Promotion or Tories Out? | Page 78 | Vital Football

Promotion or Tories Out?

Forest-England said:
You might not need free broadband but there're many people out there that it would benefit.

What policy is so hard left?

Come on... David Miliband!! We'd be involved in more wars. Our foreign policy been f@cked up for years under every govt. We should hang our heads in shame apologise & say no more. It's time for change. & that's what we'll get under Corbyn. War just promotes more war more terror on our streets. While the elites make a fortune from it. We don't want to be involved with the war machine.

Before Corbyn Labour backed Austerity! They even gave ATOS the contract to get the sick & the disabled off vital benefits. Take a look at how many people have died after being told they're fit for work. Imagine if that was a relative of yours. How would you feel? Universal credit isn't fit for purpose. It's causing deaths & misery to so many people. Like I've said my partner works at a specialist disability school where you wouldn't believe the cuts that'they're going through. And funding for children to remain in mainstream schools has been
decimated. Children can't get the equipment that they need.

Attacking Corbyn not going to help you either. He's not the messiah.He's not perfect. He's many flaws. But give him a chance. It'll be the first time we've a leader that isn't part of the establishment. Someone that cares.

And don't forget that many of us voted for Blair that wasn't 100% behind him. He did do many great things. But also he got major things very wrong. That proved that Corbyn was on the right side of history.

Why do you think that the right wing media have attacked Corbyn from day one? They've thrown everything at him. And they would do the same to others. Apart from the Labour MPs that're from the right of Labour. The media is owned by the elites that want to cling on to power.
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someone that cares?

personally I fail to see how any one on £11k a month is a man of the people lol

its interesting that people moan at austerity...but how do you think bills are paid? should labour get in and spend their whatever billions on re-nationalisation and their manifesto plans...it has to be paid at some point down the line....

frankly im sick of them all, guy fawkes had the right idea
 
Southern red said:
someone that cares?

personally I fail to see how any one on £11k a month is a man of the people lol

its interesting that people moan at austerity...but how do you think bills are paid? should labour get in and spend their whatever billions on re-nationalisation and their manifesto plans...it has to be paid at some point down the line....

frankly im sick of them all, guy fawkes had the right idea
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Believe it or not there're people of wealth that do care & would be happier to pay more tax.

So do you prefer CEOs & shareholders getting millions of pounds bonuses each year from running theses companies that should be run for the people that needs to use these services to get to & from work. While every year it's a worse service while paying more. Do you know how much more it costs under the Tories?
 
Forest-England said:
Believe it or not there're people of wealth that do care & would be happier to pay more tax.

So do you prefer CEOs & shareholders getting millions of pounds bonuses each year from running theses companies that should be run for the people that needs to use these services to get to & from work. While every year it's a worse service while paying more. Do you know how much more it costs under the Tories?
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because the Unions were so great for us? I remember as a kid with family members in the car industry...was a nightmare

sadly I will never be a person of wealth, but lets say i was on crazy money...then the tax I pay is a shit load more than people abusing the benefits system to not work

the problem is how do we give the money to the deserving and make sure the undeserving arent milking the system to the detriment of others
 
MarlowBottom said:
How can anyone think Corbyn's intentions are not far left???

Read this and tell me otherwise..........

https://standpointmag.co.uk/issues/...-udy-jeremy-corbyn-britain-road-to-socialism/
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I think you'll find that it's the right that's as mover far right. The NHS would never existed in today's political climate. The media wouldn't allow it.

Leading Economists and academics back Labour spending plans. And the public back nationalisation plans. People are fed up of these companies ripping us off. The tories said that Ed Miliband plans on capping energy prices was marxist. Then the tories said that they would do it. But still haven't got round to do anything about it.
Just like the Tories fail to build any of 200,000 starter homes promised in 2015. Or paying off the debt which they promised would be gone in 2015
 
Forest-England said:
I think you'll find that it's the right that's as mover far right. The NHS would never existed in today's political climate. The media wouldn't allow it.

Leading Economists and academics back Labour spending plans. And the public back nationalisation plans. People are fed up of these companies ripping us off. The tories said that Ed Miliband plans on capping energy prices was marxist. Then the tories said that they would do it. But still haven't got round to do anything about it.
Just like the Tories fail to build any of 200,000 starter homes promised in 2015. Or paying off the debt which they promised would be gone in 2015
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Nobody is saying the Tories have been brilliant, but you can't just ignore the facts that the Labour party is now being run by Communists and Marxists, with the sole aim of turning Britain into a Communist state!!!
 
Let's look at some actual numbers from privatisation:


Water: when we sold it the government took on the debt on the agreement that shareholders would use profits going forward. To date they've taken on debt of over 50 billion. Guess who pays that? Yup, the consumer. Your bills are over 25% used to service that debt and yet those same shareholders have in the last decade alone paid themselves over 20 billion in dividens - that's almost the entire profit less 700m.

So just to be clear your bills are substantially higher in order to finance Improvements, maintenance etc. and yet we don't own it, we just watch the profits head off shore to a small number of wealthy investors.

The national grid: guess what, they're doing the same. Paying out the vast majority of profit as dividens and passing the cost of running and improving the network onto the consumer. Still at least competition has driven prices down you say. No sir, I'm afraid not, not only are bills higher but the energy companies have been found guilty of fraudulently overbilling the public to the tune of billions.

Still at least those off shore tax shelters are doing nicely.

British Rail? Let's see: less reliable? Check. Far far more expensive? Check (described by one Tory chancellor as a rich man's toy).

But the real kicker? We subsidise them far more than we ever did when they were nationalised.

Privatisation cost us 100,000s of jobs (tbh some rationalisation was needed but entire areas were decimated with no meaningful help forthcoming), billions in lost profit and billions extra passed onto the consumer.

Oh, and now we don't even have the assets.
 
Southern red said:
the problem is how do we give the money to the deserving and make sure the undeserving arent milking the system to the detriment of others
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You have hit the nail on the head. A few WASPI women probably deserve some money (e.g. carers), but most have had 15 (if not 24) years of warning. Amongst the people who will get £20k-£30k are Theresa May, Diane Abbott, Baroness someone and us. Same with free broadband. Companies are going to get it. It will cost circa £10 billion a year. Same with free student fees - those earning below £25k never pay anything anyhow, so most of those saving money will be the better paid ones including chief executives, lawyers etc. As you say, welfare needs better targeting , though the downside with that is it sometimes costs more money to work out who needs the benefits than it costs in paying them. Should be a lot easier in this day and age though when HMRC have up to date info on all employed people. Guess it's not the same for self employed though.
 
Forest-England said:
And you trust Johnson to carry out that? the Tories don't care about the working class. They only care about their donors that get contracts from their funding.

I've never heard that Johnson is from the centre! They've even got Tommy Robinson endorsing them.
What're you talking about? The Tories are responsible for many deaths to the sick & disabled people. While many live in fear. It's absolutely unbelievable how many have been fooled by the media.

We've got working people having to survive on food banks. How many homeless are going to die this Christmas.

Does anyone f@cking care?
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I don't know how many times I have to say this; I don't and won't be voting conservative. However, due to the Labour Party being infested with Momentum nut jobs, I won't be voting for them either.

In my opinion, Homelessness is largely caused by the lack of funding in social care and health. Foodbanks are a product of 10 years of austerity.

Ill say it one last time, I am not a tory.

Im also not so naive to think the left wings manifesto will work
 
Forest-England said:
I think you'll find that it's the right that's as mover far right. The NHS would never existed in today's political climate. The media wouldn't allow it.

Leading Economists and academics back Labour spending plans. And the public back nationalisation plans. People are fed up of these companies ripping us off. The tories said that Ed Miliband plans on capping energy prices was marxist. Then the tories said that they would do it. But still haven't got round to do anything about it.
Just like the Tories fail to build any of 200,000 starter homes promised in 2015. Or paying off the debt which they promised would be gone in 2015
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so you are ignoring labours failed promises?
 
MarlowBottom said:
Read the article CP!!!
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Yeah, it's an opinion piece from a right wing historian dotted with hearsay and facts but there's absolutely nothing to substantiate that Corbyn is a marxist.

I've little doubt he has common ground with those who are, but that isn't the same thing.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
Yeah, it's an opinion piece from a right wing historian dotted with hearsay and facts but there's absolutely nothing to substantiate that Corbyn is a marxist.

I've little doubt he has common ground with those who are, but that isn't the same thing.
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Sorry? McDonnell is a self confessed Marxist! Corbyn used to write for the Morning Star and all his closest advisors are ex-Communist party officials! Slightly more than hearsay.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
Let's look at some actual numbers from privatisation:


Water: when we sold it the government took on the debt on the agreement that shareholders would use profits going forward. To date they've taken on debt of over 50 billion. Guess who pays that? Yup, the consumer. Your bills are over 25% used to service that debt and yet those same shareholders have in the last decade alone paid themselves over 20 billion in dividens - that's almost the entire profit less 700m.

So just to be clear your bills are substantially higher in order to finance Improvements, maintenance etc. and yet we don't own it, we just watch the profits head off shore to a small number of wealthy investors.

The national grid: guess what, they're doing the same. Paying out the vast majority of profit as dividens and passing the cost of running and improving the network onto the consumer. Still at least competition has driven prices down you say. No sir, I'm afraid not, not only are bills higher but the energy companies have been found guilty of fraudulently overbilling the public to the tune of billions.

Still at least those off shore tax shelters are doing nicely.

British Rail? Let's see: less reliable? Check. Far far more expensive? Check (described by one Tory chancellor as a rich man's toy).

But the real kicker? We subsidise them far more than we ever did when they were nationalised.

Privatisation cost us 100,000s of jobs (tbh some rationalisation was needed but entire areas were decimated with no meaningful help forthcoming), billions in lost profit and billions extra passed onto the consumer.

Oh, and now we don't even have the assets.
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The water companies are far more efficient than they were before privatisation. They currently have debts of circa £50 billion. Would the government have invested all that money ? You say they have paid £20 billion in dividends in 30 years. Less than a billion a year. If the government issues bonds they will end up paying interest on the bonds and interest on the debts. The customer will still end up paying these.

Rail is another matter. We can wait till the franchises run out. With Labour supporting the Unions though, would it end up being run more efficiently? I doubt it, though this is one area that does need sorting out.
 
MarlowBottom said:
Sorry? McDonnell is a self confessed Marxist! Corbyn used to write for the Morning Star and all his closest advisors are ex-Communist party officials! Slightly more than hearsay.
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He made a throwaway comment, that's not the same thing. The Morning Star contains more than just communist writers: green, socialist, social Democrats etc. This just highlights its lazy journalism aimed at the gullible.

Corbyn is undoubtedly left wing, and undoubtedly has left wing friends. That's not the same as this being a communist plot - which is what Cummings suggested, backed with Jewish banker money lol

You can play the exact same game with Johnson who for instance employed Cummings an antisemite, does that mean Johndon is? Johnson himself has made numerous racist comments in his columns, does that mean he is one?
 
Lienking said:
The water companies are far more efficient than they were before privatisation. They currently have debts of circa £50 billion. Would the government have invested all that money ? You say they have paid £20 billion in dividends in 30 years. Less than a billion a year. If the government issues bonds they will end up paying interest on the bonds and interest on the debts. The customer will still end up paying these.

Rail is another matter. We can wait till the franchises run out. With Labour supporting the Unions though, would it end up being run more efficiently? I doubt it, though this is one area that does need sorting out.
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Jesus, no wonder you couldn't get a job as a teacher.

1) I said in the last decade, not 30 years.

2) if they are more efficient why are our Bill's so much higher? Could it be the 26% extra we pay to service that debt.

3) Even if true we'd own the asset and the profit lol do you see the difference?

In one circumstance you own nothing, the profits go overseas and you pay the debt.

In the other you own the asset, the profit is ours and you pay the debt (less the profit perhaps lol)
 
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