Mauricio Pochettino

[Nick Real Deal]

Our usual predictable tactics were explained by EX....basically loads of ball retention (side to side to backwards to side) until the opposition are physically and mentally tired out and then go offensive and win the game.

Couldn’t do that against City because they pressed us so well so we hardly had any ball retention so whether packing the central area was tactics or just forced upon us by City I don’t know...from memory we had one cohesive attack that resulted in Lamela’s well taken goal which resulted from the breakdown of the City press.

However, games against City or Liverpool are not the benchmark for tactics it is the games against the likes of Newcastle, West Ham, Brighton and a host of other bus parkers where the lack of viable tactics become visible, as Sunday’s game showed, plus the number of games over the past couple of seasons where the team are on the beach for the first half of games.

The game at Anfield last season highlighted the good and bad of Poch’s tactical approaches....for 25 minutes the two best FBs in the league which are essential to Liverpool’s tactics were allowed free reign to run wild and we were under extreme pressure...to Poch’s credit he altered our formation to a back 4 and nullified the threat....but you have to ask what he was thinking with the initial set-up.

On one hand the desire to have a stable manager to keep developing the team and delivering success in the Alex Ferguson model is understandable but on the other that model can lead to stagnation if the manager runs out of innovative ideas. To be fair to Poch, 4 consecutive CL seasons, given the financial constraints of the club, must be viewed as success but against that big picture has come the visible decline in performances and recent run of results this year....yes we reached the CL final, mainly thanks to individual brilliance, goalposts and VAR but then the final itself revealed the true state of our game.

For me, Poch has run out of ideas and his public persona is not that of a leader who inspires confidence. I think he has reached his limit with us and should move on, with thanks from all of us for what he has achieved...won’t happen though.

So we change our tactics to suit our opponents style. If it's a decent side we will strengthen the MF and sit deeper which creates chances on the break. It's not rocket science but it's not our usual style.

We need some influx of creative play of course to break down bus parkers, our new signings could help and Alli coming back with an already sharp Lamela may help.

I don't agree we are one dimensional and it's too early in the season. The argument of carrying on last season's form is unfair because we have new players to integrate.

I have little expectation for this season and it's worth considering how one feels on that to try and soften the potential over reaction.

 

[Spursex]

There were opportunities for runners in the game...once or twice I think I saw someone like Son make a move only to be ignored by the player in possession in favour of sideways safety....similarly, Sissoko and KWP had the option to play behind the defence for one or other to run onto but opted to play backwards...I’ve said on here in other posts, lo Celso and ND thrive on moving forward and having runners but unless Poch changes his tactics the runners still won’t be there.

tactically, you look for the runners like Son to make the runs to draw a defender away from his positioning - if it doesn't happen - which is what did happen with Son on two occasions I recall, you pass to hold possession and probe again.

It isn't the tactics, it's the players having the awareness and the guts to take risks when it's necessary and that is what was lacking - and that (generally) is footballing intelligence/experience, which seems to desert us when Sissoko/Winks are on the ball, in almost exactly the same way it did with Dembele - with Dembele at that time, he had no excuse as we had a fast recovery player(s) if we did lose the ball and we recyclyed quickly as their attack stretched them - what we seem to have done is lose that confidence in our ability to conceed the ball and recover / recycle quickly - at least that what I saw as I painfully and slowly watched the game.

 

[Nick Real Deal]

tactically, you look for the runners like Son to make the runs to draw a defender away from his positioning - if it doesn't happen - which is what did happen with Son on two occasions I recall, you pass to hold possession and probe again.

It isn't the tactics, it's the players having the awareness and the guts to take risks when it's necessary and that is what was lacking - and that (generally) is footballing intelligence/experience, which seems to desert us when Sissoko/Winks are on the ball, in almost exactly the same way it did with Dembele - with Dembele at that time, he had no excuse as we had a fast recovery player(s) if we did lose the ball and we recyclyed quickly as their attack stretched them - what we seem to have done is lose that confidence in our ability to conceed the ball and recover / recycle quickly - at least that what I saw as I painfully and slowly watched the game.

We obviously didn't want to concede another goal by losing possession and exposing our poor defence again. I can understand the safety first mentality. I don't like it though.

 

[USAFSPURS]

Seriously, if N'dombele played, we'd have won that game. What is clear is that without Dele, Lo Celso at ease and embedded and in the absence of N'dombele how do we change our offensive play to create runners and be more creative.

In my honest opinion...I think we are defining how to take a good team on the verge of being great and tearing it apart. I think I have heard MP talk of a rebuild...WTF!!! Rebuild, we were already built...we just needed to fill in a few small holes...now we have flipping gaping chest wounds to fix.

Falling apart before our eyes Ex...hope I am wrong, but it doesn't look good. Honestly I think we need a full rebuild now. Disgusts me to even say it.

 

[Harry-Kari]

tactically, you look for the runners like Son to make the runs to draw a defender away from his positioning - if it doesn't happen - which is what did happen with Son on two occasions I recall, you pass to hold possession and probe again.

It isn't the tactics, it's the players having the awareness and the guts to take risks when it's necessary and that is what was lacking - and that (generally) is footballing intelligence/experience, which seems to desert us when Sissoko/Winks are on the ball, in almost exactly the same way it did with Dembele - with Dembele at that time, he had no excuse as we had a fast recovery player(s) if we did lose the ball and we recyclyed quickly as their attack stretched them - what we seem to have done is lose that confidence in our ability to conceed the ball and recover / recycle quickly - at least that what I saw as I painfully and slowly watched the game.

I agree EX except I think the intelligence has been coached out of the players in favour of ball retention at all costs which to my mind equates to tactics, at least at one level.

With regard to pulling the defender out of position, there was still nothing to stop playing a ball in behind that defender for Son to run on to...difficult to execute yes but at least turns the defence...hopefully this is where ND and loCo will come into their own, but at the moment it seems totally alien to Poch’s culture.

 

[muttley]

tactically, you look for the runners like Son to make the runs to draw a defender away from his positioning - if it doesn't happen - which is what did happen with Son on two occasions I recall, you pass to hold possession and probe again.

It isn't the tactics, it's the players having the awareness and the guts to take risks when it's necessary and that is what was lacking - and that (generally) is footballing intelligence/experience, which seems to desert us when Sissoko/Winks are on the ball, in almost exactly the same way it did with Dembele - with Dembele at that time, he had no excuse as we had a fast recovery player(s) if we did lose the ball and we recyclyed quickly as their attack stretched them - what we seem to have done is lose that confidence in our ability to conceed the ball and recover / recycle quickly - at least that what I saw as I painfully and slowly watched the game.

There's a couple of key ingredients to running forward with the ball. One is through sheer pace and skill. The other is through your team mates creating the passing options i.e. the diversions to create the space. Unfortunately, our lot aren't doing that. There's never more than one pass on and most of the time it's sideways or backwards.

Additionally, if I was Winks and did chance my arm and drove into the heart of the opposition, what would happen if I lost it and got over committed. Would Son or Moura switch on and get their arses back and cover in for me. Not on the evidence of the last 18 months.

Ultimately, we've stopped being a team like we were in the 16/17 season. We're not defending as a team and we're not attacking as a team. I have no clue what Poch and his coaches are doing on the training pitch.

I'm also going to be controversial. My belief is that if you removed Sissoko from the team, you'd see more ball playing footballers on a wavelength. It's not that he's done anything wrong but his style doesn't seem right for what we need. Some would argue he runs forward with the ball. He can look great on the MOTD highlights, but most of the time it's blind alleys and cramping the space for the full-back to run into. Not to mention, leaving the holes behind him. It would be a risk to drop him as he gives 110% (unlike others) but I'm feeling we're getting closer to that point now.

 

[Deleted member 7310]

There's a couple of key ingredients to running forward with the ball. One is through sheer pace and skill. The other is through your team mates creating the passing options i.e. the diversions to create the space. Unfortunately, our lot aren't doing that. There's never more than one pass on and most of the time it's sideways or backwards.

Additionally, if I was Winks and did chance my arm and drove into the heart of the opposition, what would happen if I lost it and got over committed. Would Son or Moura switch on and get their arses back and cover in for me. Not on the evidence of the last 18 months.

Ultimately, we've stopped being a team like we were in the 16/17 season. We're not defending as a team and we're not attacking as a team. I have no clue what Poch and his coaches are doing on the training pitch.

I'm also going to be controversial. My belief is that if you removed Sissoko from the team, you'd see more ball playing footballers on a wavelength. It's not that he's done anything wrong but his style doesn't seem right for what we need. Some would argue he runs forward with the ball. He can look great on the MOTD highlights, but most of the time it's blind alleys and cramping the space for the full-back to run into. Not to mention, leaving the holes behind him. It would be a risk to drop him as he gives 110% (unlike others) but I'm feeling we're getting closer to that point now.

Not controversial at all, Sissoko is a liability.

 

[Gary Onedaysoon]

I agree EX except I think the intelligence has been coached out of the players in favour of ball retention at all costs which to my mind equates to tactics, at least at one level.

With regard to pulling the defender out of position, there was still nothing to stop playing a ball in behind that defender for Son to run on to...difficult to execute yes but at least turns the defence...hopefully this is where ND and loCo will come into their own, but at the moment it seems totally alien to Poch’s culture.

Totally agree. The only highlight of the game for me was Lo Celso's pass to Kane which brought the penalty appeal. The first positive was Lo Celso's ability to find space. The second was that he knew before receiving the ball exactly what he was going to do with. His pass showed great speed of thought and execution. It probably contributed to Lascelles' stumbling.

 

[Nick Real Deal]

Totally agree. The only highlight of the game for me was Lo Celso's pass to Kane which brought the penalty appeal. The first positive was Lo Celso's ability to find space. The second was that he knew before receiving the ball exactly what he was going to do with. His pass showed great speed of thought and execution. It probably contributed to Lascelles' stumbling.

The first poitive I saw was very early when Rose put in a diagonal cross which dissected the defenders in the box onto Mouras head which he put over the bar unfortunately.

 

[Spursex]

In my honest opinion...I think we are defining how to take a good team on the verge of being great and tearing it apart. I think I have heard MP talk of a rebuild...WTF!!! Rebuild, we were already built...we just needed to fill in a few small holes...now we have flipping gaping chest wounds to fix.

Falling apart before our eyes Ex...hope I am wrong, but it doesn't look good. Honestly I think we need a full rebuild now. Disgusts me to even say it.

You are never ever 'built' in football; there are too many moving parts, differing agenda's, career decisions to make, money and tax implications have a huge massive effect on agents/players decision making as they reach the end of their PL careers.

At least 5, possibly 6 players came back from the World Cup telling Poch that they would all be looking to move on - I think and have been told that he believed he could 'manage' it. But things / events happen and that optimism disappeared in the latter stages of last season.

It's a combination of influences and events that have brought this discord about and once again I lay much of it on Poch's bizarre protestations.

 

[Gary Onedaysoon]

The first poitive I saw was very early when Rose put in a diagonal cross which dissected the defenders in the box onto Mouras head which he put over the bar unfortunately.

If we can get excited by a full back putting in a half decent cross then things really are bad. But to put my comment in context, it was about our AMs/midfielders playing passes in between defenders into the penalty area for our forwards to run on to. We have seen precious little of that of late but Lo Celso's pass at least provides some hope for the future.

 

[Spursex]

If we can get excited by a full back putting in a half decent cross then things really are bad. But to put my comment in context, it was about our AMs/midfielders playing passes in between defenders into the penalty area for our forwards to run on to. We have seen precious little of that of late but Lo Celso's pass at least provides some hope for the future.

As I said even before we signed them; N'dombele and Lo Celso have the capability to transform our play.

 

[USAFSPURS]

You are never ever 'built' in football; there are too many moving parts, differing agenda's, career decisions to make, money and tax implications have a huge massive effect on agents/players decision making as they reach the end of their PL careers.

At least 5, possibly 6 players came back from the World Cup telling Poch that they would all be looking to move on - I think and have been told that he believed he could 'manage' it. But things / events happen and that optimism disappeared in the latter stages of last season.

It's a combination of influences and events that have brought this discord about and once again I lay much of it on Poch's bizarre protestations.

I agree, this is why the multiple windows without activity is paying us back now. Inflow and outflow of players is natural.

But I think the crux of the issue is poor leadership. Financially the club is sound, but we are rudderless, on and off the pitch. (at least it looks that way)

 

[Spursex]

I agree, this is why the multiple windows without activity is paying us back now. Inflow and outflow of players is natural.

But I think the crux of the issue is poor leadership. Financially the club is sound, but we are rudderless, on and off the pitch. (at least it looks that way)

We really aren't, but I do think that more decisive decision-making should have made.

Leadership is partly about being seen to lead and getting ahead of malign influences and surprise events; to this extent, we're lacking. The public needs to see leadership and what we're getting is more pyscho babble and equivocations.

 

[Harry-Kari]

Maybe Poch saw the title of that book Driving Over Lemons and has been traumatised ever since?

 

[spurdon]

tactically, you look for the runners like Son to make the runs to draw a defender away from his positioning - if it doesn't happen - which is what did happen with Son on two occasions I recall, you pass to hold possession and probe again.

It isn't the tactics, it's the players having the awareness and the guts to take risks when it's necessary and that is what was lacking - and that (generally) is footballing intelligence/experience, which seems to desert us when Sissoko/Winks are on the ball, in almost exactly the same way it did with Dembele - with Dembele at that time, he had no excuse as we had a fast recovery player(s) if we did lose the ball and we recyclyed quickly as their attack stretched them - what we seem to have done is lose that confidence in our ability to conceed the ball and recover / recycle quickly - at least that what I saw as I painfully and slowly watched the game.

Alright now heres the weird thing if anyone recalls my long standing opinion of the player. I think we would be improved by Zaha, because he will carry the ball quickly over 50 or60 yards at pace. By dint of the way he plays he would force Sissoko and Winks out of the endless recycling of possession. It's not my preferred option to play this way but it would ask way more questions of sides like Newcastle than we did on Saturday. Im very disillusioned to be honest.

 

[Spursex]

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...window-eriksen-vs-arsenal-derby-a9082976.html

Tottenham’s troubles: Mauricio Pochettino’s inflexibility, the European transfer window and a team gone stale

Whereas Spurs used to look so defiantly restless, the side now looks stale and deflated. Exactly what is going on?

• Miguel Delaney Chief Football Writer @MiguelDelaney
• 2 hours ago

The Tottenham Hotspur squad are as puzzled by the situation as anyone else. Although the natural presumption would be that there’s some big story behind Mauricio Pochettino dropping Jan Vertonghen, it certainly doesn’t seem that way.

There’s been no big blow-up. There’s certainly been no punch-up. There’s just been the same refrain from many close to the squad. “It’s just typical Pochettino,” they say.



It’s a decision taken without any apparent explanation, one that the manager will stubbornly persist with until the moment he doesn’t – as has been precisely the case for five years.
That might be the biggest issue of all at Spurs, however, in a start to the season that has at least been disconcerting.


So many of the players are just accustomed to this management. Such an enigmatic approach no longer quite energises them or “keeps them on their toes”. It’s something they’re now used to.

And it’s difficult not to think it’s played a part in everyone else at Spurs suddenly getting used to the deflating feeling of defeat, where once they had been so defiantly relentless.
ar this season, it’s likely to look very different – especially in midfield.

The Argentine, for his part, has mirrored Ferguson there and totally transformed a key area of the team. It’s just that Tanguy N’Dombele and Giovani Lo Celso haven’t been fit enough yet.


more here:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...window-eriksen-vs-arsenal-derby-a9082976.html

 

[muttley]

I read that earlier this morning from a NewsNow link. Apart from being a slightly shorter version of War and Peace, but with annoying adverts, it has some good stuff in there.

The one thing it doesn't address is Levy. All football fans want at their club is year-on-year evolution. Hopefully incremental improvement. What Spurs fans keep getting is revolution. It doesn't matter whether it was the Arnesen/Santini/Jol years or the Harry/AVB years through to this current cycle. The symptoms are still the same. It's one big pendulum that is either one side or the other side, but never in the middle. It just passes the middle briefly on the way to the other side.

Only Levy can figure out why nothing changes seamlessly at Spurs and once again all this storming is happening under his control.

 

[Spursex]

I read that earlier this morning from a NewsNow link. Apart from being a slightly shorter version of War and Peace, but with annoying adverts, it has some good stuff in there.

The one thing it doesn't address is Levy. All football fans want at their club is year-on-year evolution. Hopefully incremental improvement. What Spurs fans keep getting is revolution. It doesn't matter whether it was the Arnesen/Santini/Jol years or the Harry/AVB years through to this current cycle. The symptoms are still the same. It's one big pendulum that is either one side or the other side, but never in the middle. It just passes the middle briefly on the way to the other side.

Only Levy can figure out why nothing changes seamlessly at Spurs and once again all this storming is happening under his control.

For once, I don't think you can point this at Levy - the vast influx of riches for players now so early in their careers has meant that there has been a revolution in how agents and players can take total command of their careers and take contract risks that would have been largely unthinkable a few years back - top players playing their contracts knowing they can get almost anything they demand is now the new norm.

Tottenham had 5 players who returned from the WC and all said that they were leaving, and would do it their own way - i.e. doesn't matter how much you think you can put in front of me, it's not enough to make me resign.

Don't believe a word of Vert's 'i'm happy here and would sign a new deal' - as I know for a fact that his demands are utterly ridiculous and he's already got his eyes elsewhere and has had for the whole last 18 months we were trying to get an extension done with him - the same goes for Toby.

This contract turmoil/player unrest was and currently is beyond his control; Poch refused to see them moved on (at any cost) when they hit our usual 2-year deadline for making these decisions.

So in my book, Poch was and is far more responsible for the 'untogetherness' he is now experiencing and that we can now see on the pitch.

I put nearly 100% of this blame on Poch.

 

[muttley]

For once, I don't think you can point this at Levy - the vast influx of riches for players now so early in their careers has meant that there has been a revolution in how agents and players can take total command of their careers and take contract risks that would have been largely unthinkable a few years back - top players playing their contracts knowing they can get almost anything they demand is now the new norm.

Tottenham had 5 players who returned from the WC and all said that they were leaving, and would do it their own way - i.e. doesn't matter how much you think you can put in front of me, it's not enough to make me resign.

Don't believe a word of Vert's 'i'm happy here and would sign a new deal' - as I know for a fact that his demands are utterly ridiculous and he's already got his eyes elsewhere and has had for the whole last 18 months we were trying to get an extension done with him - the same goes for Toby.

This contract turmoil/player unrest was and currently is beyond his control; Poch refused to see them moved on (at any cost) when they hit our usual 2-year deadline for making these decisions.

So in my book, Poch was and is far more responsible for the 'untogetherness' he is now experiencing and that we can now see on the pitch.

I put nearly 100% of this blame on Poch.

Go back a few years. Stockpile Harry would start every summer with 35 players when you could only register 25. We had to sell dross to buy new players and were constantly behind the curve. We had second halves of seasons like we've just seen in 2019 and in the end there was full scale storming at the club once Harry gets linked with England. He gets blamed for taking his eye off the ball and finally gets the sack. The exodus ensues and Harry is perceived as 90% to blame.....obviously !!!

Different story to Poch's, but once again all focused on the manager not the chairman. Why didn't Levy sit down with his manager when he joined and sell to him the concept that less is more and he could have a much better chance of getting the best players and trophies if he kept the squad optimised. Coerce and convince him that this was the best way when you're THFC, not West Ham or Bournemouth. Define a charter and hold yourselves jointly accountable to it. Instead, revolution after 4 years and turmoil at the club for the next couple. It was an ugly period.

Even though Poch seems to get these principles better than Harry, it's a variation of the same story. If we would have had that "chairman to manager" agreement of selling contract rebels 2 years before expiry, I'm sure Poch would have wanted investment ahead of time to replenish and plan for the change with new quality. It's a fair ask. Surely a smart leader who understands football would have built that buffer into his financial model knowing that if he didn't we'd be in the position we are in now.

I'm not saying I'm OK with Poch at this time. In fact, I'm as pissed off with him as the next fan on the recent circus on the pitch. He shouldn't be shouldering the total blame though because Levy took gambles on those market forces and player contracts and is equally accountable for the write down of those players and the cultural and footballing challenges that the Independent write about.

BTW, great conversation as always.