Sincilbanks
Vital Football Hero
But I thought we had a squad easily capable of making the playoffs and it was just our negative manager holding us back?
Match Thread: Stevenage v Lincoln City
- Thread starter Jules
- Start date
But I thought we had a squad easily capable of making the playoffs and it was just our negative manager holding us back?
I think we really need a degree of patience now with Skubala. Whilst the lack of House & Walker is unfortunate, in my opinion the club got it wrong in the summer and have reacted accordingly to look for a new train of the thought.
If we want to go down the method of possession football and being more expansive we need to stick to it and adopt this as the Lincoln City philosophy. We didn’t recruit players in the summer with those traits of expansive, technical qualities but more stubborn, awkward and hard to beat players. Only the board, Jez and Liam can answer why we chose that approach. When the new manager describes a team an honest bunch, it means they aren’t good enough for the new direction of travel.
Similarities to when MA first joined Skubala is now going to be asking players to play a method they just aren’t comfortable with, the revolution will happen quicker than evolution. January is a big month, and expect a higher turn over of players. We now need to go shopping for the likes of Edun, Scully & co again, moving players on will be more difficult however. It becomes an expensive error, you only have to look at the the team and typified by the subs we fielded today Adelakun will be gone at the 1st opportunity, Makama should be playing for Peterborough Sports and Duffy needs games lower down the pyramid. In amongst the above 4/5 starters aren’t good enough for a new style to be adopted.
We will get it right again but it could be a tough watch changing the whole principle of Kennedy ball.
If we want to go down the method of possession football and being more expansive we need to stick to it and adopt this as the Lincoln City philosophy. We didn’t recruit players in the summer with those traits of expansive, technical qualities but more stubborn, awkward and hard to beat players. Only the board, Jez and Liam can answer why we chose that approach. When the new manager describes a team an honest bunch, it means they aren’t good enough for the new direction of travel.
Similarities to when MA first joined Skubala is now going to be asking players to play a method they just aren’t comfortable with, the revolution will happen quicker than evolution. January is a big month, and expect a higher turn over of players. We now need to go shopping for the likes of Edun, Scully & co again, moving players on will be more difficult however. It becomes an expensive error, you only have to look at the the team and typified by the subs we fielded today Adelakun will be gone at the 1st opportunity, Makama should be playing for Peterborough Sports and Duffy needs games lower down the pyramid. In amongst the above 4/5 starters aren’t good enough for a new style to be adopted.
We will get it right again but it could be a tough watch changing the whole principle of Kennedy ball.
Welcome to the forum!
Thanks Jules observed for a good while thought I would throw my tuppence in
woodworkimp
Vital Youth Team
If the club are willing to allow a higher amount of movement than normal, January could be interesting. Whether it was injury based or not but to have a youth team player on the bench as well shows something
Well here goes....
First thing I noticed was throws went to feet or forward, TJ passed forward, and so did others, where I think in previous weeks they wouldn't have....
That's the visible first baby step.
That's enough for me in game one.
To beat Stevenage you need to compete physically and then have enough to hurt them at the other end.
We competed physically, I thought....
That doesn't mean we came out on top physically but that's something different.
You are unlikely to win that battle but you need to try and I thought we did that.
We had a few attempts to hurt them but never really quite found that one moment that would have got us a point.
Will be pick that side when we next play Stevenage later in the season?
Unlikely. Hopefully by then we might have say O'Connor and Roughan to add defensive effectiveness and steel. House and Hackett and Moylan for more physicality and attacking threat.
We will be further into the MS reign and may well be a slicker and more confident team. That's the hope. I wouldn't be surprised.
Time will tell.
First thing I noticed was throws went to feet or forward, TJ passed forward, and so did others, where I think in previous weeks they wouldn't have....
That's the visible first baby step.
That's enough for me in game one.
To beat Stevenage you need to compete physically and then have enough to hurt them at the other end.
We competed physically, I thought....
That doesn't mean we came out on top physically but that's something different.
You are unlikely to win that battle but you need to try and I thought we did that.
We had a few attempts to hurt them but never really quite found that one moment that would have got us a point.
Will be pick that side when we next play Stevenage later in the season?
Unlikely. Hopefully by then we might have say O'Connor and Roughan to add defensive effectiveness and steel. House and Hackett and Moylan for more physicality and attacking threat.
We will be further into the MS reign and may well be a slicker and more confident team. That's the hope. I wouldn't be surprised.
Time will tell.
A high looping corner and, although blocked by players, Jenson needs to come out and claim it. Other than that he was fairly solid but it’s all about small margins.
First half dominance played with confidence and expression was let down by poor final 3rd decision making which prevented us going in with a half time lead.
I’m sure everyone is disappointed with the result but I’ve every confidence that the second half of the season will be a good one especially as I suspect there will be a push to bring in 1 or 2 more experienced players to help nurture the younger members of the group.
First half dominance played with confidence and expression was let down by poor final 3rd decision making which prevented us going in with a half time lead.
I’m sure everyone is disappointed with the result but I’ve every confidence that the second half of the season will be a good one especially as I suspect there will be a push to bring in 1 or 2 more experienced players to help nurture the younger members of the group.
tell_it_like_it_is
Vital Reserves Team
Moved the ball really well through the midfield in the first half. That has to be promising for the future.
Do feel though there is almost a sense of inevitably both within the team and within the supporters that we will let results slip in the second half. The confidence seems to ebb away and we just become ragged. That has to change sooner rather than later but possibly only will when he have a much changed attacking threat. Had to feel sorry today for Smith who didn't seem to know himself what role he was supposed to be playing and Vale a really inexperienced player who is so isolated and again being asked to do things he is not that familiar with
The second half looked at times like men against boys because to all intents and purposes that was what is was. It's easy to be clichéd and be derogatory about Stevenage but I am not surprised they are doing well. They will have a completely different "model" to us and a number of teams in League 2 but the manager there has assembled a team of highly experienced and fully competent lower league players. We know exactly what Evans will have said at half time and their players carried out the plan perfectly.
Do feel though there is almost a sense of inevitably both within the team and within the supporters that we will let results slip in the second half. The confidence seems to ebb away and we just become ragged. That has to change sooner rather than later but possibly only will when he have a much changed attacking threat. Had to feel sorry today for Smith who didn't seem to know himself what role he was supposed to be playing and Vale a really inexperienced player who is so isolated and again being asked to do things he is not that familiar with
The second half looked at times like men against boys because to all intents and purposes that was what is was. It's easy to be clichéd and be derogatory about Stevenage but I am not surprised they are doing well. They will have a completely different "model" to us and a number of teams in League 2 but the manager there has assembled a team of highly experienced and fully competent lower league players. We know exactly what Evans will have said at half time and their players carried out the plan perfectly.
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clanfordimp
Vital 1st Team Regular
Totally agree and I have been saying it till I'm blue in the face. Even when we have got ALL our forwards available to us we still havnt got one with a physical presence, who can play with his back to goal, hold the ball up so we can get up and support him and who can challenge for the ball aerially inside and outside the box, because we want wide men who can cross the ball. Look how many balls went into the box today unchallenged either along the floor or aerially.
It won't matter how good our possession based build up play is, you have to get the ball in the opposition box to score goals, you have to have someone on the end of things whether that is on the floor or aerially. You have to have different options in the team or else it's just to predictable and we are desperate for some strength in the team.
Really hope this is an area that will be addressed in time.
StrangelyBrown
Vital Squad Member
Elizabeth Warren said "A good education is a foundation for a better future"- today was a good day because I think the new coach learned a lot- about the team, about L1 and about what the future needs to be successful AND we were given a lesson by an opposition coach who we really don't like (but who has nailed it at a small L1 club).
So what did Skubala's first team look like? Very similar to any other starting 11 really- Mitchell in for O'Connor and TJ retained his place in a back 3 with Jackson. Sorensen and Burroughs on the WB roles.
Two Ethans with Mandroiu and Smith either side and Vale up top.
First half was scrappy but we weren't outplayed- we competed, nullified Stevenage (who, to be fair were competitive, fast, high press style and physical but not illegally so). Vale probably had the best half chance of both teams with a turn and shot which was comfortably saved by Stevenage keeper.
And that was really it- not a poor first half but one where neither team really built up a rhythm or any momentum. Half time 0-0.
Half time and Evans, by all accounts, changed formation for second half. Not sure I saw it much from the low angle of the Stevenage away end BUT Stevenage started the much brighter. We struggled to maintain control in midfield and a number of attacks down both wings saw a range of crosses into our box even if they didn't result in too much.
Felt like we were defending more and not being creative when we had the opportunity with the ball.
Having said that, their goal came from a corner- scrappy melee in the box and somehow ended up in the back of the net. I don't think we ever really looked like getting back on level terms. Second half was disappointing.
So what was different in Skubala's first game? It felt like we were trying to move the ball with a faster pace and rhythm. Throw ins etc were a little quicker. Looked like we were trying to find some space more often and were trying to think forward rather than sideways or back.
However you can't take away from what Stevenage do- very high press, chase down the 2nd balls, fast in both defence and attack. Evans has got them running smoothly and, as much as I hate it, fair play to him.
Couple of late subs for us (Vale looked like he'd tweaked something) with Adelakun and Duffy but they still didn't really make much impact.
Good lesson for Skubala- L1 is not Championship U23s. Different gravy and his learning curve will be fast and steep.
Still I was somewhat bemused with a few (not many) fans telling the players to not come over and applaud the fans.....everyone pays their money so can do what they like but supporting a new coach should really have come before everything today.
And one final thing really (as some from the senior club echelons read these pages)
Stevenage snap- decent load of chips, large sausage roll and coffee- £8.50. At the LNER it would have come to around £12-13. Who said the South is dearer!
So what did Skubala's first team look like? Very similar to any other starting 11 really- Mitchell in for O'Connor and TJ retained his place in a back 3 with Jackson. Sorensen and Burroughs on the WB roles.
Two Ethans with Mandroiu and Smith either side and Vale up top.
First half was scrappy but we weren't outplayed- we competed, nullified Stevenage (who, to be fair were competitive, fast, high press style and physical but not illegally so). Vale probably had the best half chance of both teams with a turn and shot which was comfortably saved by Stevenage keeper.
And that was really it- not a poor first half but one where neither team really built up a rhythm or any momentum. Half time 0-0.
Half time and Evans, by all accounts, changed formation for second half. Not sure I saw it much from the low angle of the Stevenage away end BUT Stevenage started the much brighter. We struggled to maintain control in midfield and a number of attacks down both wings saw a range of crosses into our box even if they didn't result in too much.
Felt like we were defending more and not being creative when we had the opportunity with the ball.
Having said that, their goal came from a corner- scrappy melee in the box and somehow ended up in the back of the net. I don't think we ever really looked like getting back on level terms. Second half was disappointing.
So what was different in Skubala's first game? It felt like we were trying to move the ball with a faster pace and rhythm. Throw ins etc were a little quicker. Looked like we were trying to find some space more often and were trying to think forward rather than sideways or back.
However you can't take away from what Stevenage do- very high press, chase down the 2nd balls, fast in both defence and attack. Evans has got them running smoothly and, as much as I hate it, fair play to him.
Couple of late subs for us (Vale looked like he'd tweaked something) with Adelakun and Duffy but they still didn't really make much impact.
Good lesson for Skubala- L1 is not Championship U23s. Different gravy and his learning curve will be fast and steep.
Still I was somewhat bemused with a few (not many) fans telling the players to not come over and applaud the fans.....everyone pays their money so can do what they like but supporting a new coach should really have come before everything today.
And one final thing really (as some from the senior club echelons read these pages)
Stevenage snap- decent load of chips, large sausage roll and coffee- £8.50. At the LNER it would have come to around £12-13. Who said the South is dearer!
Well if we can get him fit
Walker scores goals in L1 - as we know
Well if we can get him fit
House scores goals in L1 - as we know
Well if we can get him to step up to L1
Moylan scores goals as we know
Well if we can get him to step up to L1
Draper scores goals as we know
....and yet none of them are what we need because apparently they don't get on the end of things in the box.
Where do their goals come from?
They must be buying them on eBay?
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StrangelyBrown
Vital Squad Member
Depends on what our new style will be- Stevenage (with Reid and Hemmings) didn't have a Rhead style playing holding it up and they didn't need to play direct long balls either. They used their width and got as many balls into our box as possible.
We do need players in the box but I's not sure a holding number 9 is where we will go.
I kinda agree with that but we had Hopper who could hold a ball up fairly well and challenge for headers from crosses but didn't have any threat in behind and as a team, we got squeezed with him up front.
House offers a threat in behind and can hold the ball up fairly well even if he's not naturally someone who'll get his head on things. I actually think that the better and more fluid the passing/possession becomes, the less that'll be an issue.
For the sort of player who can be a good all rounder, you'd have to start spending pretty silly money for L1 level. You're in the realms of Dion Charles, Colby Bishop, Charlie Wyke, Matt Smith etc type players then.
What we haven't seen much of this season are balls in behind a defence too often, which is another way to get up the pitch a bit but that's down to a) a lack of pace (Mandroiu, Bishop, Smith aren't particularly quick, Reeco is) and b) an unwillingness to run in behind/lack of understanding of the role as a lone front man, which you can understand the latter to a point (Adelakun).
mikeosullivan
Vital Squad Member
What Clanford actually said about existing forwards Chimp was this:-
"we still havn't got one with a physical presence, who can play with his back to goal, hold the ball up so we can get up and support him and who can challenge for the ball aerially inside and outside the box"
and that is true. We do have players coming back who can potentially score goals as you rightly say, but none of them are good in the air. We haven't had that type of player since Hopper, and even he wasn't the best. That is why our set pieces (corners, free kicks and long throws) are poor, and never come to anything.
However whether we need a traditional target-man type centre forward will depend entirely on how MS eventually gets us to play, and that will not be apparent until at least January.
Until then, similar to Tom Shaw's games in charge, the shortage of forwards will determine how we play.
clanfordimp
Vital 1st Team Regular
Which one of that quartet plays then Chimp?..and don't forget Vale is still here till the end of the season aswell.
Do they play as lone strikers or who would you have in a partnership. Which two compliment each other best?
We've already seen Walker and House play in the same team this season. Granted it wasn't for long but the chemistry didn't look good.
Not saying they're not good players, cos they are but Draper is still very raw and inexperienced and Moylan is just about to come in from Ireland, so I think you can discount them two going straight into the team.
That leaves House, Walker and Vale. Which one of them three would be in your team or would you play a combination of two of them?
Alright throwing up meaningless little bullet points that might look good on paper but what is the reality.
Who actually plays and do they play as a lone striker or as a two up front ?
So do they get on the end of things or not?
How did Walker scores 17 goals with us?
Was it with a big centre forward - I recall it being Jake Hesketh
Did House have a big centre forward with him last year?
Did Moylan play with a big centre forward in Ireland? I think he was the lone centre forward?
Draper plays on his own up front at Walsall?
So I suggest each of those methods could work.
I am sure MS will be more than capable of deciding what would work best.
Some sides play with a big lump up front but others don't...and the more football you play and the more possession you have, the less you need a big target man.
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clanfordimp
Vital 1st Team Regular
Walker scored his goals in a good team. He didn't do a lot else but he does know where the goal is but he needs good service which means we have to get the ball in the box for him to thrive.
House scored around once in every four or five games. Not prolific for your main centre forward but there again he was chasing his arse most games closing opposition players down. The team on the whole only averaged around a goal a game which gets you relegated if you don't have a decent defence....fortunately, we did.
I'm not suggesting that we play with a big lump up front but I do feel we need someone in the squad who offers an aerial threat, attacking and defensively wise because its an area that we really have shortcomings in.
Will be interesting to see how the forward line actually lines up once we have everyone available for selection.
Merthyr Imp
Vital Football Hero
Well, got home just over an hour ago and haven't read anything at all about the match yet or looked at any highlights, but here's my impressions which may or may not be rubbish bearing in mind I watched the match from low down behind the goal.
Overall, I didn't see much difference from recent games. We were perhaps neater in midfield at times - at least in the first half which I thought we just about shaded. It was largely a non-event for both teams though as we coped well with Stevenage in defence. There wasn't a great deal of punch in attack though, and practically none at all in the second half. Smith really doesn't look good enough in that attacking position for this level of football.
Stevenage came at us in the second half and you can't say it was against the run of play when they eventually scored. From, as I said, low down behind the goal at the other end, it seemed to be crying out for Jensen to claim the ball before it led to the scramble from which they scored.
The substitutions and change to 4-4-2 made no difference to our effectiveness going forward, especially as none of Duffy, Adelakun or Makama really got into the game, and I can only remember a fairly tame shot from Hamilton as our sole threat.
Overall, I didn't see much difference from recent games. We were perhaps neater in midfield at times - at least in the first half which I thought we just about shaded. It was largely a non-event for both teams though as we coped well with Stevenage in defence. There wasn't a great deal of punch in attack though, and practically none at all in the second half. Smith really doesn't look good enough in that attacking position for this level of football.
Stevenage came at us in the second half and you can't say it was against the run of play when they eventually scored. From, as I said, low down behind the goal at the other end, it seemed to be crying out for Jensen to claim the ball before it led to the scramble from which they scored.
The substitutions and change to 4-4-2 made no difference to our effectiveness going forward, especially as none of Duffy, Adelakun or Makama really got into the game, and I can only remember a fairly tame shot from Hamilton as our sole threat.
PerthImp
Vital Football Hero
Nothing like giving the new manager a chance is it? One game against possibly the most physical side in the division. I wonder if a lot of the comments are rooted purely in the anti-Evans thing and simply didn’t want to lose to him. I can’t believe the amount of negative stuff on here. At HT people on here were pretty happy with the more attacking and passing style of the team. The problem was Fatman and Robin sussed us out at HT. They realised we had outlets wide into space, which was where we were having most of our joy, so they countered that threat and the rest was down to the usual tea-cup throwing, rousing, get after them and shut them down early kind of HT team talk. We were clearly out-physicalled second half. The goal was a scramble from a corner where (and I might be wrong) it looked like the intention was to crowd the goalkeeper and stifle the six-yard box to create the sort of mayhem and hopeful poke-it-in goal they scored. I also think we need a different style of play through the middle, possibly with a more controlling No 10 who is capable of receiving, holding and creating stuff through the middle and outside the box (to provide an alternative to the wide approach).
Going forward I am hopeful that given more time to embed his style of play (based on the first half) there are teams we can punish and outplay. The big problem is the same as it’s been all season - strikers. For that I think we’ll need to be patient for returning injured players (which possibly now also includes Vale) and the January window. In the meantime I’m taking a chill-pill and just waiting to see more of what Skoobs does with the existing playing staff. I think that’s the best approach. UTI.
Going forward I am hopeful that given more time to embed his style of play (based on the first half) there are teams we can punish and outplay. The big problem is the same as it’s been all season - strikers. For that I think we’ll need to be patient for returning injured players (which possibly now also includes Vale) and the January window. In the meantime I’m taking a chill-pill and just waiting to see more of what Skoobs does with the existing playing staff. I think that’s the best approach. UTI.
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