every week, you [expletive]'."
Tierney showed him a red card for his comment, which Reid admitted was abusive and insulting. However, Reid, 43, denied that he continued to use such language towards Tierney after he was sent off.
But Tierney said Reid went on to repeatedly swear and call him the expletive term at least twice more as they left the field of play, while reports from the assistant referees said that Reid "continued to confront" Tierney. The charge was proven.
After the match, Forest confirmed their owner Evangelos Marinakis did approach Tierney after the match but dismissed reports that he had to be restrained.
It is the fourth time in 18 months that Forest have faced a sanction for surrounding a match official.
In its conclusion, the regulatory commission that imposed the latest sanction said "future breaches of the rules may be treated more severely".
This was their statement before …and we all know they lost that game .
Isn’t it weird that they didn’t issue a statement after the Forest match …..
“Liverpool Football Club acknowledges PGMOL’s admission of their failures last night. It is clear that the correct application of the laws of the game did not occur, resulting in sporting integrity being undermined.
We fully accept the pressures that match officials work under but these pressures are supposed to be alleviated, not exacerbated, by the existence and implementation of VAR.
It is therefore unsatisfactory that sufficient time was not afforded to allow the correct decision to be made and that there was no subsequent intervention.
That such failings have already been categorised as “significant human error” is also unacceptable. Any and all outcomes should be established only by the review and with full transparency.
This is vital for the reliability of future decision-making as it applies to all clubs with learnings being used to make improvements to processes in order to ensure this kind of situation cannot occur again.
In the meantime, we will explore the range of options available, given the clear need for escalation and resolution.”
Isn’t it weird that they didn’t issue a statement after the Forest match …..
“Liverpool Football Club acknowledges PGMOL’s admission of their failures last night. It is clear that the correct application of the laws of the game did not occur, resulting in sporting integrity being undermined.
We fully accept the pressures that match officials work under but these pressures are supposed to be alleviated, not exacerbated, by the existence and implementation of VAR.
It is therefore unsatisfactory that sufficient time was not afforded to allow the correct decision to be made and that there was no subsequent intervention.
That such failings have already been categorised as “significant human error” is also unacceptable. Any and all outcomes should be established only by the review and with full transparency.
This is vital for the reliability of future decision-making as it applies to all clubs with learnings being used to make improvements to processes in order to ensure this kind of situation cannot occur again.
In the meantime, we will explore the range of options available, given the clear need for escalation and resolution.”
Pompey Yid
Vital Champions League
Putting it more simple Walt....what a load of crap n bollocks! by the FA and its Refs.
NF's coach was correct! full stop.
NF's coach was correct! full stop.
TQ2Spurs
Vital Champions League
It's a shame really that Reid's justified rant has been used by PGMOL to switch the spotlight on to his abusive language and away from the real issue which is the incompetence of the officials.
muttley
Alert Team
It can only be a temporary diversion though. Everyone now knows that PGMOL is a major problem in our game. There's too much noise about them.
Pompey Yid
Vital Champions League
I really do hope you right there muttley, cos it can only be for the good of the game.
If it was one mistake , every now and then , we would all be understanding .
My Chargehand , when I was an apprentice, always said “ it’s human to make a mistake , just don’t make the same mistake twice “
But it’s not mistakes these people are making , they are ignoring the Laws of the game .
The very Laws they had to learn in order to pass the test to become a referee.
There is no law that says that once you have been given your referees badge , you are now at liberty to ignore the laws , or interpret them in any way you like .
Show me where it says that ?
How many times have we heard a stupid commentator say , “‘oh , he is letting the game flow “
No he is not , he is ignoring the laws .
“ it’s a London Derby and we all know the game is played differently “
No it’s not , the Laws still apply just the same .
It’s just that the referee is bottling decisions.
The referee should not have any leeway in how he controls the game , the minute that was allowed to happen was the minute they started to ruin the game .
And now they have VAR to help them to royally fuck the game up .
And I hate them for it .
My Chargehand , when I was an apprentice, always said “ it’s human to make a mistake , just don’t make the same mistake twice “
But it’s not mistakes these people are making , they are ignoring the Laws of the game .
The very Laws they had to learn in order to pass the test to become a referee.
There is no law that says that once you have been given your referees badge , you are now at liberty to ignore the laws , or interpret them in any way you like .
Show me where it says that ?
How many times have we heard a stupid commentator say , “‘oh , he is letting the game flow “
No he is not , he is ignoring the laws .
“ it’s a London Derby and we all know the game is played differently “
No it’s not , the Laws still apply just the same .
It’s just that the referee is bottling decisions.
The referee should not have any leeway in how he controls the game , the minute that was allowed to happen was the minute they started to ruin the game .
And now they have VAR to help them to royally fuck the game up .
And I hate them for it .
