Rowett? Stay or go...but make your mind up!

[The real Swaley]

Serious question here: why does the manager owe any loyalty to the fans? I genuinely don't get this.

During the second half of the season the fans lost faith in the manager and many showed no loyalty to him. Take that master of sweary excesses in the other place DCFC Army. Loyal no, and a significant chunk of the fan base turned on GR during the 3 months horror run, conveniently ignoring the previous 3 months of overachievement that got us there.

If anything fans are more fickle than managers. Yes they are loyal to the Club as a concept, but not to players, managers or even owners.

This is a hobby horse of mine I accept but I've never understood the belief that fans are anything more than a bunch of people willing to be fleeced and indeed they are of growing insignificance as non crowd related revenue streams grow

It will all end in tears! Its as fake as saying what a wonderful job Guardiola has done at city, yes indeed when you have two football teams costing squillions of pounds at your disposal its not difficult if your anywhere near a half decent coach, getting cardiff or Huddersfield promoted and keeping a club like them in the prem is arguably a harder job and I very much doubt some of these top top managers could do it.

Its all a farce really, a game of make believe and whilst there is no doubting the passion of the fans, they are fickle and will turn on "one of their own" as soon as results don't go the way they expect, will abuse players that weeks before they were cheering, not surprised at all that in such an environment its every man (or woman) for themselves.

 

[ramAnag]

Anag your harking back to a different age, I ecall the era when players were proud to play for their local club and got paid a pittance for it, but even in those halycon days Clough senior buggered off to Forest when Derby didn't suit him so the concept of loyalty is very much in a fans head and probably always has been, human nature being what it is.
Who can blame any individual for choosing to take an opportunity which seems to offer more promise? its a gamble after all, money is no guarantee of success and Rowett may fall flat on his arse, albeit, with a more lucrative contract to fall back on.

We didn't see much loyalty shown by the club to the other managers and whilst there may have been other circumstances, we dont after all know the full facts behind Rowett's departure, Mel may have even encouraged him to go, knowing that he would pick up £2 million compo and be able to hire someone else on a cheaper wage, he may have agreed that if Rowett stayed and signed a new contract, that if he wanted to he could go at the end of the season, who knows?

So its farewell Rowett, you tried, did not quite achieve what you set out to do and its on to the next!

Not really true that Swaley. Clough didn’t ‘bugger off to Forest when Derby didn’t suit him’...he resigned from Derby when he fell out with Longson and eventually ended up at Forest many months later via a managerial route that included Brighton and Leeds.

Neither would the example of Brian Clough from forty five years ago suggest that I am ‘harking back to a different age’. Managers and players have always moved clubs but there are right ways and wrong ways to go about it imo.

You have a very jaundiced view of the world if you find the notion of loyalty to be such an outdated concept. I accept that modern football does little to encourage any belief in loyalty but it does exist in other walks of life so why not football?

Isn’t this lack of loyalty, aka commitment to the common cause, exactly what we on the forums have spent so much time objecting to whether that be in the form of the attitudes of Chris Martin, Steve McClaren, Jacob Butterfield or, most recently, Gary Rowett?

I think you confuse naivety with idealism. I doubt anyone who knows me would describe me as naive. I am however sufficiently idealistic to believe that there is a better way of going about things than the examples above have displayed and it is more than a little ironic that the one person who has arguably shown more loyalty and commitment to the cause of DCFC than any other - Mel Morris - should be the repeated subject of your harangues.

 

[The real Swaley]

Not really true that Swaley. Clough didn’t ‘bugger off to Forest when Derby didn’t suit him’...he resigned from Derby when he fell out with Longson and eventually ended up at Forest many months later via a managerial route that included Brighton and Leeds.

Neither would the example of Brian Clough from forty five years ago suggest that I am ‘harking back to a different age’. Managers and players have always moved clubs but there are right ways and wrong ways to go about it imo.

You have a very jaundiced view of the world if you find the notion of loyalty to be such an outdated concept. I accept that modern football does little to encourage any belief in loyalty but it does exist in other walks of life so why not football?

Isn’t this lack of loyalty, aka commitment to the common cause, exactly what we on the forums have spent so much time objecting to whether that be in the form of the attitudes of Chris Martin, Steve McClaren, Jacob Butterfield or, most recently, Gary Rowett?

I think you confuse naivety with idealism. I doubt anyone who knows me would describe me as naive. I am however sufficiently idealistic to believe that there is a better way of going about things than the examples above have displayed and it is more than a little ironic that the one person who has arguably shown more loyalty and commitment to the cause of DCFC than any other - Mel Morris - should be the repeated subject of your harangues.

Its only football fans who spend hours discussing the concepts of loyalty regarding managers or players - projecting ideals on people is a sure sign of naivety - as for idealism, well your looking in the wrong place at football, the players and managers talked about are by people who think they should be loyal and then slag them off for disloyalty - sure theres plenty of rubbish spouted on the media by various people but in the need one can be very loyal as a player or a manager and find out the next day your not wanted.

Your criticising players when you have no idea what they are dealing with, how about you get signed by a manager, then another manager takes charge and changes the system and does not play you or makes you play in a position your not comfortable with? If it happened to you in your job I'd venture your attitude might be called into question!

I have not repeatedly harangued Mel Morris, but I guess a fan is not allowed to question what he has done whilst owning Derby? I actually refuted Angry on another Forum who felt the club had declined since Mel took ownership - you could at least get your facts right.

I am surprised that someone apparently as intelligent as you buys into the loyalty crap, but I guess we all have to have our illusions in life.

 

[ramAnag]

Christ alive Swaley...are you stalking me?
Be nice if you took someone else to task just for once.

Anyway...about getting my facts right...I don’t know about you refuting Angry’s claim...must have been a while ago, he’s not been heard of for about two months...but how you can claim to be in any way supportive of MM is beyond me when elsewhere you’re on record as accusing him of ‘chucking his toys out of the pram’ and ‘making a right balls up’ of the job.

On the ‘loyalty’ question...it’s getting boring now, but you really need to read what I write not what you think I write. I don’t naively expect it, but I would like to see some changes in outlook so that players and managers alike might be expected to show some semblance of that shown by our current owner and the majority of fans.

 

[The real Swaley]

Christ alive Swaley...are you stalking me?
Be nice if you took someone else to task just for once.

Anyway...about getting my facts right...I don’t know about you refuting Angry’s claim...must have been a while ago, he’s not been heard of for about two months...but how you can claim to be in any way supportive of MM is beyond me when elsewhere you’re on record as accusing him of ‘chucking his toys out of the pram’ and ‘making a right balls up’ of the job.

On the ‘loyalty’ question...it’s getting boring now, but you really need to read what I write not what you think I write. I don’t naively expect it, but I would like to see some changes in outlook so that players and managers alike might be expected to show some semblance of that shown by our current owner and the majority of fans.

Yeah and I'd like to see the world a fairer place where the good people don't get stiffed and those who behave in a loyal way don't get shafted, but you and me know that aint the natural order of the world? or at least I do>

I'm not sure whether your naive, idealistic or age has dimmed your intellectual thoughts such that you think things were different back in the day.

Your posts certainly read as if you naively expect loyalty, you go on about Rowett as if he owes a debt of loyalty, when in point of fact neither you nor indeed me know what went down, as I said Mel could well have encouraged the move and for numerous reasons outlined by me and others its not hard to see why Rowett would make the move. Was he wrong to consider the opportunity did he do it in the wrong way? Not from where I'm standing, its only people like yourself who prattle on about loyalty as if its a given or even a desirable thing.

I don't claim to be supportive of Mel, I support the club, thats irrespective of who owns it, who plays for it or who manages it. IMHO he has made a balls up, I mean last time I looked we were still in the championship having had 6 changes of management in 5 years and spent a few million on players, its hardly an example of good ownership and operation of the club is it?

Give me a competent owner over a committed owner anytime.

FFS! I right one questioning thread about where the club is and some of the farcical goings on since Mel took over and you claim I'm haranguing Mel, obviously in your world if your loyal and committed (no matter how crap you are at doing the job) then your to be admired!

 

[Manofpride]

No loyalty in football now, large amounts of cash to blame. Everyone follows the £.

 

[The real Swaley]

No loyalty in football now, large amounts of cash to blame. Everyone follows the £.

Not sure there was ever much loyalty, not since players contracts were changed and they weren't tied to the club and virtual slaves. Of course the Bosman ruling exacerbated that.

But the nature of the world has changed and it aint going to change.

 

[ramAnag]

Yeah and I'd like to see the world a fairer place where the good people don't get stiffed and those who behave in a loyal way don't get shafted, but you and me know that aint the natural order of the world? or at least I do>

I'm not sure whether your naive, idealistic or age has dimmed your intellectual thoughts such that you think things were different back in the day.

Your posts certainly read as if you naively expect loyalty, you go on about Rowett as if he owes a debt of loyalty, when in point of fact neither you nor indeed me know what went down, as I said Mel could well have encouraged the move and for numerous reasons outlined by me and others its not hard to see why Rowett would make the move. Was he wrong to consider the opportunity did he do it in the wrong way? Not from where I'm standing, its only people like yourself who prattle on about loyalty as if its a given or even a desirable thing.

I don't claim to be supportive of Mel, I support the club, thats irrespective of who owns it, who plays for it or who manages it. IMHO he has made a balls up, I mean last time I looked we were still in the championship having had 6 changes of management in 5 years and spent a few million on players, its hardly an example of good ownership and operation of the club is it?

Give me a competent owner over a committed owner anytime.

FFS! I right one questioning thread about where the club is and some of the farcical goings on since Mel took over and you claim I'm haranguing Mel, obviously in your world if your loyal and committed (no matter how crap you are at doing the job) then your to be admired!

You’ve lost the plot Swaley...you’ve just become an empty vessel...the Victor Meldrew of the forum. All sound and fury.
Personal abuse is the last resort of those with nothing to offer and it seems to have become your favourite pastime.

 

[Roger Ramjet]

It will soon emerge that the Real Swale voted for Brexit too

 

[ramAnag]

It will soon emerge that the Real Swale voted for Brexit too

No Rog...he opposes it but may have mentioned...just once or twice...that he makes a good living out of implementing it.

Of course everybody else is wrong apart from him because they’re either;
a) naive...i.e. disagree with him.
b) an ‘old fart’...i.e. a handful of years older than him and disagree with him.
c) too much of a deluded dimwit...i.e. don’t share his view of the world and again have the audacity to disagree with him or...
d) Mel Morris...who obviously knows much less than him in terms of running a football club.

 

[Mistaram]

Yeah and I'd like to see the world a fairer place where the good people don't get stiffed and those who behave in a loyal way don't get shafted, but you and me know that aint the natural order of the world? or at least I do>

I'm not sure whether your naive, idealistic or age has dimmed your intellectual thoughts such that you think things were different back in the day.

Your posts certainly read as if you naively expect loyalty, you go on about Rowett as if he owes a debt of loyalty, when in point of fact neither you nor indeed me know what went down, as I said Mel could well have encouraged the move and for numerous reasons outlined by me and others its not hard to see why Rowett would make the move. Was he wrong to consider the opportunity did he do it in the wrong way? Not from where I'm standing, its only people like yourself who prattle on about loyalty as if its a given or even a desirable thing.

I don't claim to be supportive of Mel, I support the club, thats irrespective of who owns it, who plays for it or who manages it. IMHO he has made a balls up, I mean last time I looked we were still in the championship having had 6 changes of management in 5 years and spent a few million on players, its hardly an example of good ownership and operation of the club is it?

Give me a competent owner over a committed owner anytime.

FFS! I right one questioning thread about where the club is and some of the farcical goings on since Mel took over and you claim I'm haranguing Mel, obviously in your world if your loyal and committed (no matter how crap you are at doing the job) then your to be admired!

Swales Can you tell us who you think is a competent football club owner

 

[The real Swaley]

No Rog...he opposes it but may have mentioned...just once or twice...that he makes a good living out of implementing it.

Of course everybody else is wrong apart from him because they’re either;
a) naive...i.e. disagree with him.
b) an ‘old fart’...i.e. a handful of years older than him and disagree with him.
c) too much of a deluded dimwit...i.e. don’t share his view of the world and again have the audacity to disagree with him or...
d) Mel Morris...who obviously knows much less than him in terms of running a football club.

No just you because you spouted a load of twaddle about Rowett not being loyal and then got very touchy when others as well as me pointed out that your views were more than a little naive!

Your the one tying yourself in knots when attempting to extricate yourself from some of the more ludicrous statements you have made about Rowett leaving, not my fault if you demonstrating how naive you are irritates you and no naive does not mean you disagree with me, it means you have some airy fairy notion about what motivates a manager or a player, rather than an understanding of reality- accept you posted some nonsense and move on, your just making a fool of yourself justifying it!

As for saying I call you a dimwit for not agreeing with my view of the world, on the question of loyalty and your assertions about that, its not only been me who has pointed out that you are wide of the mark it is in fact reality NOT my view or opinion and indeed as far as Rowett is concerned I set out clearly why this was the case - if you want to cling to your illusion about loyalty in football thats fine by me, but an illusion is not reality.

You inaccurately claimed I'd been constantly haranguing Mel, when all I did was criticise some of his actions in a thread. You would struggle to find many other threads where i have been critical of Mel, certainly others on this and other Forums have consistently been harsher, but it seems I am not allowed to have an opinion? Is Mel immune from criticism

Where did I claim I know more about Mel about running a football club?

Though tbh you and I don't know how much he does actually know about it, he has become owner by using his wealth to buy the club, not sure how much his expertise goes other than being a fan, in which case its entirely possible i do know as much as he does!

I'm pretty sure Theresa May knows more about being prime Minister than you, haven't noticed its stopped you criticising or indeed as you like to phrase it "haranguing" her!

I see as well as being unrealistic about how managers and players operate you are also unable to understand irony! The only reason I mention that I'm doing well out of Brexit in the first place was to refute those who claimed I was against it for purely personal reasons and then to demonstrate that actually it wont benefit those who voted for it and that contrary to those who said it wasn't going damage the Uk economy, that in fact it already was.


If stating the truth insults you, then thats your problem not mine!

 

[The real Swaley]

Swales Can you tell us who you think is a competent football club owner

That rather depends upon the criteria used to judge? If its success in football then Abramovich has turned Chelsea into trophy winners even if he does get through managers very quickly, Sheik Mansour at man City, Coates at Stoke has done well to keep them in the prem for 10 consecutive seasons, Robinson has done wonders at Burton and you ahve to give Kronke and his consortium at Arsenal credit for creating a well funded club with an excellent ground that has consistently been top 4 without splashing the cash other clubs have, whilst Whelan has achieved more for Wigan than any owner Derby have had for the past 20 years.

 

[The real Swaley]

It will soon emerge that the Real Swale voted for Brexit too

Yes because i could see the short term gain for me and sod the effect on the UK!

 

[The real Swaley]

You’ve lost the plot Swaley...you’ve just become an empty vessel...the Victor Meldrew of the forum. All sound and fury.
Personal abuse is the last resort of those with nothing to offer and it seems to have become your favourite pastime.

Better to have lost the plot than to have never known it in the first place like yourself.

 

[ramAnag]

Better to have lost the plot than to have never known it in the first place like yourself.

Great comeback chap...truly withering! I’m shattered...lying in pieces on the ground.

You know Swale, this is a forum...it’s where people exchange views...a bit of banter or to argue and debate.
That’s what it’s all about and disagreement is all part of that, but answer me this...how come I and others can argue, debate and disagree but it only becomes personal with you?
I often agree with you about politics but we clearly don’t see eye to eye over Lampard, loyalty, Rowett and Morris.
Then again I don’t see eye to eye with mista over Lampard, or Ram59 and Roger, sometimes, over politics. I have been known to disagree with MA over the EU but it never gets personal, it always remains civil... constructive even.
I reckon you’re the forum bully, Swaley...no idea why. You saw off Ramspride and Southern plus one or two others maybe from DCM and you’ve tried it, unsuccessfully, with Andy. Didn’t work with him and it won’t work with me. I don’t get bullied in real life and I’m sure as hell not going to be bullied by a keyboard version.
You may be right...I may be right about Lampard...time will tell. Who knows...he may not even be appointed? In the meantime if you could stop the impression of Mr Angry or a marginally more articulate DCFCA and refrain from thinking that anyone who dares to challenge you is talking bollux, I for one would appreciate it. l.

 

[Ram59]

Loyalty always has a price, fans realise that. Not many criticised SM when he left to go and be Fergie's assistant at Man U, so when you see an obvious opportunity to improve themselves, most fans accept it.

But in this case with Rowett, I and many fans feel that someone who has much history with the club through playing, radio punditry, managing and living in the area, not to mention a new increased contract, for him to go to Stoke is a sideways step and an insult to us all. Had the job been Everton, then I for one, would have accepted it a lot easier.

If I had an affair with the slapper down the road, then no one would understand me, but........ if Kylie come along, well one can always dream!

 

[Manofpride]

Looks like John Terry is on the way too!

 

[Mistaram]

Great comeback chap...truly withering! I’m shattered...lying in pieces on the ground.

You know Swale, this is a forum...it’s where people exchange views...a bit of banter or to argue and debate.
That’s what it’s all about and disagreement is all part of that, but answer me this...how come I and others can argue, debate and disagree but it only becomes personal with you?
I often agree with you about politics but we clearly don’t see eye to eye over Lampard, loyalty, Rowett and Morris.
Then again I don’t see eye to eye with mista over Lampard, or Ram59 and Roger, sometimes, over politics. I have been known to disagree with MA over the EU but it never gets personal, it always remains civil... constructive even.
I reckon you’re the forum bully, Swaley...no idea why. You saw off Ramspride and Southern plus one or two others maybe from DCM and you’ve tried it, unsuccessfully, with Andy. Didn’t work with him and it won’t work with me. I don’t get bullied in real life and I’m sure as hell not going to be bullied by a keyboard version.
You may be right...I may be right about Lampard...time will tell. Who knows...he may not even be appointed? In the meantime if you could stop the impression of Mr Angry or a marginally more articulate DCFCA and refrain from thinking that anyone who dares to challenge you is talking bollux, I for one would appreciate it. l.

Never got the better of Tricky though

 

[The real Swaley]

Never got the better of Tricky though

Are you serious? I even got banned by Rat for re-posting Trickys xenophobic and racist falsehoods, the rodent being so quick to pounce he hadn't spotted it was me holding up to Tricky something he had posted.

I bested Tricky so many times I felt sorry for the guy! Mind you not hard when he quoted "facts" mainly emanating from the Daily Express and other similar well known purveyors of the truth, which could and were easily shown to be false. The guy also told different stories and lies about himself that you would have to be a bit dim to believe him!

Even those who may have had sympathy with his views could tell his posts were mainly half truths at best and repulsive to the average decent human being at worst!