Sick of karanka?

[Basha73]

"They say instantity is doing the same thing over and over expecting as different result".
This principle could equally be applied to sticking with a failing manager. One who has been in charge for 12 months and had unprecedented resources for the club, yet has gained less points than Doggie Freeman in the same time period. As we know Doggie had to work in far more hostile environment. We can do better than Karanka now.

So after years of chopping and changing and getting nowhere you are advocating doing it again because AK hasn’t delivered instant success? Ok.

The investment was necessary. Carvalho seems to have been overpriced but he has ability and could eventually justify the tag. We also don’t know who sanctioned his purchase along with a number of the others.

We are predominantly playing decent football and we are in no danger of relegation.

You say we are better than AK but who else is out there that you would take and who would instantly transform our fortunes? There aren’t many Bielsas out there.

I suppose you could always ask Dougie if he is free and wants to come back...

 

[Pope John XXIII]

For me, Karanka needs at least another 12 months. This season was always likely to be about building from a long term lower table team to a team capable of challenging.

Whether we got ahead of schedule always depended on four attacking signings. We needed all of them to work and only half have. Dias and Goncalves had to work for us to be up there and they haven't. We are still scrambling around trying to make Cash and Osborn world beaters when they are not (yet at least in Cash's case).

Unfortunately that is just our luck. Derby made 3 attacking signings that all worked out and suddenly Lampard is a genius. It never works out like that for us.

If at the end of December next year, with a little more investment we still aren't challenging then he should be sacked.

If we are challenging in 12 months he should get the rest of the season. If we maintain that challenge but miss out on promotion he should still get the next season.

 

[Basha73]

For me, Karanka needs at least another 12 months. This season was always likely to be about building from a long term lower table team to a team capable of challenging.

Whether we got ahead of schedule always depended on four attacking signings. We needed all of them to work and only half have. Dias and Goncalves had to work for us to be up there and they haven't. We are still scrambling around trying to make Cash and Osborn world beaters when they are not (yet at least in Cash's case).

Unfortunately that is just our luck. Derby made 3 attacking signings that all worked out and suddenly Lampard is a genius. It never works out like that for us.

If at the end of December next year, with a little more investment we still aren't challenging then he should be sacked.

If we are challenging in 12 months he should get the rest of the season. If we maintain that challenge but miss out on promotion he should still get the next season.

Broadly agree but I would be looking to give him all of this season and next unless we are going backwards.

Provided we are improving both in terms of the team/squad and performances then there is no reason to change.

 

[forestonourwayback]

For me, Karanka needs at least another 12 months. This season was always likely to be about building from a long term lower table team to a team capable of challenging.

Whether we got ahead of schedule always depended on four attacking signings. We needed all of them to work and only half have. Dias and Goncalves had to work for us to be up there and they haven't. We are still scrambling around trying to make Cash and Osborn world beaters when they are not (yet at least in Cash's case).

Unfortunately that is just our luck. Derby made 3 attacking signings that all worked out and suddenly Lampard is a genius. It never works out like that for us.

If at the end of December next year, with a little more investment we still aren't challenging then he should be sacked.

If we are challenging in 12 months he should get the rest of the season. If we maintain that challenge but miss out on promotion he should still get the next season.

Where signings are concerned luck doesn't come into it. Signing Dias, Goncalves, Tachtsidis and maybe Watson were poor judgement, plain and simple.

I'm sure Lampard would claim that he did his homework and exercised good judgement with his three attacking signings and that's why they worked out (much as that sticks in the craw!)

 

[ozzyten10]

I don’t think any of the above should be attributed to AK

 

[in_the_top_one]

Keep.

Science, yo.

 

[Galaxy42]

They say instantity is doing the same thing over and over expecting as different result".

Can't read this without seeing instant tity.

In truth we've being following the same 'have a poor run, sack manager & start again' routine over & over again for the best part of a decade, isn't it now time to try something different? Or carry on sacking & starting again over and over again but expect a different result this time?

 

[Our Kids Dad]

Can't read this without seeing instant tity.

In truth we've being following the same 'have a poor run, sack manager & start again' routine over & over again for the best part of a decade, isn't it now time to try something different? Or carry on sacking & starting again over and over again but expect a different result this time?

I hope we stick by AK, given him his 3rd transfer window and then re-assess at end of season - given the investment, I would expect playoffs.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Where signings are concerned luck doesn't come into it. Signing Dias, Goncalves, Tachtsidis and maybe Watson were poor judgement, plain and simple.

I'm sure Lampard would claim that he did his homework and exercised good judgement with his three attacking signings and that's why they worked out (much as that sticks in the craw!)

Every single signing ever is a gamble to some extent. It's not all about judgement, it's about how they as professionals can settle. Remember that none had been in this league already. Remember also that none cost us anything in transfer fees.

On paper all had attributes closely attuned to what we need. There should have been no reason why Watson wouldn't work well for us and be a real driving force in the midfield. Just as there should have been no reason why Gary Holt or Neil Lennon or Paul McKenna should not have worked in the same way. All four are almost the same transfer- yet three didn't work and one (the one starting at the same level) did.

How can Karanka tell the future?

Lampard has the contacts get some of the best young players at the best PL clubs. This wasn't good judgement- he had fucked off to Russia most of the summer. He has friends and former colleagues doing that work for him.

Yet it is still hit and hope. We signed Dowell and he gave us around 25 good games and was then useless. The same could have been true of Harry Wilson, with Derby then locked into a cumbersome Liverpool contract in which they have to play him regardless of his form or face fines. Would Lampard have been a genius then? Their current position hinges on the success of that transfer and he could have had no more certainly of it working than we did with any of ours.

Likewise Marriott. It doesn't take a genius to realise that Marriott was likely to score goals at this level. The difference was that Derby already had players that could score goals and could afford to take a small risk on him and still compete. We had no reliable goalscorer whatsoever so paid a bit more for a guarentee goalscorer. Give me the same choice ten times and I would back the choice Karanka made each time.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Broadly agree but I would be looking to give him all of this season and next unless we are going backwards.

Provided we are improving both in terms of the team/squad and performances then there is no reason to change.

By that point he would have had two years plus four transfer windows.

If he still has us meandering 5-8 points off the playoffs by that point then he is wasting our time. I don't expect much but I expect us in the mix after two years with reasonable investment.

At that point I feel there would be more good done in bringing a new man in and giving them six months to impose their values in the squad and learn lessons than giving another 6 months to someone who had clearly not done well enough.

 

[Basha73]

By that point he would have had two years plus four transfer windows.

If he still has us meandering 5-8 points off the playoffs by that point then he is wasting our time. I don't expect much but I expect us in the mix after two years with reasonable investment.

At that point I feel there would be more good done in bringing a new man in and giving them six months to impose their values in the squad and learn lessons than giving another 6 months to someone who had clearly not done well enough.

All depends on how it happens. If there is lots of investment and little progress then I would agree but if players such as Lolley have been sold and/or the investment is modest then it will depend on the level of progress.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

All depends on how it happens. If there is lots of investment and little progress then I would agree but if players such as Lolley have been sold and/or the investment is modest then it will depend on the level of progress.

Yes, if the plan changes then so do the expectations

 

[Basha73]

Yes, if the plan changes then so do the expectations

Assuming we miss out this season I would expect a more concerted effort next season and hopefully a playoff place.

Again,going forward it is difficult to predict the level of investment from our owners. We also have Colback going back and a reasonable possibility of Lolley being poached along with maybe one or two others.

All of these things and how AK and the players cope will have an impact on how we and the owners react.

 

[radfordinlondon]

"They say instantity is doing the same thing over and over expecting as different result".
This principle could equally be applied to sticking with a failing manager. One who has been in charge for 12 months and had unprecedented resources for the club, yet has gained less points than Doggie Freeman in the same time period. As we know Doggie had to work in far more hostile environment. We can do better than Karanka now.

U said it numpty- 12months, nothing at all really bearing in mind where we were.

U r saying we can do better- who

If u say Bruce u need medication

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Here is one for you all- the lineup two years ago, 30th December 2016. Surely one of the worst forest teams ever to take to the field.

And we expect around £20m to sort out the legacy of this?

 

[Calvin Plummer]

I'd love AK to know that barring an absolutely disastrous 6 months that's he's completely safe this season and next. Right now he's having to make decisions based on the short term (if rumours are correct as short term as the weekend) and that doesn't make for healthy choices.

That stability would also help the players to understand that either they get behind his vision or they just yet out - even if that player is our best option at left back...

Either way these rumours aren't helpful in any shape or form. His body language post Millwall was rather telling.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

Here is one for you all- the lineup two years ago, 30th December 2016. Surely one of the worst forest teams ever to take to the field.

And we expect around £20m to sort out the legacy of this?


View attachment 30586

Agreed but it's even more about building a footballing philosophy and a culture of winning etc. These things don't happen over night no matter how much money you chuck at them, especially with a basketcase club like ours.

 

[ZedRed]

Here is one for you all- the lineup two years ago, 30th December 2016. Surely one of the worst forest teams ever to take to the field.

And we expect around £20m to sort out the legacy of this?


View attachment 30586

I was there (ZedRed in attending game shocker!) and we didn't play all that bad really. Yeah, Bendtner was lazy as fook and Mills's discipline was shocking and Stojkovic played like a clown, but apart from that, the other 8 players weren't all that bad on the night.

 

[Lienking]

Every single signing ever is a gamble to some extent. It's not all about judgement, it's about how they as professionals can settle. Remember that none had been in this league already. Remember also that none cost us anything in transfer fees.


Likewise Marriott. It doesn't take a genius to realise that Marriott was likely to score goals at this level. The difference was that Derby already had players that could score goals and could afford to take a small risk on him and still compete. We had no reliable goalscorer whatsoever so paid a bit more for a guarentee goalscorer. Give me the same choice ten times and I would back the choice Karanka made each time.

Signings are a gamble, but there's no doubt that some managers have the knack and some don't. Even the great BC's signings were not as good once Peter Taylor left. Nearly all Lampards signings are British, or in the few cases that aren't they've come from British clubs. A lot of our signings are foreign, and as well as a new club they have to learn the language, get used to the climate and get used to British football too. Plenty of foreign signings work, and we do seem to be unlucky with injuries, but we have taken a lot of gambles, including signing some older players who are more likely to get injured.

 

[Mappred]

Season is gone now...not that I am too fussed with AK...at this point...let him finish the season...if we make the play offs thats good ...if not ...sack him at the end of the season...dont see much gain in doing it now..

How is the season gone? FFS.