The Super League Discussion

[Gary Onedaysoon]

As others I am of the opinion, this is only round 1, I believe this was brought up as an attempted "kick in the balls" for UEFA.

It has been said what type of corporation UEFA is, bloated Fat Pigs etc, maybe just maybe they will have a look at themselves in the mirror, which I doubt because all n sundry have fell hook line n sinker for the "Greedy Clubs syndrome", the Greedy Club in all this is UEFA! full effin stop.

I heard on Sky news late last night when all the 6 had pulled out, very well planned, reading/listening sentences like...wake up call for UEFA...need to listen and learn...this ain't over if they do not listen and learn, there were other lines but that will do me for now.

Also leading this attack on the 6 Big English clubs is Sky who if that Super lge went ahead had the most to lose, another bunch of Fat bloated Pigs.

Why does Sky have the most to lose from the Super League? I would have thought BT Sport are in that position given they have exclusive rights to the Champions League and the Europa League.

 

[Gary Onedaysoon]

The financial impact of Covid has made all these clubs hit the panic button.

Even for these 15 clubs it could well mean years of financial knife-edge controls. The Spainish clubs in particular know that financially they may now find themselves unable to compete; the oil rich clubs may now have been handed the ascendancy for years to come.

As for us, this may well mean that we agree outside investment that means that Levy has to cede control and for it to become a more balanced board - which is why the recent deal I reported on failed.

For Spurs if we do not find that outside investment now, we could be only getting by again hunting for bargains, which means dreams of glory that accompanied the new stadium as it generate revs to compete with the big boys, will quickly turn to dust.

I understand completely why faced with being in the super league and pissing out as opposed to risk being outside pissing in was a decision we could not afford miss.

There is an interesting backdrop to what made the Chav's fold first and if true, we will all suffer the consequences as time passes and Russian influence inside UEFA will grow to a point that they may well be a malign influence for years to come.

So why is it going to take so long to recover? Let's say we can get full capacity early into the new season, that's 18 months without paying fans. Yet the talk is of years to recover. I know that's a simplistic view but I'm not following the longer term projections.

 

[Departed]

So why is it going to take so long to recover? Let's say we can get full capacity early into the new season, that's 18 months without paying fans. Yet the talk is of years to recover. I know that's a simplistic view but I'm not following the longer term projections.

I am not certain what our margins are right now but they are most likely lower than 20% which means what I say below is optimistic.

It takes roughly $5 of revenues to pay off $1 of debt, and that negates any profit. We have AT LEAST 300 million in additional debt. So we need an additional 1.5 billion over prepandemic revenues to deal with that debt and not affect our regular operations. Not going to happen overnight.

If we don't get those additional revenues the debt repayment will come out of normal revenues and impact wage budgets directly.

 

[Departed]

Just a nod to Meee, I completely underestimated the power of the social media backlash on the ESL. There were some high-level politics at play as well. PSG not wanting to be a smaller fish in a bigger pond had a lot to do with it and I SUSPECT had an influence on Chelsea.

However, don't drop your guard. This isn't going away. When a governing body is richer than most clubs there is a serious problem. UEFA now has a target on its back.

I can't say I am unhappy about this falling apart and the relegation promotion aspect being maintained. The one true competitive incentive in sport and the reason I love soccer and rugby. How else do you make the bottom of the table interesting?

The race for top 4 is BACK ON!!!!

 

[Spursex]

In amongst all this, let's also not paint the players as social warriors;

All football clubs have lost vast sums through this period, with our new stadium, it's even more painful for us.

Players have refused to take paycuts, even though they knew the clubs were hurting - the PFA and the agents have all refused point blank, in fact as contract situations have come up the agents/players have been demanding more!!!

The reason this situation has come about is because of the poor stability of ALL clubs caused by a massive and continuing demand to be paid more.

Of course, you can always argue that clubs should be more prudent when it comes to player deals - but Levy has tried to do that for the last 15 years and it's impossible to count the number of times he's been slagged off here for not acting the way other clubs have - we built a new academy, a new stadium that would give us sustainable growth in our revenues for decades to come - but fans have also demanded that we splash the cash and fuel high wages the same as every other club.

This decision to get on board the super league was driven by these realities.

The players have sucked the clubs dry and won't change anytime soon unless a percentage ceiling is enforced across all clubs for leagues for all competitions that will stop players demanding more and more - as they continue to do.

All of football is a hell of a financial state - and it's the players doing, and the clubs need to chase success because the fans believe 'success and silverware' is their right - no matter what the damage is.

 

[Pompey Yid]

In amongst all this, let's also not paint the players as social warriors;

All football clubs have lost vast sums through this period, with our new stadium, it's even more painful for us.

Players have refused to take paycuts, even though they knew the clubs were hurting - the PFA and the agents have all refused point blank, in fact as contract situations have come up the agents/players have been demanding more!!!

The reason this situation has come about is because of the poor stability of ALL clubs caused by a massive and continuing demand to be paid more.

Of course, you can always argue that clubs should be more prudent when it comes to player deals - but Levy has tried to do that for the last 15 years and it's impossible to count the number of times he's been slagged off here for not acting the way other clubs have - we built a new academy, a new stadium that would give us sustainable growth in our revenues for decades to come - but fans have also demanded that we splash the cash and fuel high wages the same as every other club.

This decision to get on board the super league was driven by these realities.

The players have sucked the clubs dry and won't change anytime soon unless a percentage ceiling is enforced across all clubs for leagues for all competitions that will stop players demanding more and more - as they continue to do.

All of football is a hell of a financial state - and it's the players doing, and the clubs need to chase success because the fans believe 'success and silverware' is their right - no matter what the damage is.

Ex, spot on, so bloody true, but you try telling that to some, esp the brainwashed.

 

[Nick Real Deal]

More comments including from John Barnes that the players wages are forcing financial fragility for clubs and something has to change.

 

[stupops]

More comments including from John Barnes that the players wages are forcing financial fragility for clubs and something has to change.

I take ex players with a pinch Nick.
If John Barnes were playing today he would be wanting more than his £200k a week he was on.

 

[Spursex]

More comments including from John Barnes that the players wages are forcing financial fragility for clubs and something has to change.

We have to bring in a percentage of revs wage cap, or clubs will simply end up imploding as both Barca and Real Madrid are in danger of doing - not that I have any sympathy for them because for years they forced transfer fees and wages up, that is until the oil rich clubs finally out-played them.

If the authorities of all levels of football don't do this after this mess, don't be surprised if this whole debacle comes back in another form far sooner than some think.

 

[muttley]

So if all players took a 50% pay cut would Sky cut the price of Sky Sports? Would BT follow suit with BT Sport? Nope, they would just take a higher profit and still drive down the price they pay the PL per game. In Sky's case, those profits would disappear off to the US.

It's always worth remembering the supply and demand model was totally destabilised by the broadcasting companies, not the players. I can agree that the players can help solve the problem here and now by being less greedy, but I don't blame them for taking their share of the monster that was created.

What we all need to happen is that all revenues go directly from the consumer (the fan) to the football club and a football tax is then applied to the clubs proportionately for the centralised things like The FA and grassroots contribution.

Just like the honest fan has to do walking through the turnstile, I would happily watch Spurs on TV if I knew my money was going straight to THFC. I will also be happy that THFC were paying way more than Leyton Orient on the football tax side, and that FIFA and UEFA had no part to play in these commercial arrangements.

 

[Pompey Yid]

So if all players took a 50% pay cut would Sky cut the price of Sky Sports? Would BT follow suit with BT Sport? Nope, they would just take a higher profit and still drive down the price they pay the PL per game. In Sky's case, those profits would disappear off to the US.

It's always worth remembering the supply and demand model was totally destabilised by the broadcasting companies, not the players. I can agree that the players can help solve the problem here and now by being less greedy, but I don't blame them for taking their share of the monster that was created.

What we all need to happen is that all revenues go directly from the consumer (the fan) to the football club and a football tax is then applied to the clubs proportionately for the centralised things like The FA and grassroots contribution.

Just like the honest fan has to do walking through the turnstile, I would happily watch Spurs on TV if I knew my money was going straight to THFC. I will also be happy that THFC were paying way more than Leyton Orient on the football tax side, and that FIFA and UEFA had no part to play in these commercial arrangements.

muttley I think no sorry! know that 100% of fans regardless of their club would entirely agree with your last para, the trouble is mate it is very simple, and simple things do not happen.

 

[Nick Real Deal]

I think we have the highest level of debt in Europe bar Man Utd. Utd probably have more ability to lower their debt quicker than us. They have a better squad and I'm not sure they need to spend much.

 

[muttley]

muttley I think no sorry! know that 100% of fans regardless of their club would entirely agree with your last para, the trouble is mate it is very simple, and simple things do not happen.

There is nothing new that needs to be invented from a technology perspective to implement my model. It was all built years ago and just needs configuring. Clubs just host the games and fans pay for connections. It doesn't matter whether it myself through a Spurs TV account or whether that is a Sky subscriber through their platform. It is still a connection for fee and we can all choose our favourite platform to consume a game, all airing at the same time. No restrictions on who can and cannot show the games. A level playing field.

In my opinion, this is now what the big clubs should do. Inform the PL and UEFA that even if they negotiate prices with the broadcasting companies on their behalf, they won't be there by the end of the 3-year contract anyway. They will be in a super league managing their own consumption.

 

[Real Deal]

If a crazy pandemic won't change how much football clubs earn nothing will.

After the last year the football world has had the perfect time to implement wage caps and transfer fee caps. But of course football lives in the bubble and refuses to change.

As Mutters says though it goes a lot further than that with BT and Sky.

I won't ever forget how greedy and woeful the top tier has acted.

 

[steveperryman]

In amongst all this, let's also not paint the players as social warriors;

All football clubs have lost vast sums through this period, with our new stadium, it's even more painful for us.

Players have refused to take paycuts, even though they knew the clubs were hurting - the PFA and the agents have all refused point blank, in fact as contract situations have come up the agents/players have been demanding more!!!

The reason this situation has come about is because of the poor stability of ALL clubs caused by a massive and continuing demand to be paid more.

Of course, you can always argue that clubs should be more prudent when it comes to player deals - but Levy has tried to do that for the last 15 years and it's impossible to count the number of times he's been slagged off here for not acting the way other clubs have - we built a new academy, a new stadium that would give us sustainable growth in our revenues for decades to come - but fans have also demanded that we splash the cash and fuel high wages the same as every other club.

This decision to get on board the super league was driven by these realities.

The players have sucked the clubs dry and won't change anytime soon unless a percentage ceiling is enforced across all clubs for leagues for all competitions that will stop players demanding more and more - as they continue to do.

All of football is a hell of a financial state - and it's the players doing, and the clubs need to chase success because the fans believe 'success and silverware' is their right - no matter what the damage is.

That's all true but he's been rewarded rather handsomely himself. Only a couple of years ago he was the highest paid chairman in the Premier League. Didn't stop him trying to furlough his hourly paid staff, which showed a complete lack of judgement on his part.

At the very least Levy should step aside from all footballing matters. He's had his day in the sun, it's time for us to ring the changes.

 

[Departed]

I think we have the highest level of debt in Europe bar Man Utd. Utd probably have more ability to lower their debt quicker than us. They have a better squad and I'm not sure they need to spend much.

We may have the highest level of debt but it is largely secured by real assets, not phantom "commercial "values that clubs such as West Ham are living on.

We have more flexibility than many of them in refinancing. However, that will force spending constraints.

If the club really needed to they could sell the stadium and include a 100-year lease as first tenant. But that would make us a hollow organization.

 

[meee93]

In amongst all this, let's also not paint the players as social warriors;

All football clubs have lost vast sums through this period, with our new stadium, it's even more painful for us.

Players have refused to take paycuts, even though they knew the clubs were hurting - the PFA and the agents have all refused point blank, in fact as contract situations have come up the agents/players have been demanding more!!!

The reason this situation has come about is because of the poor stability of ALL clubs caused by a massive and continuing demand to be paid more.

Of course, you can always argue that clubs should be more prudent when it comes to player deals - but Levy has tried to do that for the last 15 years and it's impossible to count the number of times he's been slagged off here for not acting the way other clubs have - we built a new academy, a new stadium that would give us sustainable growth in our revenues for decades to come - but fans have also demanded that we splash the cash and fuel high wages the same as every other club.

This decision to get on board the super league was driven by these realities.

The players have sucked the clubs dry and won't change anytime soon unless a percentage ceiling is enforced across all clubs for leagues for all competitions that will stop players demanding more and more - as they continue to do.

All of football is a hell of a financial state - and it's the players doing, and the clubs need to chase success because the fans believe 'success and silverware' is their right - no matter what the damage is.

You if go to your boss and ask for a pay rise and they give it to you. Then a couple of years later the company goes bust. People don't turn round and blame the employee for asking for a pay rise. They blame the people who were running the financial side of things.

Levy has managed that side of things remarkably well for Spurs over the last 20 years and that is why I support his decisions most of the time.

On the pandemic payments, are the clubs not receiving money from TV companies? I thought that was the significant driver in revenue for the top tier clubs. Whilst the games are going ahead and the clubs are getting that income, why shouldn't the players receive their salary? I can understand pushing for them to take a delayed payment during the initial stoppage but after that I think they are entitled to their salary now.

 

[Departed]

You if go to your boss and ask for a pay rise and they give it to you. Then a couple of years later the company goes bust. People don't turn round and blame the employee for asking for a pay rise. They blame the people who were running the financial side of things.

Levy has managed that side of things remarkably well for Spurs over the last 20 years and that is why I support his decisions most of the time.

On the pandemic payments, are the clubs not receiving money from TV companies? I thought that was the significant driver in revenue for the top tier clubs. Whilst the games are going ahead and the clubs are getting that income, why shouldn't the players receive their salary? I can understand pushing for them to take a delayed payment during the initial stoppage but after that I think they are entitled to their salary now.

Let's say Spurs normal income is 100 million.

Of that 100 million, let's say that revenues including TV revenues, but NOT game-day revenue, equals 80 million.

Let's say our expenses are 85 million.

We are running at a 5 million annual loss.

So game day revenues push us into profitability. In our case stadium costs were supposed to be offset by other events as well that in this example I haven't accounted for because it will actually make it worse, which has happened.

Our losses will be bigger than 5 million over the last year but where do you cut? I would bet Levy isn't taking any income.

Salaries are the one area that can be cut in this situation. Everyone talks about the greed of the football clubs. GREED? Most of them were barely surviving before the pandemic. We are losing money and that, for as long as we can convince the bankers to allow it, will turn to debt. So we are taking on debt to pay players' salaries.

Not a good business plan under any circumstances. Player intransigence and complete lack of understanding of the situation could be the downfall of a lot of clubs in the next 5 years as they fail to make their way out of the Covid inflicted financial crunch..

 

[Nick Real Deal]

A report suggests Spurs may have had an expensive week. 8 mil lost on being part of the Superleague plus paying off Jose. Possibly over 20 mil. I don't know if the Superleague will come after Spurs for compensation ?

 

[Walthamstow wanderer]

Let's say Spurs normal income is 100 million.

Of that 100 million, let's say that revenues including TV revenues, but NOT game-day revenue, equals 80 million.

Let's say our expenses are 85 million.

We are running at a 5 million annual loss.

So game day revenues push us into profitability. In our case stadium costs were supposed to be offset by other events as well that in this example I haven't accounted for because it will actually make it worse, which has happened.

Our losses will be bigger than 5 million over the last year but where do you cut? I would bet Levy isn't taking any income.

Salaries are the one area that can be cut in this situation. Everyone talks about the greed of the football clubs. GREED? Most of them were barely surviving before the pandemic. We are losing money and that, for as long as we can convince the bankers to allow it, will turn to debt. So we are taking on debt to pay players' salaries.

Not a good business plan under any circumstances. Player intransigence and complete lack of understanding of the situation could be the downfall of a lot of clubs in the next 5 years as they fail to make their way out of the Covid inflicted financial crunch..

Remind me again how much Joe Lewis is worth ?
Wasn’t it reported in the media this week to be 1.9 billion ?
I’m well aware that business are supposed to make profits , but let’s keep it in perspective . .
How much profit did the club make in the preceding five years .
How many times have “we “ ended up losing money in the transfer market .
Everybody is feeling the current financial crises , even us pensioners .
Levy has done a fantastic job running the club , nobody can deny that .
Sacking Poch and Mourhino has cost him dearly .
If we have “only lost “ the amount you have indicated , then the club have done well .

Or have I got all this wrong ,