Marty Fryatt sues Forest

[JC21]

So you support wealthy powerful folk being able to do as they wish with that wealth and power including forming cabals to control the world?

Now you're just getting ridiculous. Post yourself that cuckoo meme. We are talking about an individual who has earned money (whether he deserves that amount of money in the first place is irrelevant). This individual then should have the choice to do what he wants with his money not be told he HAS to save it for when he's older.

 

[Our Kids Dad]

I work in an area that deals mainly with the self employed and it’s frightening how little these people earn if you believe their returns. It’s also shocking how quickly they can find what they owe when their house is suddenly at risk.

I can imagine that there was much gnashing of teeth when the Government announced that any payout would be based on previous tax returns.

As you say HMRC is hideously under-resourced but I wouldn’t be surprised to see more money invested as it is more than worth it for what they would recoup in taxes.

I work with the employed and self employed - those laughing at the tax they 'don't pay' compared to the tax paid by others is very much coming to an end - there will be big changes ahead, driven the need to recoup what the government has paid out in support.

Everyday (somewhat accelerated by covid-19) we move further into a cashless society.

As technology evolves, HMRC's ability to increase the tax take will improve - not necessarily by having to have more resources, although that will no doubt happen anyway.

 

[Basha73]

I work with the employed and self employed - those laughing at the tax they 'don't pay' compared to the tax paid by others is very much coming to an end - there will be big changes ahead, driven the need to recoup what the government has paid out in support.

Everyday (somewhat accelerated by covid-19) we move further into a cashless society.

As technology evolves, HMRC's ability to increase the tax take will improve - not necessarily by having to have more resources, although that will no doubt happen anyway.

I totally agree. The cashless society can’t come soon enough from that perspective.

This crisis has put a lot of things into perspective and it was only a matter of time before steps were taken as tax avoidance is so simple and costs the country billions.

 

[Our Kids Dad]

Never argue with an accountant...

I'm not an accountant - honestly, genuinely!

 

[Our Kids Dad]

I totally agree. The cashless society can’t come soon enough from that perspective.

This crisis has put a lot of things into perspective and it was only a matter of time before steps were taken as tax avoidance is so simple and costs the country billions.

Absolutely agree - Rishi Sunak has said that he intends for the Tax/NI system to be aligned so that it is fair for all. That is about as far from a veiled threat as is possible - sole traders beware.

You can't have it both ways - whether that's expecting governmental support on the basis of negligible NI/Tax paid or just something as daft as looking to get a mortgage/loan etc. They have given warnings for several years now.


One of the lads that I play football with is a plumber, he gets tax credits £500+ pcm for his 2 children, who go the same school as my daughter and he's always got a wallet full of cash but brags about paying no income tax, because he's part time!!!

His wife works part time (in a clerical role - just to keep vague).

Nice house, he drives a BMW M4 (only a few years old & that's the weekend car), wife has an Audi TT RS (may be a 3- 4 years old) - several holidays abroad per annum (pre-covid).

Fair enough, he does work hard and I don't begrudge anyone for reaping the rewards of hard work, but it's taking the mickey and I tell him that regularly, whilst pointing out that it wouldn't take a tax inspector too long to work out he may be earning a bit more than £12500 per annum - the cars cost more than that!

 

[Basha73]

Absolutely agree - Rishi Sunak has said that he intends for the Tax/NI system to be aligned so that it is fair for all. That is about as far from a veiled threat as is possible - sole traders beware.

You can't have it both ways - whether that's expecting governmental support on the basis of negligible NI/Tax paid or just something as daft as looking to get a mortgage/loan etc. They have given warnings for several years now.


One of the lads that I play football with is a plumber, he gets tax credits £500+ pcm for his 2 children, who go the same school as my daughter and he's always got a wallet full of cash but brags about paying no income tax, because he's part time!!!

His wife works part time (in a clerical role - just to keep vague).

Nice house, he drives a BMW M4 (only a few years old & that's the weekend car), wife has an Audi TT RS (may be a 3- 4 years old) - several holidays abroad per annum (pre-covid).

Fair enough, he does work hard and I don't begrudge anyone for reaping the rewards of hard work, but it's taking the mickey and I tell him that regularly, whilst pointing out that it wouldn't take a tax inspector too long to work out he may be earning a bit more than £12500 per annum - the cars cost more than that!

My job regularly brings me into contact with self employed people and it can be an absolute nightmare. Some of them believe it’s their right to not pay any tax and it can be very interesting when their bubble is burst.

The sooner the playing field is levelled the better then HMRC can start on umbrella companies...

 

[Pope John XXIII]

I did say, "don't this out of context" - which, you then did, but I can understand why!!!

100000% - my post was in no way aimed at you personally nor at your abilities as a teacher. I am certainly not questioning that - hope that clarifies!

The inference was to use you as a yardstick, a highly educated adult (by comparison to, let's say footballers - not all of whom are as 'thick' as some make out) and if you don't know what NI is, why you pay it and broadly what it provides - then what hope is there for lesser educated individuals & that's before you move onto more complex subjects like pensions.

The post/criticism, is actually aimed at the wider educational system and the glaring hole therein when it comes to fiscal education and I'm talking at a relatively low level, (from as basic a level as bank accounts, then building from there to cover other 'everyday subjects') not an in depth knowledge of the National Insurance (NI), taxation or social benefit system.


Apologies for any misunderstanding & hope that explains.

I'm fine with that, apologies. It has been a long day.

If you think people's understanding of tax is bad, you should see the political system.

When I have sent out a series of lessons on how the British political system worked, half my teachers (and I'm talking about people towards the end of their careers here) told me how interesting they found it because they never understood how it worked.

I'm talking about constituencies and MPs here, not advanced constitutional law

 

[Our Kids Dad]

I'm fine with that, apologies. It has been a long day.

If you think people's understanding of tax is bad, you should see the political system.

When I have sent out a series of lessons on how the British political system worked, half my teachers (and I'm talking about people towards the end of their careers here) told me how interesting they found it because they never understood how it worked.

I'm talking about constituencies and MPs here, not advanced constitutional law

No problem... some days are better than others... I try not to post when I've had a bad day, all too frequent these last few weeks!

Hope the day improves for you & yours!

 

[mao tse tung]

Absolutely agree - Rishi Sunak has said that he intends for the Tax/NI system to be aligned so that it is fair for all. That is about as far from a veiled threat as is possible - sole traders beware.

You can't have it both ways - whether that's expecting governmental support on the basis of negligible NI/Tax paid or just something as daft as looking to get a mortgage/loan etc. They have given warnings for several years now.


One of the lads that I play football with is a plumber, he gets tax credits £500+ pcm for his 2 children, who go the same school as my daughter and he's always got a wallet full of cash but brags about paying no income tax, because he's part time!!!

His wife works part time (in a clerical role - just to keep vague).

Nice house, he drives a BMW M4 (only a few years old & that's the weekend car), wife has an Audi TT RS (may be a 3- 4 years old) - several holidays abroad per annum (pre-covid).

Fair enough, he does work hard and I don't begrudge anyone for reaping the rewards of hard work, but it's taking the mickey and I tell him that regularly, whilst pointing out that it wouldn't take a tax inspector too long to work out he may be earning a bit more than £12500 per annum - the cars cost more than that!

And yet the first thing Sunak did was move the IR35 implementation back 12 Months; enforcing that rule would have sorted out a lot of the abusers.

The Government did absolutely nothing when all those mid level managers at the BBC and the NHS applied for, and got, redundancy and were then reemployed in their old positions on a self employed basis.

As for the Governmental support for Covid; most of the comedians who pay them selves a very low wage would have gotten little support from HMRC; the level of support you got was based on income

 

[mao tse tung]

Ok, that is quite a savage reply and I'm not sure where that came from.

I do know what NI is for and where it goes.

But I also had a flatmate at university in the early 00's who was a huge Tory, big proponent of private healthcare, and he was opting out of parts of NI; presumably the bits you mention that not cannot be opted out of. Or maybe he was full of shit.

I am not an employer so I won't have the detailed knowledge of NI that you do, but for you to become the latest person on this forum to imply aspersions on my abilities as a teacher based on something said on a football forum is disappointing. I hope I am just reading that wrong after a long day and quite a harrowing meeting with social care this afternoon.

I have certainly spent a lot of hours writing lessons for my students (and I don't mean classes, my job is a lot bigger than that) which explains the way the world works to them; from politics and the political system to how businesses work and what their rights are if they are arrested. And yes, there is a detailed one about where their tax money goes and how tax bands work (which they really have no clue on). Maybe I should do a separate one on NI, but to be honest the idea didn't occur to me and I only have so many weeks and lots of the world to cover.

So apologies if NI has changed in the last 20 years without my knowledge while I have been quietly paying it.

But I am actually very good at my job and so are most teachers. For every 100 new things we add to our curriculum, another 200 things we "should" be teaching will be thought of

I think private health cover was tax deductible at one time; most people get it as a benefit in kind now and end up paying tax on the benefit

 

[mao tse tung]

In a word - no!

Blimey - could you imagine the drop down menu for how your NI is used & what benefits you'd get.... as per above, that's a high risk philosophy - hoping the paramedic can cure you, without needing to see a GP, Dentist, Doctor/Nurse at hospital etc at the time of need!!

You did used to be able to opt out of certain aspects of NI, but that related to SERPS, S2P etc - that's been abolished.

NI = National Insurance - this is mandatory based upon earning levels, it goes towards NHS, social security type benefits and the state pension. NI ceases at State Retirement age (currently) BUT the costs of covid-19 will almost certainly see changes to NI (increases in contributions) and increased taxation (in due course).

PS - You can even pay voluntary contributions to ensure you get the full state pension (a very undervalued benefit!!).


Please don't take this out of context, but you're an adult (I think with a disabled child? - apologies if wrong) and a teacher and if you don't know what NI is and what it's used for, then it's a pretty sad indictment of the 'financial' education that we provide for our children.

It may well be something that you just weren't interested in at school, but I have been suggesting for sometime (in chats with headmasters when delivering some some other coaching sessions) that the curriculum needs to factor in fiscal education - not just at secondary school level either.

I sent some ideas to a publisher a few years ago, about a series of books on this subject and they were very keen, but I just didn't see how this could pay my own household bills, if I gave it the time needed - as that would be at the detriment of the normal day job.

Are you a Financial Adviser by any chance?

 

[Old Red Fart]

Not taken wrong way mate, they're 17 and 15 and I agree people do need a kick up the arse sometimes (other times they just need to be spoken to sensibly) but, in my opinion, things like having wages taken from them for future years is just wrong, it should be entirely up to the individual. You can't force something like this on people and especially the sensible ones that would ultimately be paying the price for the ones that won't heed the advice

Understood JC. I do understand the principal of having part of my wages taken out towards my future, it's par for the course here and completely legal and compulsory and it works well. Although it's foreign to you folk. Possibly my opinion is coloured by the fact that a good many young footballers don't yet posses an adult brain and perhaps need better advice than they're getting. I'd like to see the clubs having more of a constructive input than many of them seem to have.
I just hope that our club is already doing the right thing.

 

[Our Kids Dad]

And yet the first thing Sunak did was move the IR35 implementation back 12 Months; enforcing that rule would have sorted out a lot of the abusers.

The Government did absolutely nothing when all those mid level managers at the BBC and the NHS applied for, and got, redundancy and were then reemployed in their old positions on a self employed basis.

As for the Governmental support for Covid; most of the comedians who pay them selves a very low wage would have gotten little support from HMRC; the level of support you got was based on income

I don't think he could implement IR35 at this time, there has to be a degree of massaging the economy to keep some parts ticking over - but, it will happen.

That said, the latest figures for April showing UK economy shrinking by over 20% - will add pressure for more stimulus and perhaps a deferral of planned tax hikes... our grandkids', kids will still be paying for this!

Lots of bad economic data ahead and mass unemployment up to and certainly after 1st August when employers have to pay 20% towards furlough.


I haven't applied for any support from HMRC, loans have to be repaid.... better to use my own resources where possible & whilst income/turnover has been hit hard, there's still enough to tick over and the last 4 weeks have been manic.

 

[mao tse tung]

I don't think he could implement IR35 at this time, there has to be a degree of massaging the economy to keep some parts ticking over - but, it will happen.

That said, the latest figures for April showing UK economy shrinking by over 20% - will add pressure for more stimulus and perhaps a deferral of planned tax hikes... our grandkids', kids will still be paying for this!

Lots of bad economic data ahead and mass unemployment up to and certainly after 1st August when employers have to pay 20% towards furlough.


I haven't applied for any support from HMRC, loans have to be repaid.... better to use my own resources where possible & whilst income/turnover has been hit hard, there's still enough to tick over and the last 4 weeks have been manic.

Another 12 Months and the Accountants will have worked out a way to get round IR35; even if they have not figured a way round it, you can guarantee it will not catch the Tax cheats.

I have just changed Accountants; the first thing he said to me during our review was "you are paying yourself too much, and, as a consequence, you are paying too much tax and NI"

People are being encouraged to avoid paying Tax.

 

[Our Kids Dad]

Another 12 Months and the Accountants will have worked out a way to get round IR35; even if they have not figured a way round it, you can guarantee it will not catch the Tax cheats.

I have just changed Accountants; the first thing he said to me during our review was "you are paying yourself too much, and, as a consequence, you are paying too much tax and NI"

People are being encouraged to avoid paying Tax.

That's nothing new.

 

[The Poacher]

I dont think I ever said forced.

There is no legal way you could do that.

But you can make it automatic and an opt out, like with pensions and NI

Good idea pope, that will work.

 

[paz1967]

I work with the employed and self employed - those laughing at the tax they 'don't pay' compared to the tax paid by others is very much coming to an end - there will be big changes ahead, driven the need to recoup what the government has paid out in support.

Everyday (somewhat accelerated by covid-19) we move further into a cashless society.

As technology evolves, HMRC's ability to increase the tax take will improve - not necessarily by having to have more resources, although that will no doubt happen anyway.

actually cash seems to what everyone now realises we need. I know mine will genuinelly start to go under my matress.