🚹 Tanguy Ndombélé - Player Thread | Page 20 | Vital Football

🚹 Tanguy Ndombélé - Player Thread

muttley said:
Do you not think he'll revel in turning this around and sticking a middle finger up at all concerned?

He's surely only got smaller clubs or international management to go after this and it's a great time in our history to be joining if you want to build something.

I don't think he's going anywhere for a while.
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If he keeps the support of the board, he'll still be here, if he insists on persisting with being fractious , he'll have his work cut out to be trusted.

AS he keeps saying, he knows the profile of the club and relished the challenge and wanted to show he could still do it, he'd learned alot after his last sacking and had changed (his words) what the board won't enjoy/want is 'old' Jose back who wants to go to war with the board publicly the way he did at manure.
 
Spursex said:
If he keeps the support of the board, he'll still be here, if he insists on persisting with being fractious , he'll have his work cut out to be trusted.

AS he keeps saying, he knows the profile of the club and relished the challenge and wanted to show he could still do it, he'd learned alot after his last sacking and had changed (his words) what the board won't enjoy/want is 'old' Jose back who wants to go to war with the board publicly the way he did at manure.
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Makes sense. I haven't seem him fractious with Levy or our board though (yet).
 
muttley said:
I think there is the 3 scenarios of CL vs EL vs No Europe that impact the money. Every place in the league is worth a couple of million even if we don't progress to the next round of the CL. The difference between the high and low scenario is probably >ÂŁ20m would be my guess.

The point you make about which players are sacrificed to raise funds is probably the most intriguing piece in my mind - Sanchez? Moura? Aurier? Winks? Davies? Dier? Lloris? Sissoko? etc
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It will be more like ÂŁ25 mill loss if we finished 9th (more if we finish lower) because as well as the finishing position payment we'll lose more because we're televised less.

I can't see any players being sacrificed for funds as it's clear Jose wants more players, not less!
 
Zero sprints, our slowest player, no tackles or interceptions. Carragher said he either cant run or doesn't want to. I called it months ago by watching his best YouTube bits. He didnt show a clean pair of heels through pace, only created space with trickery. Then when he came here his running style was too languid with high lifting back stride , a kind of false impression of effort.
 
I never defended his performance. Just said he was set up to fail with the system. But Carra really nailed him with the analysis. I hope he's carrying a knock or Ex (and others) are right that he may be in need of surgery. Otherwise he just has to work much much harder.
 
Knock or not his effort is pathetic. Funny how he seems fine when he has the ball.

He is lazy regardless. I'm glad he has been called out by Jose, Dele and ex players.
 
I'm not a Carragher fan, but that is a great piece of punditry. The most telling piece is the Sanchez glare at the end. I would have loved to have seen the other 9 clips.

I can't believe nobody has sat down with him and shown him the internal analysis we collect when he's playing. Now it's coming out publicly on Twitter and Sky.

I'm glad Jose called him out publicly. The only shame is he didn't sub him after 35 or 50 mins. Drag him off in the 1st half and give him maximum attention OR give him 5 mins after half time to react and then drag him off when he didn't.
 
muttley said:
I'm not a Carragher fan, but that is a great piece of punditry. The most telling piece is the Sanchez glare at the end. I would have loved to have seen the other 9 clips.

I can't believe nobody has sat down with him and shown him the internal analysis we collect when he's playing. Now it's coming out publicly on Twitter and Sky.

I'm glad Jose called him out publicly. The only shame is he didn't sub him after 35 or 50 mins. Drag him off in the 1st half and give him maximum attention OR give him 5 mins after half time to react and then drag him off when he didn't.
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I would guess Dele's "violins" comment had something to do with this as well.
 
The fact that Ndombele is hiding, rather than making himself available for a pass, stinks of no confidence. I have watched Winks do the same thing plenty of times this season and it is just something so many footballers do when they, and the team, are totally void of confidence. His pricetag is haunting him as well. I've just gone back and watched some of Ndombele's games from the last 2 seasons and it has got me thinking that we are simply using the guy in totally the wrong way too.

In Lyon's game against Man City in the CL the way Ndombele played didnt look much different to this season, but what he did do was sit next to a defensive mid who would win the ball and then instantly find Ndombele, who would either find a quick pass forward or would run into space to find a pass forward. The problem is, we have Winks who wants to do the same thing and both of them NEED a DM next to them to do the grunt work that allows them to focus on that job. Not to mention, our movement off the ball as a team is appalling. Almost everyone is hiding.

The glaringly obvious thing to see is he is a player who is struggling to adapt to the pace of the PL, which is nothing new, and a player who doesn't look anywhere near as confident in his body language as he did last season. He needs to work hard and he needs to pushing to adapt. He is definitely being made into a scapegoat at the moment because I look at his stats compared to Winks (who I am a fan of as well) and Ndombele is miles ahead.
 
Not in the effort department he isn't. Dembele was always injured I can't remember a game where he wouldn't try.

Same goes for Winks with his ankle.

Agree he and all our CM players need a DM next to them though. Why we haven't addressed this weakness over the last 2 years is mind boggling.

It's not a coincidence we have holes everywhere like a swiss cheese since we stopped using one.
 
Just watched the first half again. What is obvious is the following:
- Nbombele is playing in walk or jog mode the entire first half. That is with the ball and when we're defending. He looked like he was in a training game mode.
- Ndombele takes up more receiving positions than perhaps Carragher gives him credit for, but is mostly guilty of not showing.
- Ndombele isn't playing flat with Skipp in a double pivot. He sort of decides that he'll play in a more advanced position mostly in the left pocket. He does get back into shape though defensively but never really presses or does anything aggressively to help. He's certainly not helping Skipp, who was having a bad game.
- Ndombele barely got near their 18 yard box for the entire half. Not a bit of counter attacking at pace instinct in him. He was offering nothing offensively either expect trying to pull a few strings from deep. He took one corner....badly.

So I'm thinking Jose got it about right. The guy was playing so within himself, it was criminal. He started the game with a bad attitude, got stuck in 3rd gear and couldn't drag himself out of it. It's nothing to do with adapting to the pace of the Prem at all in my opinion. It was nothing to do with not having Roy Keane alongside him either. It was nothing like the pace of a derby match where he might struggle either. He barely got out of breath as his own choice.

Now I'm guessing with the right attitude, he could dismantle Burnley single handedly. Right now, I've never seen Jamie Bowden play, but I wouldn't mind betting our new Carrick would have put up a better showing than Tanguy. At least his Spurs blood would have made him care.
 
Don't get me wrong, I am not defending his lack of effort. What we don't know is the reason behind the lack of effort. Has he fallen out with the manager? Is his confidence so low that he is totally jaded? Has the step up in quality been a total shock? Does he understand his role? Or has his big money transfer had a negative impact on him and he thinks he is above it all?

When it comes to unknowns such as these I always tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. I definitely disagree with public shaming though because it is psychologically counter-intuitive.
 
Nick Real Deal said:
He did say he was surprised at the intensity of the PL. I noticed his heavy legs when tracking back. I watched his best bits on YouTube and very little is pace based. He creates room with trickery but rarely a clean pair of heels. I hope I'm wrong and our coaches get him conditioned to the PL. It can take some a while.
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October the 2nd.
 
Matic said:
Don't get me wrong, I am not defending his lack of effort. What we don't know is the reason behind the lack of effort. Has he fallen out with the manager? Is his confidence so low that he is totally jaded? Has the step up in quality been a total shock? Does he understand his role? Or has his big money transfer had a negative impact on him and he thinks he is above it all?

When it comes to unknowns such as these I always tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. I definitely disagree with public shaming though because it is psychologically counter-intuitive.
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I think the psychologically counter-intuitive piece really depends on your personally type though. It could do absolutely nothing or work both ways, positive or negative. I think we sense negative with this guy though.

But get your point about the "why". One is fitness and pace in he Prem. Another theory is protecting himself from further injury. Another is bad attitude. Another is trying to force a move out of the club. Another is Jose because he hung him out to dry when injured. Another is he is not bought into the philosophy etc. We don't really know.

What would be nice is if Tanguy spoke up. The radio silence is deafening since he joined the club. He's on a 6 year contract and just to hear his commitment and see him building a relationship with the fans would go a long way at the moment. Dele's communications have been quality recently.
 
Matic said:
Don't get me wrong, I am not defending his lack of effort. What we don't know is the reason behind the lack of effort. Has he fallen out with the manager? Is his confidence so low that he is totally jaded? Has the step up in quality been a total shock? Does he understand his role? Or has his big money transfer had a negative impact on him and he thinks he is above it all?

When it comes to unknowns such as these I always tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. I definitely disagree with public shaming though because it is psychologically counter-intuitive.
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All of those are fair comments.
But the lack of effort is what upsets me most. If you are playing crap you at least have a go and try something.
 
So what's the inside story on Ndo? Did the scouts get it totally wrong and fail to report on his work rate and defending? Has coming to the Premier League/coming to Tottenham been too overwhelming for the lad? Does he just not like Jose?

He's definitely playing like a luxury item, that is when he's fit enough to play, can we, like our N. London (hated) neighbours afford to play 11 v 11 going forward and 10 v 11 going the other way. A conundrum for sure...

Haven't seen the team sheet for tonight and don't know if he traveled with the team (anyone got news on this)?

At the same time we'll field flash-in-the-pan Dele and we'll get nowt for it (keep smashing your head against the wall, you'll knock yourself out eventually...but it looks like Jose's noggin is a tough one (hence him always going with Dier), no sign of concussion yet (more like percussion...cowbell maybe)?

I hate to be the glass half empty guy, but it comes part and parcel with supporting our team. If we get a score draw it'll smell like a victory, but the reality is we'll have gotten bounced...something deep down inside wants to be proven wrong, but there's the problem, it's deep...deeeeep down inside!
 
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