Match Thread: Forest Vs Millwaaaall sponsored by the Natural History Museum

[Pope John XXIII]

Polly 433 - 7/8/2017 14:02

Expecting to perfect after 5 games is very optimistic. May see signs after 5 games but still expect mistakes. All teams will pressure them. Will only get results when they learn how to suck teams in to pressuring back four and then strike quickly thru the midfield to find strikers in space. More like 25 games. Maybe easier to play away from home where teams will naturally push more men forward.

I'm really not sure anyone has set any limit on how long it should take to perfect things.

Basic errors in selection should really be sorted within a game or two though

 

[chilwellred]

surely team selection will be an evolutionary thing. (not necessarily errors in selection) warburton will select the right blend of players to make his system work. i do agree that his system should in theory work better away from home. time will tell. really hope that mr marinakis is not as trigger happy as he who shall no longer be named.

 

[Our Kids Dad]

Henderson, Fox, Cash & Ward injured.

Hobbs, Lam, Carayol & La Bouche all absent from Matchday squad, interesting to see whether that was for tactical reasons & whether any will feature tomorrow?

I prefer a degree of consistency in team selection as they seek to learn & develop as a side under MW, but even so, you'd hope that MW does give Cummings, Vellios & some of the above some valuable minutes in a competitive fixture.

 

[Our Kids Dad]

chilwellred - 7/8/2017 14:31

surely team selection will be an evolutionary thing. (not necessarily errors in selection) warburton will select the right blend of players to make his system work. i do agree that his system should in theory work better away from home. time will tell. really hope that mr marinakis is not as trigger happy as he who shall no longer be named.

Definitely - we need stability - on & off the pitch.

PM made too many changes too often - so no chance for partnerships to evolve on the pitch. That said, cup games like this a perfect chance to get minutes under the belt for the squad.

Traore, Murphy & Vaughan would most likely be favourites for a rest - with the weekend fixture at Brentford in mind.

 

[Hawkeye1]

factchecker - 7/8/2017 09:12

BlackGold - 7/8/2017 09:05

factchecker - 7/8/2017 08:45

RedBeard - 6/8/2017 20:25

I raised a thread on this point prior to the season and I feel I must make the point again - why on Earth haven't we signed another CH??!!

We already have 4 senior central defenders plus Worrall (and maybe Lam) competing for two or three shirts.

Welcome to the world of FFP, where we have to work with a reasonably sized squad.

Next summer Fox, Mills and Hobbs are all out of contract, so there'll be some more room for manoeuvre in that area.

Does FFP restrict squad size?

No but it restricts expenditure and therefore requires a club in our position to be responsible in how many players they have.

Please tell me how Wolves are getting around FFP after spending £17 million on 2 players and last week bid £10 million on Gallagher at Southampton.

 

[chilwellred]

i think traore has room for improvement. caught out of position too often and was off the pace of the game. when he is up to speed he is a class act.

 

[toms]

chilwellred - 7/8/2017 14:31

surely team selection will be an evolutionary thing. (not necessarily errors in selection) warburton will select the right blend of players to make his system work. i do agree that his system should in theory work better away from home. time will tell. really hope that mr marinakis is not as trigger happy as he who shall no longer be named.

You mean Voldemort is still around? What? Thought Harry had sorted it.....

 

[factchecker]

Hawkeye1 - 7/8/2017 14:52

Please tell me how Wolves are getting around FFP after spending £17 million on 2 players and last week bid £10 million on Gallagher at Southampton.

They signed Neves on a 5 year contract, so the £15m transfer fee adds £3m a year to their losses.

Last financial results news I can find for them is 2014-15 when they made a profit of 2.4m with a parachute payment of £8m

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/wolverhampton-wanderers-fc/2016/03/09/wolves-finances-revealed-revenue-down-despite-promotion-as-parachute-payments-drop/

So, let say they lost £5m in 2015-16. That means they can lose £34m across last season and this without breaking the FFP limits.

Screws them if they don't go up this season, mind. Although they'll probably sell, which will help.

 

[mao tse tung]

Hawkeye1 - 7/8/2017 14:52

factchecker - 7/8/2017 09:12

BlackGold - 7/8/2017 09:05

factchecker - 7/8/2017 08:45

RedBeard - 6/8/2017 20:25

I raised a thread on this point prior to the season and I feel I must make the point again - why on Earth haven't we signed another CH??!!

We already have 4 senior central defenders plus Worrall (and maybe Lam) competing for two or three shirts.

Welcome to the world of FFP, where we have to work with a reasonably sized squad.

Next summer Fox, Mills and Hobbs are all out of contract, so there'll be some more room for manoeuvre in that area.

Does FFP restrict squad size?

No but it restricts expenditure and therefore requires a club in our position to be responsible in how many players they have.

Please tell me how Wolves are getting around FFP after spending £17 million on 2 players and last week bid £10 million on Gallagher at Southampton.

Because those fees are spread over the length of the contracts and they sold Afobe for 10m.

They are gambling heavily and will run out of room next season if they do not go up; they will have to offload or its embargo time.

Did you notice what Derby had to do with Hughes and Ince?

Well its a very similar scenario.

 

[Polly 433]

Quite a few teams that pushed the financial bar last year and this will have to cut their cloth next year unless they go up. Forest having had two years of low expenditure last couple of years. Only need to provide a semblance of balance to be in a relatively rich place next year. That is why it would be wise not to blow the BA millions this year on an over priced player (McDonadald at £7) when he will be available at £2M next year. Same with JJ at Luton.

Long-term strategy needs to be steady building this year. Finish mid table. Perfect passing style and club culture. Fill gaps and add quality at low prices. McKay looks a bargain. Expect a couple more young players at below £1m price next window. Nothing extravagant. Slowly, slowly catch a monkey.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Polly 433 - 7/8/2017 17:56

Quite a few teams that pushed the financial bar last year and this will have to cut their cloth next year unless they go up. Forest having had two years of low expenditure last couple of years. Only need to provide a semblance of balance to be in a relatively rich place next year. That is why it would be wise not to blow the BA millions this year on an over priced player (McDonadald at £7) when he will be available at £2M next year. Same with JJ at Luton.

Long-term strategy needs to be steady building this year. Finish mid table. Perfect passing style and club culture. Fill gaps and add quality at low prices. McKay looks a bargain. Expect a couple more young players at below £1m price next window. Nothing extravagant. Slowly, slowly catch a monkey.

That midfielder does need to come. It's false economy if not- you lose nearly as much in TV money and prize money if you are uncompetitive. Moreover, the price of players is just going to go up again next season. It's always going to be cheaper to solve the problem now if you can.

If McDonald's price goes down next season it will be because he is a less desirable proposition.

Hopefully we will try to steal in late on in the window, especially if Fulham are trying to land a target of their own. If we can't get McDonald then I sincerely hope MW has a backup plan he can go to late on.

In the mean time, I would play Lam tomorrow night to see if there is any chance of him adapting to that position and what MW wants

 

[Hucknall Red]

Sidney Vicious - 7/8/2017 11:13

Our Kids Dad - 7/8/2017 10:17

hyperkoi - 7/8/2017 09:26

New member so do not be harsh

Worrall got taught a lesson by an experienced forward, he will learn but that takes time. Smith's distribution has always ben poor and he panics when he receives the ball back to him especially if its on his right side. They must work on it in training but I cannot see any improvement so if Warburton wants to play this way we will need a new goalkeeper. We played far too slowly which allowed Millwall to put us under pressure so mistakes were made. The speed will need to be better if we are going to be successful with this method. Midfield were not strong enough in their tackling and lost the ball putting the already stressed defence put under more pressure. Both Bolton and Leeds looked to have larger players than we do so speed is a must. We will have similar problems against Shrewsbury who will probably play in a similar style to Millwall.

Welcome!

Defence starts from the front..... too early to criticise the players - some were very nervous in a teams with 4 debutants (including Dowell - who I thought looked excellent - not a RM!!) on opening day in front a big crowd.

Murphy had a tough job against a huge set of defenders & needs the ball to feet - he is not mobile enough to chase the ball down, but will bring others into play.

The midfield central 3; Ben O, Clough & Vaughan - too small. Clough & Ben O - too similar, for me you play 1 or other, unless Ben O wide left - thought Vaughan played well & looks fittest I've seen him.

We looked significantly better when Cohen & Dowell came on and Mills to shore up CH.

Missed Ward at RM - Brereton wasted out wide & underused! I still think Carayol will add balance - then moving McKay over to the right.

McKay & Darikwa both did well. Eric has a battle to get back in the side.

Millwall were a big, physical & direct side - but that was predictable, they were in a no lose situation - pretty much expected to lose against 'allegedly' big spending Forest.

Forest - work in progress - some positives, some negatives - all that matters, 3 points & a clean sheet.

Perhaps a reality check for some, but I'm a realist & primary targets for me, 55 points asap & financial stability!

As always a clear level headed and insightful view. So refreshing to read after the hysteria on here this weekend. I share your views OKD and although I was disappointed in Fridays performance I was delighted with the result. We all know that we got out of jail but we're off to a winning start and that's what counts over the length of the season - winning. As I said earlier we played exactly like we are, a team with debutants, youth finding their way in the first match of a long season. Avoiding a relegation battle is the aim this season. However, having said that I still think we'll surprise a few. I'm looking forward to tomorrow night and another 90 mins of competitive football for the squad to start to gel together. Playing is better than training- bring it on!

2 excellent posts, no hysterics, just well reasoned down to earth posts. :14:

 

[orbitalforest]

From what I can gather without having attended the Millwall game it sounds like we had loads of possession but moved the ball too slowly.
I'm hoping Bouchalakis gets his chance soon as he looks like a player that can keep play moving with a bit more tempo.
Osborn is not a CM , never has been , never will be.
Waste of a starting spot if we play him there imo.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

orbitalforest - 7/8/2017 20:27

From what I can gather without having attended the Millwall game it sounds like we had loads of possession but moved the ball too slowly.
I'm hoping Bouchalakis gets his chance soon as he looks like a player that can keep play moving with a bit more tempo.
Osborn is not a CM , never has been , never will be.
Waste of a starting spot if we play him there imo.

The Osborn problem is 'what is he'?

 

[orbitalforest]

Pope John XXIII - 7/8/2017 20:37

orbitalforest - 7/8/2017 20:27

From what I can gather without having attended the Millwall game it sounds like we had loads of possession but moved the ball too slowly.
I'm hoping Bouchalakis gets his chance soon as he looks like a player that can keep play moving with a bit more tempo.
Osborn is not a CM , never has been , never will be.
Waste of a starting spot if we play him there imo.

The Osborn problem is 'what is he'?

That's about it.
Good little player but where do you put him ?
Left mid .
Maybe a a floating role number 10 like Clough.
I don't see how you can accomodate both.

 

[Apollyon]

He is a great player but who will create and get you more goals in the number 10 role, him or Clough?

 

[Hucknall Red]

I watch Osborn and see him pushed off the ball so easy and always passing sideways, then I look at the stats and he is top or near top in all the important lists.

Can't make my mind up whether I want Clough or Osborne in the No.10 role, probably just edge to Clough as he seems a little more of an exciting prospect and should score more goals.

 

[orbitalforest]

Apollyon - 7/8/2017 21:50

He is a great player but who will create and get you more goals in the number 10 role, him or Clough?

Tough one but for me maybe rotating between the two .
I wouldn't start both especially if Osborn is deployed down the middle , makes us far too physically weak i reckon.

 

[Lienking]

orbitalforest - 7/8/2017 22:00

Apollyon - 7/8/2017 21:50

He is a great player but who will create and get you more goals in the number 10 role, him or Clough?

Tough one but for me maybe rotating between the two .
I wouldn't start both especially if Osborn is deployed down the middle , makes us far too physically weak i reckon.

From what bit I saw of him against Millwall, Dowell will make a far better job of the number 10 position than either of this pair. He was superb on the ball, but didn't look strong enough to be a main central midfielder.

 

[wesimmo]

That kid from Everton looked a player from the minute he came on.

The problem is, he should dislodge Osborn or Clough for me, they're all players who will do the risky stuff and create something, but they need to be doing it in the right areas.