The bye elections (n/g)

[antonpage]

As far back as I can remember by elections always bring out a protest vote when the government is doing badly
This lot have really plunged the depths and I was very surprised they held on to one of the three up for grabs
How people vote next election is anyone’s guess are Labour or the Lib Dem’s a real alternative or is it just hot air
I don’t expect the Tories to be re elected as they’ve been abysmal but I personally don’t have any confidence in the alternatives

There's no real reason to doubt the alternative but equally there is no reason for you to be skipping to the ballot box to vote for them either.

The toris love the whole "the alternative are worse or at least as bad" but honestly what reason do we have to believe they are worse? Im going on the fact its so bad at the moment and they have no solutions. They just break emergency glass every by election or awful poll that comes out. Its a mix of the joke note, Corbin used to be in charge, unlimited immigrants will come over, they have no plan and coalition of chaos. Its not credible.

Now if you dont like Labour I'm not suggesting that's not credible but honestly they wont do worse, the bar is so low they cant. I'm actually hopeful of some grownups running the show but I understand others are not. It just wont be worse and I think objectively that will show through.

 

[MedwayModernist]

Now if you dont like Labour I'm not suggesting that's not credible but honestly they wont do worse, the bar is so low they cant. I'm actually hopeful of some grownups running the show but I understand others are not. It just wont be worse and I think objectively that will show through.

I'm a card carrying member, but I've got to say I've not been that impressed with Keir lately. That said the thing this country BADLY needs for a little while is adults in charge again. Serious people who understand the issues and are competent enough to try and rectify them - not the insane clown posse we've had for the last 4 years going on thirteen.

 

[RotherhitheGill]

Feels like Starmer is trying to appeal to everybody and alienating all of us in the process. Please try and hold the line on something and stop flip flopping about (eg ULEZ, I live in central London and it's essential that it's introduced).

 

[Therealwaldo]

Starmer is ruthlessly concentrating on one thing. Winning a general election. Labour in the past have too often concentrated on policies which, although probably right, were too easily open to attack from a largely hostile media. Starmer is cutting off one press attack line after another. That might make him less attractive to some but the polls suggest that it’s the right strategy for now. In power, there will be more room to expand on policies.

 

[shotshy]

Interesting in the Guardian this morning.
In Totnes, they are trying to establish a unity candidate so that only one stands against the sitting Tory.
Organiser is George Monbiot.
So forming a two horse race.

 

[GillsBluenose]

Feels like Starmer is trying to appeal to everybody and alienating all of us in the process. Please try and hold the line on something and stop flip flopping about (eg ULEZ, I live in central London and it's essential that it's introduced).

He is trying to appeal to every floating voter but alienating a lot of the core in his own party. and in no way represents socialism or the struggle to lessen inequality.

I am still hoping he gains the most seats at the next election but not an overfall majority so his power is limited, while kicking the Tories out.

Not a great position but sadly the best available as it stands.

 

[wxgill]

I have always been a labour voter but not under Corbin and Starmer.

David Milliband is the only person who can make them credible again.

I've been pointlessly voting Green for many years now.

 

[ian08040]

I’m all but 74 voted all my life,who warrants my vote at this precise time Nobody

 

[Breckland]

I think it's a minority in the PLP who identify primarily as "socialists' these days - many would prefer the term social democrats. When the party abandoned clause 4 it was in recognition that the mixed economy was here to stay and the dream of a workers-led democracy had died.
Confronting the reality of a burgeoning, affluent middle class was a challenge for Labour, with the likes of arch egotists Derek Hatton and Arthur Scargill ( who incidentally was absolutely correct in his forecast about what Thatcher would do to the mining industry) and the wooly hats of the SDP pulling in different directions.
Claret quaffing Roy Jenkins was hardly the archetypal class warrior and I remember having a stand up row at party conference with his then PPS Roger Darlington who could see nothing wrong in flogging off all the nation's council housing stock.
People who remember the Wilson era Labour Party as some kind of socialist led template are miles of the mark . Apart from Barbara Castle the power was in the hands of the moderates. Strangely enough the Trades Unions were often a drag on the party, they, their funds and the appalling 'block-vote' party conference system kept us in the grip of an all-male bunch of bigots.
Starmer is not exciting or revolutionary but he is generally trustworthy and sensible. He is what we need right now.

 

[Jerryattrick]

I think it's a minority in the PLP who identify primarily as "socialists' these days - many would prefer the term social democrats. When the party abandoned clause 4 it was in recognition that the mixed economy was here to stay and the dream of a workers-led democracy had died.
Confronting the reality of a burgeoning, affluent middle class was a challenge for Labour, with the likes of arch egotists Derek Hatton and Arthur Scargill ( who incidentally was absolutely correct in his forecast about what Thatcher would do to the mining industry) and the wooly hats of the SDP pulling in different directions.
Claret quaffing Roy Jenkins was hardly the archetypal class warrior and I remember having a stand up row at party conference with his then PPS Roger Darlington who could see nothing wrong in flogging off all the nation's council housing stock.
People who remember the Wilson era Labour Party as some kind of socialist led template are miles of the mark . Apart from Barbara Castle the power was in the hands of the moderates. Strangely enough the Trades Unions were often a drag on the party, they, their funds and the appalling 'block-vote' party conference system kept us in the grip of an all-male bunch of bigots.
Starmer is not exciting or revolutionary but he is generally trustworthy and sensible. He is what we need right now.

So you are anti male lol.

 

[GillsBluenose]

However you may vote, most of society's problems highlighted by the media are caused by inequality and the ever increasing have and have not divide, so social justice has never been more needed in my opinion, whether you call it socialism or not.

Even the affluent middle class (if they have any conscience) must be alarmed by the stories of families crammed in to properties too small and too expensive while the ownership of second homes continues to grow, mental health deterioration often due to the inability to pay ever growing energy and household bills plus nurses, teachers, postmen and rail workers being forced to strike just to cope with inflation and stand still. Foodbanks are reporting a sharp drop in donations which had plastered over some cracks until recently.

These are the sort of conditions that shame a civilised society and make people desperate, increasing financial hardship and, inevitably, crime. The affluent middle class are not impervious to that.

 

[SE1_Gills]

The whole ULEZ thing drives me mad, it's trying to get cleaner fucking air ffs.

I live in Bromley on a busy-ish road and have a 9 month old son, I'm very fucking keen for ULEZ to pass so he doesn't have to breath in smog his entire life.

It's one of the reasons I'm moving out of town.

 

[SE1_Gills]

I have always been a labour voter but not under Corbin and Starmer.

David Milliband is the only person who can make them credible again.

I've been pointlessly voting Green for many years now.

I agree about Dave Milliband.

It's important that we have credible opposition regardless of whoever is living at number 10, keeps them "honest"

 

[GillsBluenose]

I agree about Dave Milliband.

It's important that we have credible opposition regardless of whoever is living at number 10, keeps them "honest"

David Milliband would probably have had more integrity but is much closer to the centrist Blair/Starmer/quasi-Tory/Capitalist side of the party so I am not sure how much he would have been able to repair all the damage the Tories have caused.

He left front line politics all together long ago so he does not really strike me as someone who would fight for, or live or die by his principles either. Maybe one spell as prime minister or party leader then on to the millionaire speech circuit alongside Blair.

Alan Johnson was often said to be the best leader that Labour never had but when push came to shove he did not have the cojones to put his name forward. I know Milliband did once, but didn't exactly show a lot of perseverance.

 

[chris who]

I have always been a labour voter but not under Corbin and Starmer.

David Milliband is the only person who can make them credible again.

I've been pointlessly voting Green for many years now.

Move to Brighton or mid Suffolk.

 

[chris who]

I agree about Dave Milliband.

It's important that we have credible opposition regardless of whoever is living at number 10, keeps them "honest"

The only opposition the Tories will form will be against each other.You think the infighting is bad now wait until after they lose the election.

 

[Whisky Gill]

The trouble is that by trying to appeal to everyone you end up appealing to no one. Labour just holding their breath for the next year is a gamble which may not pay off. I think that the election is not a done deal yet. There is no momentum (excuse the pun) behind Labour yet, unlike when Blair was elected. Expect small improvements to be magnified by the Tories and don't be surprised if the public buy it.

 

[GillsBluenose]

The trouble is that by trying to appeal to everyone you end up appealing to no one. Labour just holding their breath for the next year is a gamble which may not pay off. I think that the election is not a done deal yet. There is no momentum (excuse the pun) behind Labour yet, unlike when Blair was elected. Expect small improvements to be magnified by the Tories and don't be surprised if the public buy it.

Also, by Starmer actually voting for, and backing, many tory policies or saying he would not change them, he is increasingly looking like he backs both failure and inequality while not giving the impression that much would change under him. The two child benefit maximum being the latest example.

An awful lot of floating voters or even usual tory voters might ask why they should change their voting habits for someone so similar, or at least not offering solutions.

 

[LancsGordoRoad]

Also, by Starmer actually voting for, and backing, many tory policies or saying he would not change them, he is increasingly looking like he backs both failure and inequality while not giving the impression that much would change under him. The two child benefit maximum being the latest example.

An awful lot of floating voters or even usual tory voters might ask why they should change their voting habits for someone so similar, or at least not offering solutions.

I`m a floating voter. Guess we all have our own priorities, for me, it`s Public Services. I was disappointed that Starmer recently declined to commit to uplifting finance of public services. Public services have been in very serious decline since 2010 and my vote will probably go to whichever party commits to reviving them.

 

[Gills 58]

Sadly, if Starmer suggests spending on anything he is bombarded with "how will you pay for it" "you will raise taxes" blah, blah, blah. I rememeber how the Tories snatched a win in 1992 on the "Double whammy tax bombshell".

I note virually no questioning of how the Tories will fund their new Health Service Plan other than "it will come from the Treasury". This has been accepted by our supine media. Ditto if they get rid of Inheritance tax.

Frankly any group of politicians from any opposition party must surely be better than this bunch of incompetents who have been hijacked by right wing infiltrators in the last few years.

I'd love Labour to put forward what I consider crucial, left wing policies. However, we'd be thrashed if we put forward the Manifesto I'd like. Far more important right now is to get the present incarnation of the Tories out, even if the alternative isn't anywhere near as bold as I'd like. There are millions who can't afford another 5 years of these Grifters.

As the Lib Dems are best placed in my constituency, I'd probably vote for them. Far better than the Tories. We have a classic Brexit Gammon extremist in my as MP, ironically called Bacon. The local Tory party made Joe Johnson quit before he was forced out. Joe was actually a reasonable human being (unlike his brother, of course).