Promotion or Tories Out? | Page 75 | Vital Football

Promotion or Tories Out?

Lienking said:
First of all it's well known that teachers and University lecturers are more left wing (probably like politicians and never worked in the real world) , and are probably brainwashing the students.
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Well known or just one of your opinions again? Teachers and lecturers are now highly professional, the level of education is much higher than when I was at school and the teaching is certainly more engaging.
Students now have access to vast amounts of information from many sources, they are not going to be easily brainwashed.
Contrast that with our education (as a fellow Boomer) learning parrot fashion from out of date text books, having no means to question what you where being taught without having a board rubber thrown at your head.
Being streamed into your cohort at age 11, once in you weren’t getting out. I was destined to be a miner or in the military from that point on, because that was all that was on offer.
Education is vastly different these days....don’t believe everything the Torygraph says.
Lienking said:
Secondly it's nearly always been the case that you start off as being idealistic. As you get older you realise that what the politicians tell you doesn't happen.
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You have just described the Leave campaign perfectly.

You keep criticising left wing politics, referring back to the 70’s.
The U.K. is a vastly different place now to the 70’s. No matter what you think JC wants, we will never revert to mass strikes and picketing, those movements are over, people’s lifestyles will not support them. You can’t be on strike for 12 months with a mortgage!!

The U.K. hasn’t had a left wing Government since the late 70’s, this whole era since has been dominated by right wing and centrist politics.
I wouldn’t say life is easier now than it was then, but it is certainly different.
How can you be so negative about what left wing politics would do to the country now, because we do not have precedent here, only the word of a few ‘experts’. Be cynical of what the left wing wants, but remember it’s 40 years of right wing/centrist politics that has the country where it is now. And I think most would accept it’s a mess.

On the importance of experience through age, absolutely correct it is just as vital as a good education, but only if it’s applied to the current circumstances.
Experience for experiences sake is just a memoir.
 
Polly 433 said:
says the dude who deliberately misquotes. I said on tv not at climate discussion debate. I assume that was a genuine mistake as you are not stupid.
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I will assume I didn’t make myself clear. My gripe isn’t with politicians it is with media and tv companies. The tv stations are making the rules for debate and instead of reporting the news are writing the news. Take the Tory leader election three months ago. The tv companies set up the stage so all the prospective candidates were perched on high stools. The camera was set at chest level. The next day the companies report on how they sat on the stools and manplanning.
Parties agreed that they wouldn’t participate in debates with party members who were not standing as MP’s. This was to ensure the likes of Milne and Cummings were not part of the debates. As it turned out it also meant Farage and Sturgeon couldn’t because they decided not to stand for office. Sturgeon and Swanson decide to take tv companies to court but fail. Debate between JC and BJ goes ahead but the format is that they both have to answer questions inside 40 seconds. Some questions were quite deep whilst others had sub questions. Only having 40 seconds to explain spending on NHS left both candidates answering in sound bytes. Next day headlines is about the answers being of no substance and sound bytes. I wonder why?
Sky invite Cleverly to a debate but he had already, three weeks prior, agreed to be on radio. Thus they interview a chair. Guess what the headlines were the next day. If our politicians come across as unstatesman like I wonder why?
The tv stations insist it is the leaders that take part in debate (at least that what they told the courts). On climate debate Channel 4 refuse the past environment minister Gove, to take part in the debate on the premise it is for leaders, despite the fact he is in the studio. BJ does not do detail well whilst Gove as ex minister would have had Facts and figures. How ever fact is not what tv station want they want tomorrows headline. Thus the block of ice wheeled in to replace Boris.
The following day Long Bailey and other s are allowed to debate and the party leader rule is abandoned until the next time it suits a tv channel.
I note your comment this am on the London Bridge bombings and police numbers as reported in the Guardian, so I assume you have some anxiety with the media and how they choose to report.
Unlike the press( who can support who their owners wish) the tv companies have a responsibility to report without biase. They equally set out to make the headlines rather than encourage fact and debate. This is my gripe.
 
WatnallRed said:
I don't give a monkey's how many kids he has or hasn't got.

I see a government with the likes of Corby and McDonnell at its head as more of an imminent existential threat to my kids future.
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That's possibly the most stupid post in this thread, quite the achievement indeed. Kudos good sir.
 
WatnallRed said:
- Agree with you re interviews, Johnson should front up and do the Neil interview.

- As you know, Dustbyn has been a life-long critic of the EU but has undergone an amazing conversion to Remain. Man of principle by backside.

- The NHS for sale? Yeah of course, when all else fails wheel out the old comfort blanket. Dustbyn's "revelation" on Thursday that the NHS is "on the table" in trade negotiations with the US has been proven to be bullshit.

- Charlatan? Kettle, black, Dustbyn is a liar and a hypocrite, see above.

- Using the working class? Dustbyn and his cabal, i.e. McDonnell, Milne, Lansman, Marriot et al have complete contempt for the working class and have no idea of life beyond their North London bubble.

- Threat? Dustbyn is a known terrorist sympathiser, counts members of Sinn Fein, Hamas and Hezbollah as his "friends". Refused to condemn Russia for the Novichock attacks, stated that Bin laden "should have been arrested" - good luck with that one, I 'spose he would have led the extraction force -, likewise Al Baghdadi, wants to withdraw from NATO, etc, etc. So yes, he's a threat to national security.

To reiterate, I'm no fan of Johnson but I'd take him anytime over
Dustbyn.
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JC and Sinn Fein, Tories and the DUP....aka the Ulster Resistance. I guess one Paramilitary group is as good as the other.

The NHS was discussed with the US, so it is certainly on the table, although I agree not as a wholesale purchase, more likely something to protect US drug company patents, which will force a price rise.
Climate change is definitely off the table, at the behest of the US, our government could have done the same.....of course discussions with the US tend to always be one way.

If you don’t like JC, and you are not a fan of BJ, why vote for either?
This is not a two party system anymore. Tactical voting is just as valid these days.
 
in_the_top_one said:
Three errors just in your first sentence. Absolute nonsense.
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Go on then. You know I struggle to count to three. What are the problems ? Left wing teachers/lecturers?

https://theboar.org/2017/03/8-out-of-10-university-lecturers-are-left-wing/

Teachers work really hard (I know plenty of them), but many (like myself at the time) do years at school, Uni, teachers training (as it used to be), and back into school. I was far more experienced after working in industry, NHS etc than I was being in a school at 22.
 
Polly 433 said:
I will assume I didn’t make myself clear. My gripe isn’t with politicians it is with media and tv companies. The tv stations are making the rules for debate and instead of reporting the news are writing the news. Take the Tory leader election three months ago. The tv companies set up the stage so all the prospective candidates were perched on high stools. The camera was set at chest level. The next day the companies report on how they sat on the stools and manplanning.
Parties agreed that they wouldn’t participate in debates with party members who were not standing as MP’s. This was to ensure the likes of Milne and Cummings were not part of the debates. As it turned out it also meant Farage and Sturgeon couldn’t because they decided not to stand for office. Sturgeon and Swanson decide to take tv companies to court but fail. Debate between JC and BJ goes ahead but the format is that they both have to answer questions inside 40 seconds. Some questions were quite deep whilst others had sub questions. Only having 40 seconds to explain spending on NHS left both candidates answering in sound bytes. Next day headlines is about the answers being of no substance and sound bytes. I wonder why?
Sky invite Cleverly to a debate but he had already, three weeks prior, agreed to be on radio. Thus they interview a chair. Guess what the headlines were the next day. If our politicians come across as unstatesman like I wonder why?
The tv stations insist it is the leaders that take part in debate (at least that what they told the courts). On climate debate Channel 4 refuse the past environment minister Gove, to take part in the debate on the premise it is for leaders, despite the fact he is in the studio. BJ does not do detail well whilst Gove as ex minister would have had Facts and figures. How ever fact is not what tv station want they want tomorrows headline. Thus the block of ice wheeled in to replace Boris.
The following day Long Bailey and other s are allowed to debate and the party leader rule is abandoned until the next time it suits a tv channel.
I note your comment this am on the London Bridge bombings and police numbers as reported in the Guardian, so I assume you have some anxiety with the media and how they choose to report.
Unlike the press( who can support who their owners wish) the tv companies have a responsibility to report without biase. They equally set out to make the headlines rather than encourage fact and debate. This is my gripe.
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My thoughts exactly. The Conservatives ( who will get my vote) have decided that they want to win this election as they know that if you are not in power then you cant make policy. Hence they elect a leader who they think will get them votes, not good in front of tv cameras so as far as possible he doesnt do tv. Not rocket science is it? Labour on the other hand elect a leader pretty much guaranteed to loose them this election. No brains.
 
Lienking said:
First of all it's well known that teachers and University lecturers are more left wing (probably like politicians **1 and never worked in the real world **2) , and are probably brainwashing the students **3.
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1. So politicians are mostly left wing? The composition of the Hoc suggests you are wrong.
2. Not clear if this refers to politicians or teachers /lecturers. Either way, wrong. Very many politicians have gone into politics from other careers. Teaching and lecturing are both, self evidently, a proper job.
3. Brainwashing the students? Dear me. You've no idea. Don't believe the Turning Point fascists.
 
in_the_top_one said:
1. So politicians are mostly left wing? The composition of the Hoc suggests you are wrong.
2. Not clear if this refers to politicians or teachers /lecturers. Either way, wrong. Very many politicians have gone into politics from other careers. Teaching and lecturing are both, self evidently, a proper job.
3. Brainwashing the students? Dear me. You've no idea. Don't believe the Turning Point fascists.
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Number 1 is just a typo. I was referring to politicians and educators as people going into the respective professions straight from education. Nothing to do with politicians all being left wing. You are right that many haven't , but there are also plenty that have. How many years working experience do Corbyn, McDonnell etc have outside politics and working for Trade Unions ?
 
InvincibleBrianMan said:
His contempt for the working class is showing, but he doesn't realize because he is stuck in his Watnall bubble.
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I live in Hampshire actually, and you should know that deflection doesn't work, you should ask your mate Seamus.

As for being in a "bubble", that's a bit rich from someone who denies that there's a problem with anti-Semitism in the Labour party. Ever heard of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, or its investigation into the Labour party? A reminder on the link below:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...our-party-inquiry-jeremy-corbyn-a4298831.html

Or that labour is only the second political party after the BNP to be investigated by the EHRC, or doesn't Seamus allow that kind of discussion?
 
WatnallRed said:
I live in Hampshire actually, and you should know that deflection doesn't work, you should ask your mate Seamus.

As for being in a "bubble", that's a bit rich from someone who denies that there's a problem with anti-Semitism in the Labour party. Ever heard of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, or its investigation into the Labour party? A reminder on the link below:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...our-party-inquiry-jeremy-corbyn-a4298831.html

Or that labour is only the second political party after the BNP to be investigated by the EHRC, or doesn't Seamus allow that kind of discussion?
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But people like yourself are very concerned about antisemitism? Give me a break you hypocrite.
 
Feco said:
JC and Sinn Fein, Tories and the DUP....aka the Ulster Resistance. I guess one Paramilitary group is as good as the other.

The NHS was discussed with the US, so it is certainly on the table, although I agree not as a wholesale purchase, more likely something to protect US drug company patents, which will force a price rise.
Climate change is definitely off the table, at the behest of the US, our government could have done the same.....of course discussions with the US tend to always be one way.

If you don’t like JC, and you are not a fan of BJ, why vote for either?
This is not a two party system anymore. Tactical voting is just as valid these days.
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Not quite a realistic analogy between Corbyn's direct support for various terrorist groups - including ISIS believe it or not - and the Tories former "arrangement" with the DUP. Agreed that some Unionist paramilitary groups are just as despicable as the Nationalist political front Sinn Fein.

No, the NHS is not for sale, Corbyn knows that but still trots out the same crap. Yes, it was discussed - The documents highlighted by him were records of pre-meetings where each side sets out its preliminary position, not negotiations as he claimed. Who would agree a trade agreement which would add an additional £500m a week to the cost of drugs to the NHS? Absolute garbage, Corbyn knows that but assumes people are stupid enough to believe him.

Good point re voting. I used to vote Lib Dem, but they've also had, or might still have issues with anti-Semitism (see David Ward or Baroness Jennifer Tonge). To be honest, having seen some of the plans that Labour have I seriously believe that they are a threat to my family and our way of life, and I can assure you I'm by no means wealthy. I tend to vote Independent these days, a wasted vote maybe but I've not made up my mind who I'll be voting for; however it definitely will not be Labour.
 
Lienking said:
Maybe Boris is busy running the country, whilst Corbyn has never even run a sweet shop.

You only have to read the last pages to see the Corbyn threat. Are you old enough to remember secondary picketing and powerful unions bringing down governments (even Labour), and causing the country to grind to a halt? Never mind his mad spending plans. He's going to hand us £20k to £30k if he gets in, and I still can't believe that I would actually be better off. He will bankrupt us if he manages to do half of what he has said.
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Even by your standards that is a pish poor response.
 
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