Old Red Fart
Vital Champions League
Politics changed for me a while back, no longer do I vote for somebody, these days I just vote against the party I don't like.
And I suspect I'm not the only one.
And I suspect I'm not the only one.
Promotion or Tories Out?
- Thread starter Marco Polo
- Start date
Will.NFFC
Vital Football Hero
We didn't have any tuition fees until 1998. So I don't see your point. The labour market changed so much so people will be able to retrain. Another brilliant policy announced.
Lot's of countries don't have tuition fees.
If you listen to the right wing media it's just the left that throws personal insults. It just isn't true.
The number of people going to university
We didn't have any tuition fees until 1998. So I don't see your point. The labour market changed so much so people will be able to retrain. Another brilliant policy announced.
Lot's of countries don't have tuition fees.
If you listen to the right wing media it's just the left that throws personal insults. It just isn't true.
That’s because the number of people who go to uni now vs 1998 has increased massively and so the investment to support it would naturally need to be higher.
this will always be a subjective one as many believe all our youth should be university educated for free, but years ago the value of a degree was so much higher as less people had one and it stood out, whereas you’re almost in the minority if you’re without one these days
What I would say is, you don’t end up paying it back until you meet a certain salary threshold and therefore it does end up being free for many.
in regards to your second comment, it’s nothing to do with “right wing media” having you believe it’s just the left - I’ve witnessed it myself thanks. Yes it can be both sides but you need to get out the mentality that all those of a right persuasion have an evil agenda. Not everybody shares your opinion & it’s simple as that
JC21
Vital Football Hero
The 2008 crash was deliberately caused by banks, like every recession previous to it. This is when the greatest transfer of wealth goes upwards. As much as I hate Blair (and to a slightly lesser extent Brown) let's just put the myth that Labour crashed the economy to bed.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...sible-crash-bank-england-governor-mervyn-king
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6975536.stm
Basha73
Vital Football Legend
If only it worked that way...
da fuq
Vital Champions League
They said all the same stuff about Clement Attlee and his movement, promises they cant keep etc etc the same rhetoric every time a real socialist Govt is possible and people just keep falling for it
And you know what they delivered us the NHS on budget if in fact below budget could be wrong on that
They did all that after being skint after the war
What's the worst that could happen
Seriously think about it
They are in power for 4 years and we then vote them out
4 years
Then we can go back to having the Spivs in charge again and all of us serfs put back in our place licking thier boots
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da fuq
Vital Champions League
People of a certain background could not afford to do degrees that is one reason why not as many had them
I was the last year of the whole grants and loans system and I worked 3 nights a week in a pub to support myself in Sheffield
I still came out £6000 in debt and had to start paying it back once i started to earn over £27,000.
I was lucky. I have friends who finished the following year and they were coming out close to £30k in debt
The system is now again rigged against people from working class backgrounds
Old Red Fart
Vital Champions League
Am I the only one who finds this boring ? It's all been said before, many times.
And it's never changed any bodies mind yet !
And it's never changed any bodies mind yet !
da fuq
Vital Champions League
Am I the only one who finds this boring ? It's all been said before, many times.
And it's never changed any bodies mind yet !
Oh I love it and its obvious others do like to engage about it on the forum
And I've changed a few peoples minds on Brexit and voting against the Tories
ORF as always you dont have to read or engage
We live in a land of freedoms however the current Tory Govt and the media are giving North Korea a run for its money and thats said with all honesty
Old Red Fart
Vital Champions League
Agreed df to some extent but I'm sure you will understand that I'm just giving my opinion too. I know nothing about your media and North Korea but as usual I do have an opinion about that country and it's not complimentary so Ill leave it at that.
Calvin Plummer
Vital Football Legend
Come of it. He spent most of his backbench life speaking out or voting against European integration. During the campaign he was lukewarm at best - he himself said he was "7 out if 10" towards staying. He's driven out the likes of Watson over their anti Brexit stance. In parliament he has tried to have his cake and eat it, rather than having a clearly defined stance.
I've time for his perspective that the EU is centred too much around banks, but he hasn't the balls to articulate that position anymore because power means more to him.
As for my other point, I was just trying to highlight that there is good and bad on both sides of the divide. As labour was shitting all over our civil liberties a man like Davis who I generally dislike actually had the balls to abandon his position of power in order to fight those betrayals. That's to be admired.
da fuq
Vital Champions League
CP Watson has been a snake in the grass for a long long time and far from moderate, maybe you should look into who has been paying him of late for various activities
Also all you Leave voters you may want to have a good read of this
https://zelo-street.blogspot.com/2019/11/farage-on-roll-backwards.html?m=1
This is just one incident of many of major Brexit Party members falling out with Nigel and Boris
This will be UKIPs gain and more importantly Labours too
All Labour have to do is stay honest fight with integrity and stay in the background
The right wing spivs in the Tory party and leave parties are cannabolising each other
It's a great thing to see
Also all you Leave voters you may want to have a good read of this
https://zelo-street.blogspot.com/2019/11/farage-on-roll-backwards.html?m=1
This is just one incident of many of major Brexit Party members falling out with Nigel and Boris
This will be UKIPs gain and more importantly Labours too
All Labour have to do is stay honest fight with integrity and stay in the background
The right wing spivs in the Tory party and leave parties are cannabolising each other
It's a great thing to see
Calvin Plummer
Vital Football Legend
As opposed to the remain campaign? They've had no issues of late...
I'm not necessarily a Watson advocate, I'm just pointing out that both parties seem intent on driving moderates from their party. I'm never comfortable with ideological cleansing.
Calvin Plummer
Vital Football Legend
Simple question, if Labour win power what will they actually do about Brexit because it sure looks to me like they'll look to push it through, just with a customs union attached...
JC21
Vital Football Hero
There'll be a second referendum and there'll be one whoever's in power. Boris is the staunchest remainer possible and an establishment masquerading as a leaver.
InvincibleBrianMan
Vital 1st Team Regular
I think the policy is clear. If Labour gains power they will agree a new brexit deal (as mandated by the original referendum) then put it to the people who will have the choice of a better brexit or remain. (I can't see a better option at this point)
If there is a miracle and a "remain alliance" were to win and cancel brexit, there would be a massive backlash from the leave / right.
If there is a miracle and a "remain alliance" were to win and cancel brexit, there would be a massive backlash from the leave / right.
da fuq
Vital Champions League
Well unfortunately I dont know the answer to that
They have said they will negotiate a better deal of which they will tell us the exact details whilst negotiating - they will be transparent
It cant be any worse than a no deal or the deal that Vladimer Johnson wanted to push through which was worse than May's deal
Also remember it will be Keir Starmer doing the negotiations and he is not only respected in Europe he's easily one of the smarter MP's in our country and does not take any shit
They are also going to give us the option of a 2nd ref based on the details of the deal which we will know or ...we can vote to stay in the EU
This really is our only chance of stopping Brexit and saving the NHS
Forget tactical voting after the Brexit Party did what any one with half a brain knew they would do and make a pact with the Tories
It's a straight up fight now
Labour good and our NHS
Tories bad and NHS sold off to Yanks
It is a very clear battle ground now
The Lib dems are no longer in the battle IMHO
Calvin Plummer
Vital Football Legend
Corbyn has been explicit that the will of the people must be respected and their won't be a second referendum. When exactly did he flip flop?
Calvin Plummer
Vital Football Legend
So my choice is between shitty deal A or slightly less shitty deal B?
