Wayne.Kerr
Vital Champions League
But in some areas of our economy we were already in recession; so we'd need more than slow growth. Then it depends on who you believe. No doubt you took the optimistic predictions; I took the average.
Not quite sure what the point is....
It reads as bit of word play, plausible if one doesn't examine .....but here goes.
Surely their is a HUGE difference between one's relationship with a child, sibling, parent.
Who would begrudge the mother of George Floyd saying:
"George's life matters' ?
'Black Lives Matter' is NOT about an individual. It is selective, tribal ......racist.
'All Lives Matter' is inclusive and colour blind.
If I misunderstood the point, please say.
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Nobby_66
Vital Football Hero
At this moment, the BLM movement (the mother) are grieving and horrified that their race has been let down again by the murder of one if their own. (The baby)
For others to say that their lives matter, although factually correct, intrudes on that grieving process. Why would the mother care, at that moment in time, about the value of anyone else's life?
valenciagill
Vital Football Hero
This guy is a 'medical expert' from New York
ThreeSixes
Vital Football Hero
The point is that George Floyd is different to the other 40 daily US murder victims. White people aren't supposed to kill, and white Police officers especially aren't .
There may be some cross-purpose here......
..., so I'll focus on that Tweet from 'your girlfriends favourite photographer" which is itself "embarrassing" - as it fails completely to understand what "All Lives Matter" means.
"All Lives Matter" means each and every individual life matters - regardless of race, sex, whatever.
(What else can it mean ?)
"Black Lives Matter" is exclusive. It treats a victim NOT as an individual, but as an anonymous clone. For activists, a "recruit" for a cause.
So that imaginary mic-grabber would not be respecting the grieving mother or victim as individuals who "matter".
He sounds like a BLM activist treating the victim as the property of the collective.
Yes and No.
George Floyd is an individual. His life matters. The other 40 murder victims matter.
ALL lives matter.
And why "white" people aren't supposed to kill? Why not just "people" ?
(Are black people "supposed" to kill ?)
And "white" Policemen "especially" not supposed to kill ?
(Do Black Policeman get a smidgen of latitude ?)
Hopefully you see the problem with allowing activists to hijack a crime and introduce a narrative of "race". It can lead us down into all sorts of divisive, identity-based bunkers.
If some of those 40 other murder victims are not black - what does the creation of BLM do for the non-black victims ?
So "BLM" is exclusive, racist.
A guilty cop should be punished - like any other criminal - with a sentence to match the crime.
Trev_GFC
Vital 1st Team Regular
Everyone should be treated equally, absolutely.
Not everyone is treated equally though. Black people are treated on a lower level to white people.
That’s why there’s “black lives matter” - think of it as “black lives matter AS MUCH AS EVERYONE ELSE”.
Once we realise and attain this, then we can happily say “all lives matter”.
Not everyone is treated equally though. Black people are treated on a lower level to white people.
That’s why there’s “black lives matter” - think of it as “black lives matter AS MUCH AS EVERYONE ELSE”.
Once we realise and attain this, then we can happily say “all lives matter”.
alphabet_king
Vital 1st Team Regular
I find it absolutely bonkers that people dont realise "black lives matter" is simply short for "black lives matter as much as others".
Of course all lives bloody matter. But thats not the point.
The whole reason for this movement gaining so much popularity and notoriety is because black people feel that others think their lives DONT matter as much as everyone else's. Note, its only really privileged white people that feel the need to correct it to "all lives matter". They simply dont get it and probably never will.
Buddha
Vital Football Hero
To fully understand and appreciate the movement, Black Lives Matter, you need to either be black or be an anti-racist.
People who don't understand it or stupidly try to argue that all lives matter are either racists or, if not, they certainly aint committed anti-racists.
It is no longer enough for non racist white people to simply be not racist. Any non racist who has not previously been actively and vocally anti-racist must now become so. As privileged white individuals we owe it to our black brothers and sisters to stand up and fight racism, in all its ugly forms, until it is crushed into the ground and buried forever.
People who don't understand it or stupidly try to argue that all lives matter are either racists or, if not, they certainly aint committed anti-racists.
It is no longer enough for non racist white people to simply be not racist. Any non racist who has not previously been actively and vocally anti-racist must now become so. As privileged white individuals we owe it to our black brothers and sisters to stand up and fight racism, in all its ugly forms, until it is crushed into the ground and buried forever.
Jerryattrick
Vital Football Hero
I am not white privileged and I object to being told it by the new gang of identity politics spouting intellectuals as it is divide and rule.
In fact many non racist people I know get genuinely annoyed with it.
There are a lot of black people much more privileged then me in other ways.
Also, if you are a poor non black immigrant you may consider others in this country to have black privilege.
We are one and we fight for anyone underprivileged and call out injustice wherever we see it.
I will not bend down to any division by identity politics shaming or people calling me anti semetic or any other slur. Most of these identity freaks including those in the media have done nothing towards solving these basic issues of inequality ever, have never suffered because they have stood up. Its easy for them to talk every now and again. Ooh i went on a demo or oh look at me, i went on one knee or said something clever on twitter, then as usual I forgot about it. Do you hear any of these people pushing to stop knife crime or to improve education or life chance?
If they are so fired up about something then why are they not organising every day to make change instead of working only for their identity.
I know exactly where these people are coming from but vilifying white people is racist and it is division. Equality is equality.
Buddha
Vital Football Hero
I'm not vilifying white people and equality is equality.
White people are definitely privileged. You're apparently so privileged you don't even recognise it!
Jerryattrick
Vital Football Hero
Is that right. I have been working this since the sixties and hung with my family and black friends in brixton in a time when signs told you no blacks, Irish or dogs and **** bashing was rife. Have seen youngsters thrown against the wall, arrested in front of me for nothing, then having to work on their bail, have been attacked by police and fascists at many demos.
I was there for the brixton riots, not observing it on tv or through the media. I have lived in this world, it is my world. My kids are mixed race as are members of my family, I dont have the luxury of quoting slogans. I hate racism and fascism and will not be divided against my fellow human
Never at any time did different ethnic groups under the anti nazi league or any meeting I ever attended mention each others ethnicity or ‘privilege’ or historical advantages because the priority was to organise and fight for change for the common good. Remember our cry - ‘the workers UNITED will never be defeated’. Its not ‘my identity united will never be defeated’.
Buddha
Vital Football Hero
You've completely misunderstood me.
I know you're an anti fascist and an anti racist. So am I.
I don't seek to divide. Just like you, I am all for unity.
You may well have black friends and mixed race kids and that will have given you a better understanding than most white people. But it doesn't make you black and unless you are black you just aint gonna understand. I don't understand but at least I understand that I don't understand!
Realising and accepting that we, through no fault of our own, are privileged as white folk, is the first step towards changing the situation so that there is no privilege and no racism.
Christ, can't believe you want to argue with me about this. We're on the same side! Stop trying to divide the anti-racists! Go after the racist scum!!
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nitram77
Vital 1st Team Regular
For a anarchist you are very quick to tell people what they must think or do, I am not black so I must be white and privileged. I can never understand the whole racist issue because I'm white and privileged, I must therefor be racist so why bother trying if I can never understand.
I sometimes feel that there is as much prejudice coming from the anti as there is from the racist, why has there got to be groups, sects, movements that if you are not a member you must be anti. Your passion is admiral but sometimes you can turn allies away by trying too hard.
I sometimes feel that there is as much prejudice coming from the anti as there is from the racist, why has there got to be groups, sects, movements that if you are not a member you must be anti. Your passion is admiral but sometimes you can turn allies away by trying too hard.
markinkent
Vital Football Hero
Difference between cause (protestors not social distancing) and root cause (why were they protesting).
He is actually correct if you consider root cause .
I think they are crazy to protest in large groups. They might have got more traction by persuading influential black people (TV, politicians, sports, police, military, etc.) to publically withdraw their labour. That may have been more effective than looting the Nike store.
ThreeSixes
Vital Football Hero
Yep.
Lots of people are racist, and some ethnic groups are more racist than others. But the worst sort of racism is where the perpetrator is white, and If you think otherwise you must be a racist yourself.
ThreeSixes
Vital Football Hero
I'd love you to go to a run down, industrial white town like Rotherham or Middlesbrough and do a lecture on "white privilege"!
nitram77
Vital 1st Team Regular
I think you have just proved my point.
