Mirror claim feeling of negativity about Jose

[SmithAndJones]

Our two recent fixtures against Liverpool and City, and the extent to which we were outclassed in both games, raises the question as to what progress, if any, is being made under Mourinho. To my mind not only are we not making any progress, we are going backwards at an alarming rate.
I don't buy in to the school of thought that says we are a team in transition. Next season we'll be in transition, with another new manager, and no Kane or Son.

 

[steveperryman]

Our two recent fixtures against Liverpool and City, and the extent to which we were outclassed in both games, raises the question as to what progress, if any, is being made under Mourinho. To my mind not only are we not making any progress, we are going backwards at an alarming rate.
I don't buy in to the school of thought that says we are a team in transition. Next season we'll be in transition, with another new manager, and no Kane or Son.

Well compare where we are to Liverpool for a moment. They are on the slide & they shattered their transfer record only 2 years ago. They failed to improve their squad the following season & look at the state they're in now. We did the very same for 2 seasons & compounded matters by bringing in a new manager. Therefore we're most definitely a team in transition now.

 

[SmithAndJones]

Well compare where we are to Liverpool for a moment. They are on the slide & they shattered their transfer record only 2 years ago. They failed to improve their squad the following season & look at the state they're in now. We did the very same for 2 seasons & compounded matters by bringing in a new manager. Therefore we're most definitely a team in transition now.

Fair comment Steve, but I can't help feel that Liverpool, although they won't hit the heights of the last two seasons, are better placed all round to reverse their current slide, and head back in the right direction. I'm not sure that we are particularly well placed or well enough managed to do that. We seem to be transitioning in the wrong direction.
Liverpool are a classic case though of how much one player can mean to a team. The loss of Van Dijk for almost the entire season so far has been massive for them.

 

[steveperryman]

Fair comment Steve, but I can't help feel that Liverpool, although they won't hit the heights of the last two seasons, are better placed all round to reverse their current slide, and head back in the right direction. I'm not sure that we are particularly well placed or well enough managed to do that. We seem to be transitioning in the wrong direction.
Liverpool are a classic case though of how much one player can mean to a team. The loss of Van Dijk for almost the entire season so far has been massive for them.

I tell you what, we're only a couple of players away from turning this around ourselves. We don't need to do a Chelsea & bring in half a squad. Look how that's working out for them. We just need to be smart & bring in the right guys.

Liverpool's slide will continue unless they delve into the market again. Everybody else has either caught up or in City's case already surpassed them.

 

[Gary Onedaysoon]

I tell you what, we're only a couple of players away from turning this around ourselves. We don't need to do a Chelsea & bring in half a squad. Look how that's working out for them. We just need to be smart & bring in the right guys.

Liverpool's slide will continue unless they delve into the market again. Everybody else has either caught up or in City's case already surpassed them.

But if the only way Jose can turn this around is to buy new players where is the money coming from? With Bergwijn last winter and the summer transfer window we had a net spend of probably more than £50m. A lot more than most clubs.

If we sell Kane to raise funds we'll need to replace him. How much will his replacement cost? Likewise with any other quality player.

In the short term I would rather Jose concentrates on improving the players we already have. If he's anything like the manager he was he should be quite capable of making a number of our players better.

But is he still capable though? Defence is his strength but when I go through our defenders I don't see improvements in any of them since he's arrived. And he's been here for 15 months now. What he's done to make the defence stronger is bring back our AMs and forwards. It's through sheer weight of numbers that we defend successfully - on the rare occasions we do. But any manager could do that.

 

[Real Deal]

I tell you what, we're only a couple of players away from turning this around ourselves. We don't need to do a Chelsea & bring in half a squad. Look how that's working out for them. We just need to be smart & bring in the right guys.

Liverpool's slide will continue unless they delve into the market again. Everybody else has either caught up or in City's case already surpassed them.

I think you are in denial.

All you have to do is look at our first 11 to see how far we have fallen.

We have 4 players that are good enough to help us compete at the top end of the table. Reggie, Hojbjerg, Son and Kane.

The rest are either injury prone, on the decline or just bang average.

I wouldn't bet against Kane, Reggie leaving this summer.

Then we have a negative dinosaur as our manger.

He is toast. He isn't turning this around.

 

[USAFSPURS]

I think you are in denial.

All you have to do is look at our first 11 to see how far we have fallen.

We have 4 players that are good enough to help us compete at the top end of the table. Reggie, Hojbjerg, Son and Kane.

The rest are either injury prone, on the decline or just bang average.

I wouldn't bet against Kane, Reggie leaving this summer.

Then we have a negative dinosaur as our manger.

He is toast. He isn't turning this around.

I agree.

 

[Pompey Yid]

I think you are in denial.

All you have to do is look at our first 11 to see how far we have fallen.

We have 4 players that are good enough to help us compete at the top end of the table. Reggie, Hojbjerg, Son and Kane.

The rest are either injury prone, on the decline or just bang average.

I wouldn't bet against Kane, Reggie leaving this summer.

Then we have a negative dinosaur as our manger.

He is toast. He isn't turning this around.

Haha Real, dinosaur....I saw somewhere....Moaninosarous Pastis to describe our illustrious leader.

 

[SmithAndJones]

I think you are in denial.

All you have to do is look at our first 11 to see how far we have fallen.

We have 4 players that are good enough to help us compete at the top end of the table. Reggie, Hojbjerg, Son and Kane.

The rest are either injury prone, on the decline or just bang average.

I wouldn't bet against Kane, Reggie leaving this summer.

Then we have a negative dinosaur as our manger.

He is toast. He isn't turning this around.

Agree entirely. I'd probably add Ndombele to the four you mention, but he also falls into the injury prone category, whereby it's by no means certain that he'll ever fully establish himself as one of the PL's best midfielders.

 

[Gary Onedaysoon]

I think you are in denial.

All you have to do is look at our first 11 to see how far we have fallen.

We have 4 players that are good enough to help us compete at the top end of the table. Reggie, Hojbjerg, Son and Kane.

The rest are either injury prone, on the decline or just bang average.

I wouldn't bet against Kane, Reggie leaving this summer.

Then we have a negative dinosaur as our manger.

He is toast. He isn't turning this around.

Agree entirely. I'd probably add Ndombele to the four you mention, but he also falls into the injury prone category, whereby it's by no means certain that he'll ever fully establish himself as one of the PL's best midfielders.

I'd add Gio to that list. I have high hopes for Tanga. Sanchez may still come good. Stones was written off at City but he's having a great season now, so it's not too late for Sanchez. We have other, younger players who have scope for improvement.

I don't think things are so bleak. We have a good nucleus to build on. Whether we have the manager, I'm far less convinced.

 

[pjones40]

I suspect the answer is far more complex than I've got time to go into this morning, but what I do know is that Jose's style of management is to big up favourites and destroy those who aren't - in a squad that was once tight knit that's probably hard to swallow.

But at the end of the day, it's down to jose to be smart enough and wise enough to get the best out of what he's got.

I still don't believe he's achieving that, so that's down to him and his staff.

I still hope he can turn it around, but I'm still doubtful that he'll understand the issues he's caused and the tactical mistakes that he's made that has cost us so many points.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter of one thing I'm now certain, Levy is going to give him the whole season no matter what and almost certainly next as well.

I was looking at that ex. Dele and Dier used to be so close often seen out together and posting together. I don't know if this is 100% true but I hear they are are not close. Jose is obviously driving a wedge within the team. I have never seen a manager so openly seem to be so clueless. He is bad mouthing players freezing them out and then throwing them on to save his bacon. Apart from Kane ,Son , Hojbjerg and Hugo he has no loyalty to know one. He has signed players and still treats them bad , giving very little time to get settled. People can say our team is stale but we have brought in players to freshen it up but they are still poor. Jose keep banging on about how happy he is with the togetherness at the end of every game only shows how much he is driving the team apart. Jose takes the blame it lies on his head and he has to go

 

[Nick Real Deal]

But if the only way Jose can turn this around is to buy new players where is the money coming from? With Bergwijn last winter and the summer transfer window we had a net spend of probably more than £50m. A lot more than most clubs.

If we sell Kane to raise funds we'll need to replace him. How much will his replacement cost? Likewise with any other quality player.

In the short term I would rather Jose concentrates on improving the players we already have. If he's anything like the manager he was he should be quite capable of making a number of our players better.

But is he still capable though? Defence is his strength but when I go through our defenders I don't see improvements in any of them since he's arrived. And he's been here for 15 months now. What he's done to make the defence stronger is bring back our AMs and forwards. It's through sheer weight of numbers that we defend successfully - on the rare occasions we do. But any manager could do that.

On defensive improvement I think Aurier has , Jose told him he is worried with him giving pens away. Aurier is still nuts but perhaps less rash. Toby is in decline and I'm not sure Jose or anyone can stop that. Dier is being schooled into a CB position and I would say is improving. Davies has limitations but his attitude is strong. Reggie as a signing is a bonus, Rodon is promising, Doherty is a disappointment at the moment and I dont think Jose rates him. He was having to coach him from the touchline, telling him where to be etc. But by doing that Jose is trying to improve him.
Hojbjerg was a good signing but Jose needs to manage his minutes better and bring the level of Winks up and bring back Skipp at season end. Winks could be a personality problem, he thinks he is better than he is if we can see it, Jose can....so what does he do ?

 

[Gary Onedaysoon]

On defensive improvement I think Aurier has , Jose told him he is worried with him giving pens away. Aurier is still nuts but perhaps less rash. Toby is in decline and I'm not sure Jose or anyone can stop that. Dier is being schooled into a CB position and I would say is improving. Davies has limitations but his attitude is strong. Reggie as a signing is a bonus, Rodon is promising, Doherty is a disappointment at the moment and I dont think Jose rates him. He was having to coach him from the touchline, telling him where to be etc. But by doing that Jose is trying to improve him.
Hojbjerg was a good signing but Jose needs to manage his minutes better and bring the level of Winks up and bring back Skipp at season end. Winks could be a personality problem, he thinks he is better than he is if we can see it, Jose can....so what does he do ?

Of the long list of players you name you've only identified improvement in two of those. I wouldn't agree with Aurier. When he has looked good it's been with Sissoko doubling up and Berg playing deep in front of him. Dier had started to improve but has regressed.

 

[muttley]

Of the long list of players you name you've only identified improvement in two of those. I wouldn't agree with Aurier. When he has looked good it's been with Sissoko doubling up and Berg playing deep in front of him. Dier had started to improve but has regressed.

Also, what if the improvement doesn't get you to the desired standard? That defines exactly what Aurier has become. Japhet showed in 90 mins more first touch, passing, reading of the game than a 28 year old international captain. City passed their way around Sissoko who didn't have the football brain to figure out why. He just plays with his heart and any decent footballer just negates his strength, pace and power by not even letting him near the ball.

At least with Dier, there is a football brain. He's in adjustment mode and also playing on the unnatural left. Still one of the best "squad" players in the top flight.

 

[SmithAndJones]

I'd add Gio to that list. I have high hopes for Tanga. Sanchez may still come good. Stones was written off at City but he's having a great season now, so it's not too late for Sanchez. We have other, younger players who have scope for improvement.

I don't think things are so bleak. We have a good nucleus to build on. Whether we have the manager, I'm far less convinced.

I think that there are three main issues here Gary.
- As per RD's original post we have four, possibly five, maybe six players, although I'm not sure about Lo Celso being a top level AM, who are genuinely at a level where we could be considered realistic top three challengers.
- If expectations are lowered realistically however, we have that nucleus of quality and some promising younger players, albeit that they won't all develop into top level players. What we have however, with one or two additions, should be plenty good enough to cement our position in the top six, with scope to crack on further.
- We had an interesting exchange on here a week or so ago, comparing the respective merits of Leicester's squad with ours. It is in fact difficult to make a case for Leicester having a stronger squad than us, yet they continue to progress upwards, whilst we are in danger of entering complete free fall.
What is the difference. The difference is that they have a motivated team with a good mix of youth and experience, who play for one another and their manager, who increasingly develops as one of the most progressive and motivational managers in the game.
We seem to have a demotivated and torn team managed by a self obsessed yesterdays man, with possibly an increasing number of want away players who are simply unhappy with a style of play that does not play to their strengths, and offers little chance of success.

 

[Gary Onedaysoon]

I think that there are three main issues here Gary.
- As per RD's original post we have four, possibly five, maybe six players, although I'm not sure about Lo Celso being a top level AM, who are genuinely at a level where we could be considered realistic top three challengers.
- If expectations are lowered realistically however, we have that nucleus of quality and some promising younger players, albeit that they won't all develop into top level players. What we have however, with one or two additions, should be plenty good enough to cement our position in the top six, with scope to crack on further.
- We had an interesting exchange on here a week or so ago, comparing the respective merits of Leicester's squad with ours. It is in fact difficult to make a case for Leicester having a stronger squad than us, yet they continue to progress upwards, whilst we are in danger of entering complete free fall.
What is the difference. The difference is that have a motivated team with a good mix of youth and experience, who play for one another and their manager, who increasingly develops as one of the most progressive and motivational managers in the game.
We seem to have a demotivated and torn team managed by a self obsessed yesterdays man, with possibly an increasing number of want away players who are simply unhappy with a style of play that does not play to their strengths, and offers little chance of success.

Yes, good points. When I was suggesting we still have the nucleus of a good team, it was a team capable of challenging for a top 4 place. We're light years away from Man City and probably Liverpool when their key players return.

 

[Nick Real Deal]

In squad quality we are behind maybe 5 teams excluding Leicester. So why is Jose expected to perform miracles ?
It has been proved time and time again that money buys success in this league. Even Leicester's title has some FFP doubts and was a freak that bucked the trend.

 

[xvausch]

The insistence that this current spurs squad is anything less than a top4 quality side MINIMUM is absolutely baffling to me.

And some posters seems to have really soured on a group of players they'd recently hailed as excellent.

Funny.

I am a broken record.... It's not the world class players we just spent historic & record amounts on, beating the best clubs in the world to their signings. But yeah, they're suddenly all shite.

No, It's the stoopid Mgr. And that's as plain as the nose on your face.

.

 

[steveperryman]

I think you are in denial.

All you have to do is look at our first 11 to see how far we have fallen.

We have 4 players that are good enough to help us compete at the top end of the table. Reggie, Hojbjerg, Son and Kane.

The rest are either injury prone, on the decline or just bang average.

I wouldn't bet against Kane, Reggie leaving this summer.

Then we have a negative dinosaur as our manger.

He is toast. He isn't turning this around.

Some of the players you mention are top draw, there's no getting away from that. Our problem is that we stood still for too long & now we're playing catch up. The players brought in & the players out on loan could all still come good, or perhaps not. My point is we have to bridge that gap with loans & the like & that's what's hurting us at the moment. We aren't bringing in players for the long term, we're bringing them in to plug the gaps in our squad & it isn't really working as desired.

Jose isn't going to resolve this overnight. He did well early doors taking us from 14th up to an impressive 6th (considering the circumstances). He had his fair share of luck but in my view you make your own luck in life.

Early season he had us top of the league & got us to another Cup Final. League Cup or not, it's an impressive feat in your first full season.

What i have noticed recently is his constant tinkering with the back line. His whole career has been built around his defensive formations. What has changed in that regard that's made him take this course of action?

 

[Real Deal]

Our defence is poor Steve. Having said that I'm amazed that Jose has failed to organise the team.