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Only in America...

bristolimp said:
I think that’s the rescue mission

what a total mess, that said you question given the speed at which the taliban are taking over are they pushing against an open door?
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See also: Vietnam.

It's fascinating in a way (not a good way). The US has some of the brightest and most highly-qualified political and military analysts in the world with vast quantities of information at their finger-tips. But they have essentially learnt nothing from Vietnam and the Russian invasion of Afghanistan (and many other similar conflicts).

20 years ago, as they went in, I remember thinking "This won't end well".

They really should have listened to Bernard Fall and re-read "Road Without Joy".
 
NottyImp said:
See also: Vietnam.

It's fascinating in a way (not a good way). The US has some of the brightest and most highly-qualified political and military analysts in the world with vast quantities of information at their finger-tips. But they have essentially learnt nothing from Vietnam and the Russian invasion of Afghanistan (and many other similar conflicts).

20 years ago, as they went in, I remember thinking "This won't end well".

They really should have listened to Bernard Fall and re-read "Road Without Joy".
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there is a saying from WW2 that still applies - best dressed worst trained.

I think they will in their own minds at least view it as a success as the only reason they went in was to stop future attacks on their main land.

This cost 80B US Dollars, in todays money Vietnam cost 1 trillion US. Both scary numbers!
 
I don’t agree with his politics but Johnny Mercer has just been on the radio and asked what was the point of all of those British military deaths in Afghanistan if we’re just chucking it all in now? Someone with a slightly more rounded view of the world could also ask what was the point of all those deaths full stop?

Another power vacuum that the Taliban will occupy, giving them another foothold in the Middle East to export terror. And as you say Notty another example of completely muddled thinking (to put it politely) on behalf of the US and it’s allies.
 
And whilst I’m sat high up on this horse, it’s yet another example of where brainless nationalism gets you in politics. Jingoistic tubthumping idiots clamouring for ‘Britannia to rule the waves’ or for the ‘Leaders of the Free World’ love these foreign escapades as it makes them think the Emperor actually does have some clothes. Of course the cowards wouldn’t actually volunteer to sit in a compound and spend six months having rockets thrown at them, but they are still happy to wrap themselves in a flag and cry the charge on behalf of the poor young fuckers whose lives are on the line.
 
MaineRoad_96 said:
And whilst I’m sat high up on this horse, it’s yet another example of where brainless nationalism gets you in politics. Jingoistic tubthumping idiots clamouring for ‘Britannia to rule the waves’ or for the ‘Leaders of the Free World’ love these foreign escapades as it makes them think the Emperor actually does have some clothes. Of course the cowards wouldn’t actually volunteer to sit in a compound and spend six months having rockets thrown at them, but they are still happy to wrap themselves in a flag and cry the charge on behalf of the poor young fuckers whose lives are on the line.
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MaineRoad_96 said:
And whilst I’m sat high up on this horse, it’s yet another example of where brainless nationalism gets you in politics. Jingoistic tubthumping idiots clamouring for ‘Britannia to rule the waves’ or for the ‘Leaders of the Free World’ love these foreign escapades as it makes them think the Emperor actually does have some clothes. Of course the cowards wouldn’t actually volunteer to sit in a compound and spend six months having rockets thrown at them, but they are still happy to wrap themselves in a flag and cry the charge on behalf of the poor young fuckers whose lives are on the line.
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Whilst I share your disdain for the ill thought out interventions in foreign lands - usually having no clearly thought out resolution or exit strategy, before jumping in with both feet and ending up with a long and tragic drawn out mess; I do take issue with your obsession to link it to nationalism, tub thumping and Rule Britannia. It's not, it is usually to do with agenda driven, muddled political thinking.

I don't remember a clamour from certainly the British people, to get involved over there. I don't remember any marches from' flag shaggers' demanding that the UK drop whatever they are doing and go invade the next third world country that needs saving from itself. I haven't seen ANY glorification or jingoism as a result of the UK interventions in Afghanistan. I would even go as far to say as over the last couple of decades the mood within the nation has been overwhelmingly to NOT get involved in such reckless ventures.

I do recall the deep sadness and dignity of Royal Wootton Bassett serving as a focal point to try and resolve the unholy mess. I would also add that in my experience most service personnel (those whose lives are on the line), actually do tend to be the ones with a sense of patriotism, decency, discipline and service - characteristics you seem to hold in disdain.

It certainly isn't their fault that those virtues are twisted and exploited by inept political decisions and it is not at the behest of the UK public at large.

In fairness you do seem to link it to politics on this occasion and I hope you are making the distinction between the politicians and general public clear, as sometimes in your previous posts I get the feeling that many of the population are deemed tub thumping, nationalistic flag shaggers.
 
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hulloutpost said:
Whilst I share your disdain for the ill thought out interventions in foreign lands - usually having no clearly thought out resolution or exit strategy, before jumping in with both feet and ending up with a long and tragic drawn out mess; I do take issue with your obsession to link it to nationalism, tub thumping and Rule Britannia. It's not, it is usually to do with agenda driven, muddled political thinking.

I don't remember a clamour from certainly the British people, to get involved over there. I don't remember any marches from' flag shaggers' demanding that the UK drop whatever they are doing and go invade the next third world country that needs saving from itself. I haven't seen ANY glorification or jingoism as a result of the UK interventions in Afghanistan. I would even go as far to say as over the last couple of decades the mood within the nation has been overwhelmingly to NOT get involved in such reckless ventures.

I do recall the deep sadness and dignity of Royal Wootton Bassett serving as a focal point to try and resolve the unholy mess. I would also add that in my experience most service personnel (those whose lives are on the line), actually do tend to be the ones with a sense of patriotism, decency, discipline and service - characteristics you seem to hold in disdain.

It certainly isn't their fault that those virtues are twisted and exploited by inept political decisions and it is not at the behest of the UK public at large.

In fairness you do seem to link it to politics on this occasion and I hope you are making the distinction between the politicians and general public clear, as sometimes in your previous posts I get the feeling that many of the population are deemed tub thumping, nationalistic flag shaggers.
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You can hope what you like. Dont presume to tell me what distinctions I can draw or what characteristics I may or may not hold in disdain.

I’m not taking lessons from you on what service personnel may or may not think. I come from a service family and four generations have been in the army or the RAF. Every one of them without exception despise the politicians and yes, members of general public, who use the armed forces as some kind of badge to promote their disgusting brand of nationalism. If you can’t see how their service has been hijacked for other agendas over the last decade then you’re clearly being purposely obtuse, or just incredibly stupid.

My Grandad passed away five years ago. He fought in Greece and Egypt in WW2 and got awarded an MBE. He used to get dressed in his best every Rememberance Day and go and quietly pay his respects to his fallen comrades. He didn’t talk about it much and just wanted to live a quiet life with his family. The only time I saw him get angry was when the likes of your mate Farage popped up on TV hijacking the memory of decent people who suffered horrors we can only imagine.

You sit at home at three in the morning wanking off to videos of Farage and presume to tell people about patriotism. You’re an absolute embarrassment.
 
MaineRoad_96 said:
You can hope what you like. Dont presume to tell me what distinctions I can draw or what characteristics I may or may not hold in disdain.

I’m not taking lessons from you on what service personnel may or may not think. I come from a service family and four generations have been in the army or the RAF. Every one of them without exception despise the politicians and yes, members of general public, who use the armed forces as some kind of badge to promote their disgusting brand of nationalism. If you can’t see how their service has been hijacked for other agendas over the last decade then you’re clearly being purposely obtuse, or just incredibly stupid.

My Grandad passed away five years ago. He fought in Greece and Egypt in WW2 and got awarded an MBE. He used to get dressed in his best every Rememberance Day and go and quietly pay his respects to his fallen comrades. He didn’t talk about it much and just wanted to live a quiet life with his family. The only time I saw him get angry was when the likes of your mate Farage popped up on TV hijacking the memory of decent people who suffered horrors we can only imagine.

You sit at home at three in the morning wanking off to videos of Farage and presume to tell people about patriotism. You’re an absolute embarrassment.
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I find it very strange that you link so much negativity to patriotism and a sense of national identity, yet the military people who often extol characteristics of service to their country with an extremely deep sense of loyalty (patriotism and a sense of national identity) you are very supportive of. That's a good thing, but it does seem a little paradoxical and hypocritical on your part. I'm surprised you cannot see that.

I'm not going to get into an undignified virtue signalling, wall pissing competition about service family backgrounds. I dare say most families have their fair share of people that have served in the military and I'll simply say that involves my own.

What I don't understand, is your apparent obsession with linking so many ills in the country with the 'evils' of nationalism and patriotism.

There are a tiny, tiny minority of right wing nut jobs that are out there shagging the flag. Many people are simply pleased to live in the country with the privileges and virtues that we do, having a sense of patriotism with a little p. There are more people out there actively denigrating the UK and it's values on a daily basis, than those that would subvert it in a nationalistic sense, in my opinion.

I don't see the link between politicians and nationalism, so far as invading other countries goes (since Blair and the country learnt the lesson), and I see your linking of the two issues as disingenuous at worst and tenuous at best on your part. You may have had a point if you linked politicians and the subject of Brexit as something that was exploited to try and boost the vote from a few sheep who couldn't make their own mind up, but not everything is some hard right, nut job conspiracy from a frothing mass of xenophobic Brits and band of exploitative politicians.

I don't see all these people wrapping themselves in the flag, the colonial past, imperialism, glory days, wars et al, on a daily or highly visual basis. In fact apart from the aforementioned tiny minority of nutters, the people that seem to be living in the past, bringing it up ad nauseum and can't let it go are people like your self. Perhaps you are the one that presumes to keep telling everyone what patriotism is or shouldn't be.
 
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Ill let all the other bullshit go as it’s not getting anywhere but virtue signalling on that subject? You can fuck right off you twat.
 
MaineRoad_96 said:
You’re a fucking idiot, that much is obvious.
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Oh my, I've been insulted again. That will cause me to stop having my own views and opinions. It may even persuade me that your statements are all completely correct and I really should just agree that everything you say is gospel.
 
hulloutpost said:
Oh my, I've been insulted again. That will cause me to stop having my own views and opinions. It may even persuade me that your statements are all completely correct and I really should just agree that everything you say is gospel.
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You have a fit when someone pulls you up on your arrant bullshit and complete and total misunderstanding of what people have posted. Get back to your middle of the night rants against the world - everyone can see you for what you are.
 
bristolimp said:
there is a saying from WW2 that still applies - best dressed worst trained.

I think they will in their own minds at least view it as a success as the only reason they went in was to stop future attacks on their main land.

This cost 80B US Dollars, in todays money Vietnam cost 1 trillion US. Both scary numbers!
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I think that figure is way out. This article says Afghanistan has cost nearly 1 trillion dollars up to 2019:

"The US spent a staggering $978bn on the Afghan war between October 2001 and the end of 2019."

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...n-a-humanitarian-disaster-is-already-in-train
 
MaineRoad_96 said:
You have a fit when someone pulls you up on your arrant bullshit and complete and total misunderstanding of what people have posted. Get back to your middle of the night rants against the world - everyone can see you for what you are.
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Nice try at projecting your own abuse and 'fits' onto me "when someone pulls you up on your arrant bullshit" when someone has the temerity to not simply accept everything you say unquestioningly.

Not sure about that? Why don't you check the history of our posts and see which one of us loses it and resorts to playground name calling and which one of us doesn't ;)
 
hulloutpost said:
Nice try at projecting your own abuse and 'fits' onto me "when someone pulls you up on your arrant bullshit" when someone has the temerity to not simply accept everything you say unquestioningly.

Not sure about that? Why don't you check the history of our posts and see which one of us loses it and resorts to playground name calling and which one of us doesn't ;)
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Im well aware, sadly, of the history of your posts. You’re an ignorant idiot, you get what you deserve. And judging by the tragic 3am rants you know it as well.
 
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