MATCH THREAD v Newcastle 12-30 kick off 13/4 away | Page 16 | Vital Football

MATCH THREAD v Newcastle 12-30 kick off 13/4 away

It was as poor a performance as we've seen in a long time.

It was gut-wrenching even. During the game, I was messaging 80 and vice versa. What struck me the most is yet again a complete lack of leadership when it matters most.

No leadership, no intelligence on display from back to front. Spurs showed lots of possession, it was foreplay, but no penetration. Tactically, they knew their game plan and executed it; our players looked lost around their box and over-played again and again.

Calls for Ange to be sacked are silly. We need stability, but he needs to show he can sort this shambles out now and show that he does know how to approach these games that is more than just do the same as we did last week and the week before that.

A lot of players let themselves and him down badly and that's a bigger concern to me.
 
steveperryman said:
I dunno. Ange believes that attack is the first form of defense. So be it then. Where was our attacking threat today Vinnie?
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I agree SP mate but where was our defence today,we have a squad most teams would envy but we still have the same soft underbelly that you alluded to and it doesn't seem like changing anytime soon,no matter who is in charge.
 
Maureen was right to a certain extent & so was Conte. Both are serial winners. One with his philosophy of winning at all costs, the other through sheer hard work & commitment. How did that work out? Spurs on the other hand couldn't win a raffle in a Butlin's Camp.
 
steveperryman said:
Do you honestly believe him?
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Yes, as 80 reminded me last night - Areta went through the same cycle as he rebuilt le arse, in fact against the top 6 for a while the arsenal fans even expected to get spanked.

He unquestionably has a clear vision of the team he wants, but clearly, many of these players aren't the type he wants. That said, I still believe that 3-4 changes and making some brave decisions and we have a potentially silverware winning squad.
 
Spursex said:
It was as poor a performance as we've seen in a long time.

It was gut-wrenching even. During the game, I was messaging 80 and vice versa. What struck me the most is yet again a complete lack of leadership when it matters most.

No leadership, no intelligence on display from back to front. Spurs showed lots of possession, it was foreplay, but no penetration. Tactically, they knew their game plan and executed it; our players looked lost around their box and over-played again and again.

Calls for Ange to be sacked are silly. We need stability, but he needs to show he can sort this shambles out now and show that he does know how to approach these games that is more than just do the same as we did last week and the week before that.

A lot of players let themselves and him down badly and that's a bigger concern to me.
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Whilst I don't want Ange sacked, my worry is he hasn't got the tactical nous to change things and/or he just won't change things cos his way worked before.
Without dissing his past achievements, his 'my way only' isn't going to work in the PL or Europe. We surprised everyone at the start of the season, but they've sussed us now, so Ange needs to tweak here and there to get the upper hand again.
In theory you could get a guy from the stands to go into the dressing room and say 'attack attack attack boys' and get similar results.'
We have a decent squad, we are in theory on course for 5th minimum which will be a great season compared to last year. If we feck this up IMO the players& fans are going to put great big ??? on whether Ange is the guy we need to take us forward. Even now if I was playing for them I'd be thinking fecking hell we are committing suicide in games. If he is to be the man...he needs a plan B and fast.
 
Spursex said:
Yes, as 80 reminded me last night - Areta went through the same cycle as he rebuilt le arse, in fact against the top 6 for a while the arsenal fans even expected to get spanked.

He unquestionably has a clear vision of the team he wants, but clearly, many of these players aren't the type he wants. That said, I still believe that 3-4 changes and making some brave decisions and we have a potentially silverware winning squad.
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I believe the latter will improve us moving forward however there are serious questions being unanswered by Ange regarding his tactical planning. I'm not as convinced as either of you that he will bring success to the club. I do appreciate it will be more exciting, perhaps that'll be enough for some.
 
Fevvers said:
Stop knocking Sonny! I know he has his faults but he's an "honest", technically, tactically, gifted, professional footballer, he aint a centre-forward, he knows it, Ach doesn't,. If Ach wants to continue with this Sonny / Timo combination then he needs to reverse it. Give the German a trial at centre-forward, could be the second coming (Klinsmann?),
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Agree with this and said it during the game. Son should be playing were Werner is.

But we don’t have a CF that can hold the ball.

We’ve had situations like this too many times over the years where good players are forced to play in the wrong position for their skills.

I would also note that Ange hasn’t looked happy for a few weeks.

Muttley made a comment about Angie’s approach and his thinking at Celtic and that he thinks that we should dominate games. That’s a winners mentality.
 
80deg16minW said:
Agree with this and said it during the game. Son should be playing were Werner is.

But we don’t have a CF that can hold the ball.

We’ve had situations like this too many times over the years where good players are forced to play in the wrong position for their skills.

I would also note that Ange hasn’t looked happy for a few weeks.

Muttley made a comment about Angie’s approach and his thinking at Celtic and that he thinks that we should dominate games. That’s a winners mentality.
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Until you get your pants pulled down & that's exactly what has happened here.
 
80deg16minW said:
Agree with this and said it during the game. Son should be playing were Werner is.

But we don’t have a CF that can hold the ball.

We’ve had situations like this too many times over the years where good players are forced to play in the wrong position for their skills.

I would also note that Ange hasn’t looked happy for a few weeks.

Muttley made a comment about Angie’s approach and his thinking at Celtic and that he thinks that we should dominate games. That’s a winners mentality.
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Or optimists where the reality is yet to slap him in the face and bring him back down to earth..?

The reality is, results like this were and still are on the cards, many including myself have said this since the start of the season. I hate being right, but it is what it is - we've all been guilty of getting carried away.

It is Ange's first season, it is a transitional season, and therefore our expectations should and must be tempered.

And everyone should now understand why with our upcoming games, finishing top 4 is likely a pipe dream, and we'll be lucky if we can finish in the top 7/8 at this rate. Most of the time and given our on/off performances throughout this season, it's probably the best we realistically could hope for.
 
SmithAndJones said:
Absolutely awful. The thrashings we have received at Newcastle, Fulham and Brighton have nothing to do with a team in transition, work in progress, injuries, refereeing decisions, the woodwork, or any of the other stuff invariably put forward to excuse poor performance. Quite simply we were rubbish, and it is becoming increasingly clear that, particularly away from home, we are technically inept. Yesterday's game for me raises two important questions;

- What do our best players really feel about this form of one size fits all that we are playing. Is Van Der Ven genuinely happy to be regularly fed to the wolves, taking on hungry forward lines single footedly whilst his defensive colleagues are everywhere else other than where they should be. Every game is different, every opposition is different, every venue and atmosphere is different. Are we affording opposing teams the necessary respect to technically evaluate and plan for the opposition and game that is ahead of us.

- In recent times the emphasis within the Club has definitely shifted toward investment in infra structure and playing personnel. Levy will always however be the main man, he pays the money and makes or approves the appointments. I wonder whether he's happy with what he's seeing in 2024. Is there a view that we are making genuine progress toward the Club's objectives, or is he thinking 'here we go again'.

We will qualify for European football next season, probably the Europa League, which will meet a minimum expectation. More will be expected next season however, and it will need more than talking a good game.
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Levy should never ever have come out at the start of the season and gloatingly said "we've got our Tottenham back"

What a nonsense statement.

The football isn't even good
 
Sockspurs said:
Levy should never ever have come out at the start of the season and gloatingly said "we've got our Tottenham back"

What a nonsense statement.

The football isn't even good
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The comment was justified in the early part of the season, when we were playing some entertaining football and showing a fair bit of quality. Maybe it was a 'new manager bounce', other teams needing to work Postco out, a generous fixture list which worked as much in our favour in the first ten games as it will against us in the last ten, or a big motivational lift throughout the Club post Conte, I'm not sure, probably a combination of all those factors. I would agree though that nothing subsequently has matched that early phase, and since the turn of the year we've generally been pretty disappointing.
 
Well, we've seen the extremes this season. The sublime at the beginning which included drawing with Arsenal and Liverpool.

And the drubbings at the hands of teams we should have beaten.

We have been turned down by lots of managers and players.

Ange is what we have. And I do not think there is a supporter anywhere that didn't think we would need at least a couple of years to change the culture of this club from top to bottom.

A little patience to see if this can be stabilized is definitely in order.

Arteta learned on the job and was backed over his years of development. Funnily enough, he is also known as a really good guy, even though I cannot stand him.

Until things sort themselves out I guess we are reduced to acting like Goon supporters. :yes:
 
80deg16minW said:
Well, we've seen the extremes this season. The sublime at the beginning which included drawing with Arsenal and Liverpool.

And the drubbings at the hands of teams we should have beaten.

We have been turned down by lots of managers and players.

Ange is what we have. And I do not think there is a supporter anywhere that didn't think we would need at least a couple of years to change the culture of this club from top to bottom.

A little patience to see if this can be stabilized is definitely in order.

Arteta learned on the job and was backed over his years of development. Funnily enough, he is also known as a really good guy, even though I cannot stand him.

Until things sort themselves out I guess we are reduced to acting like Goon supporters. :yes:
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Some might be, but I hate the comparison.
 
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