MATCH THREAD - Luton vs Spurs - 7 Oct @ 0630 US CST | Page 17 | Vital Football

MATCH THREAD - Luton vs Spurs - 7 Oct @ 0630 US CST

Critical_Spur said:
Hi Gary,
Just taking up your point above....I am not so sure. Without referring to stats or any metrics, just my observation, I think we are still suspect. Not only are we lucky scoring (or having decisions/deflections go our way), we are equally fortunate to have somehow not conceded as many!. In the game yesterday I spotted several times where the opponent received the ball in our box unchallenged or unmarked. It happens regularly during corners, high balls and long throws.....even crosses. We do throw bodies on the line!

IMO, the reason why the defence looks better is because through our front foot football, we are often camped near the centre line! Yes, pace often gets us out of trouble and we have several agile players able to sprint back for recovery, but the sustained pressure still makes me nervous. Also, thank goodness for Vic for doing all sorts of spiderman impressions to keep us in the games.

Like Ex, I too have continually voiced my concerns about the final 3rd problems. Even Sonny looked out of sorts yesterday. The most criticised forward (Kulu) turned out to be the most reliable v Luton!.


Incidently, I am delirious with where we are at such an early stage of Ange's tenure. I am sure he too can't believe how it's panned out so far. Work in progress. Plenty to fix/improve.
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Once Johnson is fit and healthy, I can see things turning around. He looks deadly!
 
Critical_Spur said:
Hi Gary,
Just taking up your point above....I am not so sure. Without referring to stats or any metrics, just my observation, I think we are still suspect. Not only are we lucky scoring (or having decisions/deflections go our way), we are equally fortunate to have somehow not conceded as many!. In the game yesterday I spotted several times where the opponent received the ball in our box unchallenged or unmarked. It happens regularly during corners, high balls and long throws.....even crosses. We do throw bodies on the line!

IMO, the reason why the defence looks better is because through our front foot football, we are often camped near the centre line! Yes, pace often gets us out of trouble and we have several agile players able to sprint back for recovery, but the sustained pressure still makes me nervous. Also, thank goodness for Vic for doing all sorts of spiderman impressions to keep us in the games.

Like Ex, I too have continually voiced my concerns about the final 3rd problems. Even Sonny looked out of sorts yesterday. The most criticised forward (Kulu) turned out to be the most reliable v Luton!.


Incidently, I am delirious with where we are at such an early stage of Ange's tenure. I am sure he too can't believe how it's panned out so far. Work in progress. Plenty to fix/improve.
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It's not flawless defending by a long stretch but it's still a big improvement on last season though.

This season we're conceding goals at a rate of exactly 1 per game. Last season we conceded at a rate of 1.66 goals per game across the whole season. If we took that ratio into this season we'd be in the bottom half of the table.

I'd agree, our front football is pushing us higher up the pitch. And we spend less time defending as result. But last season, when we did defend, we had more players behind the ball and one extra defender. Yet we conceded by the bucketload.

This season, we spend less actual time defending, but it's more difficult for our defenders when they do have to defend. It's a tough balancing act.

Our left-hand side this season, with VdV and Udogie, looks much better to me not because of tactics or anything else, but because they are better footballers than the players playing on that side last season.
 
Critical_Spur said:
Hi Gary,
Just taking up your point above....I am not so sure. Without referring to stats or any metrics, just my observation, I think we are still suspect. Not only are we lucky scoring (or having decisions/deflections go our way), we are equally fortunate to have somehow not conceded as many!. In the game yesterday I spotted several times where the opponent received the ball in our box unchallenged or unmarked. It happens regularly during corners, high balls and long throws.....even crosses. We do throw bodies on the line!

IMO, the reason why the defence looks better is because through our front foot football, we are often camped near the centre line! Yes, pace often gets us out of trouble and we have several agile players able to sprint back for recovery, but the sustained pressure still makes me nervous. Also, thank goodness for Vic for doing all sorts of spiderman impressions to keep us in the games.

Like Ex, I too have continually voiced my concerns about the final 3rd problems. Even Sonny looked out of sorts yesterday. The most criticised forward (Kulu) turned out to be the most reliable v Luton!.


Incidently, I am delirious with where we are at such an early stage of Ange's tenure. I am sure he too can't believe how it's panned out so far. Work in progress. Plenty to fix/improve.
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It is truly incredible what Ange-ball has achieved in such a ridiculously short period of time; as a long time proponent of front foot, pressing mobile football, I am blown away by Ange's tactical improvements to it.

The sum of the improvements is impressive Destiny, Pedro, VDV and a Romero that is now displaying all the attributes of a player with a footballing brain means that Ange has much to be grateful to the previous scouting regime, it's made his job immensely simpler in terms of embedding how to triangulate, and imposing a differing patterns of play as you go through the gears. Our fast counter press (which Ange's system relies heavily on) is remarkable. Fortunately for us, as we have so few games, our collective recovery between games and greater time on the training pitch could not have come at a better time.

Last season, playing two in midfield was excruciating to watch as opposing coaches just adopted their tactics to dominate us there, it made putting up a cohesive defence nigh on impossible, it was obvious to anyone with a basic knowledge of tactics, yet still that buffon Conte persisted. I characterised it as having no midfield, as in many games, they just bypassed us and our backline was just continuously being hammered. Add in Lloris dreadful distribution and it was no surprise to me why we conceded the way we did. As a good friend now a defensive coach in teh championship (and a Spurs fan said to me) 'they way we set up and the way we play makes any cohesive defensive action almost impossible', and of course so it proved to be.

We have a midfield now that knows how to press, how to resist a press and more importantly how to counter-press as a unit. But it also means taking risks, and when you look at the heat maps, Romero's roaming and VDV's high position along with the WB's pressing through the middle means we leave big spaces behind us that Vaicario has to work and we have to adapt our set patterns of positioning in seconds to keep the opposition out - I've now watched around 10 of the Celtic games where this pattern of play meant they got caught out and it is a problem, but Destiny's and VDV speed mean we have better quality players that seemed acutely aware of it and how and when to commit when chasing back.

I watch Maddison now and almost shake my head in disbelief at those words from some about 'we don't need a no.10 in Conte's system'...

We're creating chances for fun, but as Richi has said earlier, we have to improve our conversion, or we risk looking easy on the eye, but achieving not what we all want; silverware (of any description).

We still have to improve our quality in depth, next summers spend could be utterly critical in moving us from wannabee's into gonnabees. If we don't add well, then the number of games will find us out and it will be painful.

But we have to be patient, it's taken the Arse 4/5 years to get to the point they are now, and we should keep that in mind as their depth and ManC's depth make us look like we're still paddling in the shallow end.
 
Spursex said:
No, it more demonstrated a lack of finishing.

Moving forward, that is what Age will have to try and fix.

When Ange took over, the prevailing view was that results would probably initially be slow. How wrong this view was.

In fairness, this had tended to be the pattern in his previous jobs, and was certainly the case at his two roles before taking over at Spurs. Ange was almost relegated in his first season with Yokohama, while Celtic lost three and drew one of his first seven league matches in charge.

‘Be patient, Spurs fans’, was the message, it will be worth it when he gets it all working.

It’s turned out very differently and, after yesterdays 1-0 win at Luton, we are top of the league (for a day at least) having picked up more points from our first eight games than in any other PL season.

The win at Luton wasn’t always pretty, but we still created a heap of chances in the first half and in general have reached top spot by playing enterprising, exciting football; for those of us who've gone and paid our money more in despair at what we were going to see than in hope, it's a startling change in our fortunates.

We are now playing exactly the kind of football it was thought might take a season for the players to execute, as they got used to Ange's tactics and methods. (Which is generally how those slow starts at his previous clubs have been explained).

Why then has this time been different?

Our approach has been relentless and ruthless, we've given little time to the opposition to settle on the ball, when we'be lost possession, we've hurried and harried them into mistakes, which is why our turnovers and repossession stats are startling for a team only newly versed in a whole new way to play front football.

No doubt, we will have to try and keep improving as the season drags on, and there is a long way to go, and no doubt our faith will be tested when we suffer some hard to swallow defeats (which is going to happen).

But we are in our infancy under Ange, we're not yet anywhere near the finished product.

Yesterday we showed resilience and mental fortitude, it was another hurdle we successfully negotiated, there will be more.
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Excellent post EX,you more or less nailed it,we all know a few defeats are inevitable but I for one won't be too disappointed as we are heading in the right direction,what a signing Big Ange has turned out. Forget Madders,Ange has been the signing of the season for me. C.O.Y.S.
 
muttley said:
This is exactly what VAR should be used for, even if it was the deterrent that killed some of these dark arts. Players would definitely think twice if the referee was going to get a heads up that they just cheated.
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Well, I've re-watched the 'miss' have a dozen times, and he definitely pulled him off balance, but he didn't make a fuss about it, and the ref and VAR definitely missed it.

I owe him a big apology, but it seems from watching it on tele and not being at the ground, almost all the pundits missed it too!
 
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Pompey Yid said:
Thinking on our wastage yesterday....all seemed to be involved somehow....

Richy....3 bloody good chances wasted.
Sonny....2 ditto
Pedro....1 ditto, mind unlucky wiv his outside of the boot curler.
Maddy....2 poor free kicks, 3 shots blazed over the bar, get em on target work the GK.
Kulu....far post shot saved by their GK.
Players generally how many shots on on target.

There might be more but am going from stuff that stood out.
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Its all progress mate. Think about the last 3 or 4 seasons and tell me you wouldnt have loved to be in a position to moan about so many chances wasted. I will take this every day of the week.
 
Gary Onedaysoon said:
If we were to spend a wodge of cash on an orthodox number 9 like Toney (or any other player) what would that mean for Sonny in the central role? Would he revert to the left and become an occasional number 9 backup like he was for Kane?

He's revelling in the role when he's given any space but struggling against the rugged teams that sit deep and defend for 90 minutes (Luton, Sheffield Utd etc.). There's probably more of the former than the latter in the PL though, so over the course of the season wouldn't the central position be the best one for him and the team?

A new number 9 would also block the path for Veliz. Right now he's in the right position to be introduced gradually as Son's understudy.

Maybe the money would be better spent on a goalscoring left-sided attacker to replace Richarlison?
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Great point. Going out and signing another striker to focus on may just put the game play back to square one. I am done with the Kane type focal point ruining our game play.

Unless we sign a forward who is used to playing the way big Ange prefers......anyone know of such a player being available? At the moment if someone said we could recoup a chunk of the Richi money, sign a ready made striker in the Ange way of playing and have Veliz as backup i may be tempted. Hell the way that would stack up you could then still go out and buy another left sided attacker.
 
Gary Onedaysoon said:
It's not flawless defending by a long stretch but it's still a big improvement on last season though.

This season we're conceding goals at a rate of exactly 1 per game. Last season we conceded at a rate of 1.66 goals per game across the whole season. If we took that ratio into this season we'd be in the bottom half of the table.

I'd agree, our front football is pushing us higher up the pitch. And we spend less time defending as result. But last season, when we did defend, we had more players behind the ball and one extra defender. Yet we conceded by the bucketload.

This season, we spend less actual time defending, but it's more difficult for our defenders when they do have to defend. It's a tough balancing act.

Our left-hand side this season, with VdV and Udogie, looks much better to me not because of tactics or anything else, but because they are better footballers than the players playing on that side last season.
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The old saying ‘ the best form of defence is attack’ is still relevant today!
 
Littlest Hobo said:
Its all progress mate. Think about the last 3 or 4 seasons and tell me you wouldnt have loved to be in a position to moan about so many chances wasted. I will take this every day of the week.
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Oh LH sorry, but I think you might have misinterpreted my post, prob my fault really lol! I wasn't trying to slag anyone off! just showing chances created, which we haven't seen for bloody years.
 
Sockspurs said:
l


Tbf to Richi, him missing chances isn't just him, Son is as wasteful at times, but I agree, I just hope we do not panic buy Toney.

Evan Ferguson in the summer should be out target, he's a Kane Clone

Veliz will be starting games soon I think, he looked lively in the 10 minutes or and was unlucky not to get his shot away in the last few seconds.

Can he be worse?
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Mark my words Sock mate,Evan Ferguson is going to be a Top Top player,I might be a bit biased because I'm Irish but we should go all out to get him in the next TW.
 
vinniecopenhagen said:
Mark my words Sock mate,Evan Ferguson is going to be a Top Top player,I might be a bit biased because I'm Irish but we should go all out to get him in the next TW.
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He just signed a new 5 year deal with an option of a year on top; as soon as he put pen to paper he was valued at around £65 mill !!! And he's just 18...

IF he keeps progressing and remains injury free, he'll be talked of in Bellingham type tones and numbers.

So sadly, given that he's a mad United fan as well, I fully expect his next stop not to being anywhere near us!!

If he returns the goals some are expecting this season, his value will leap above £100mill, if he doesn't, then the hype may calm some.
 
Who needs him anyway? we ave our own sitting on the bench...yep its Alejo, the nipper is going to surprise many.
 
Just a couple of comments, on our season so far
Liverpool, tho'we won and all the debacle etc, their two sending off were valid, and indeed their keeper was by far their best player, with several world class saves.
Arsenal, come on, how lucky were they? We were the better team, and they created very little only scoring by an OG and Pen.
Luton, we were away from home with 10 men, we dominated when we had 11 players, they only came into the game, when we were down to 10 men.
Re Richi, against Liverpool he was unlucky hitting the post and indeed the keepers'foot saved a defo goal on Saturday.
Whilst not as prolific as HK, Richi does put a shift in, and I think there will be goals.
 
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