JANUARY WINDOW THREAD

[king_dezeeuw06]

I’ve felt this way for a long time. Wyke, Lang and Godo with Cal Mac and Humps as backup is as good as any forward line in League 1 if played to its strengths.
We were a fully fit Matt Smith and probably another experienced centre mid away from being really strong this year but we’ve looked far from that.

The deduction, restrictions and instability obviously had a large negative impact coming into this season and you obviously take that into account. But I still thought we ended up with a strong squad for L1 and but we've played like a team drastically less than the sum of it's parts.

This group isn't perfect but I've got way more faith in them than thinking that staying up is the limit if their ability. The -8 points made the play offs tough, so I wasn't expecting us to be sitting in those places at this point in the season, but im judging it on a game by game basis I think we've overall been under performing. What's been most disappointing is we've not really been showing that much progress in our style of play getting better. Back in August when you'd expect us to be unsure as it was new we were miles better at it than we are now after doing it for months when you'd expect it to be settling down and the players used to it.

 

[Pubey]

I think the equation is simple - Maloney can't have a pot of money in the summer to rebuild the squad if we continue to pay large wages to players that he either doesn't fancy, or who don't want to be here. I think with Wyke and Lang it was clear that they would leave, and so it made sense to do it sooner rather than the summer.

While there's still a (slim) risk of being relegated, I think we have a good and competitive squad, and I don't think having Lang or Wyke would actually improve our chances of staying up as they were way short of form/confidence and are pretty big personalities in the dressing room.

We either have a transfer budget by selling our best assets (Hughes/Tickle/Thelo), or by shifting some wages. The work begins now to secure our place in L1 and enable Maloney to build his own squad.

 

[moonay]

The deduction, restrictions and instability obviously had a large negative impact coming into this season and you obviously take that into account. But I still thought we ended up with a strong squad for L1 and but we've played like a team drastically less than the sum of it's parts.

This group isn't perfect but I've got way more faith in them than thinking that staying up is the limit if their ability. The -8 points made the play offs tough, so I wasn't expecting us to be sitting in those places, but im judging it on a game by game basis I think we've overall been under performing this season and we've not really been showing that much progress in our style of play from the start of the season unfortunately.

I'm sure you see the contradictions in your post KDZ. Like Frank, you say you think we started with a strong squad, which is under performing, and yet we're in 13th (would be 9th).

With regard to the squad, we were left with: Amos, Hughes, Pearce, Kerr ... Adeeko, S Smith, Aasgard, McHugh, ... McManaman, Lang, Wyke, Magennis, Humphrys, Jones, Sze, Stones, .... take out the youngsters and a (self-admittedly rejuvenated) Jordan Jones, and I'm not sure the rest deserve your confidence. Of course, the manager has done well with (most of) his acquisitions, but the residue from last season was basically who we couldn't get rid of, or the youngsters no-one knew who we wisely got signed up on long term contracts.

I have to admit that our performances at times have been a hard watch, though equally, they've (at times within games) been a joy, but looking at the league table, we've got to give the team and the manager credit for doing exactly what's been asked of them this season.

So ... strong squad? - not sure I agree. Underperforming? - as q spectacle, maybe .... underperforming as a league position? - definitely not.

 

[Made in Wigan]

Just remind me how many Wyke and Lang scored

Wyke is I think our second top scorer.

Two very decent players when used right and unfortunately they haven’t been used right. That leaves us Magennis, who let’s be honest is one lazy fucker and is shit. Plus this qpr lad whose record suggests he ain’t very good and an out of form Humphrys. Unquestionably we are now weaker in the forward areas and as regress further toward our own goal every passing game I don’t so many goals being scored by us in the next three months.

 

[C_Latic]

Of course we are weaker, but so is our wage budget. We've got more than enough to stay up though and let's be honest that's all that matters. Provided Godo stays fit and we keep putting away the shite teams at home, we'll be fine.

 

[BrickLatic]

The thing Humphrys is "lacking" most is ability, that is why he was shipped out on loan last season and the same reason Hearts played him infrequently and returned him when his loan term ended.

corect. ive noticed hes alweys the furst to offer himself up for a short corner to. then losing it. instead of geting his arris in the box where he shuld be.

apologys to th10. posted this before seeing yours. at leest im not the only one seeing this in him.

 

[Life in a Blue One]

Wyke is I think our second top scorer.

Two very decent players when used right and unfortunately they haven’t been used right. That leaves us Magennis, who let’s be honest is one lazy fucker and is shit. Plus this qpr lad whose record suggests he ain’t very good and an out of form Humphrys. Unquestionably we are now weaker in the forward areas and as regress further toward our own goal every passing game I don’t so many goals being scored by us in the next three months.

I disagree with the terminology. They are two very decent players when used in a certain system and position. Seeing as Maloney has shown that the system isn't consistent with how we will be playing going forwards and is establishing his own side to play the way he wants too, there seems little benefit to keeping them. I don't believe they haven't been 'used right'; neither has performed well enough over Maloneys tenure to suggest that we should look to build a side around their abilities.

Maloney has, in my opinion, earned a level of trust with his transfer dealings and this QPR lad may well be a better fit than his record suggests. I am optimistic he will suit more than Lang or Wyke anyhow.

For these reasons I don't think we are unquestionably weaker, certainly not in real terms.

 

[BrickLatic]

At this level if you are creating chances for a fox in the box type - Wyke is as good as you are hoing to get.

But unfortunately we arent producing many chances now and putting balls in the box, so striker role has become pretty just battling centre halves outside the box and that's never been Wykes strength.

I don't think Maloney ever really fancied Wyke, so no suprise he's been allowed out if someone agreed to take on his large wages.

Like with Langs departure I feel a massive sense of frustration - not because we are letting a player in good form go, but because we had players capable of so much and we hardly got anything out of them this season compared to what we should.

At this level if you keep getting crosses in the box Wyke should worth 20 odd goals, and it looked like he'd easy do that as he raced to 5 goals in the first 4 games and was player of the month for L1. But then we stopped creating chances for him and we've pretty much got nothing out of him since.

It's been such a massive waste and missed opportunity for us. But he wasn't getting anything out of working under Maloney, Maloney wasn't getting anything out of him and the club wasn't getting any value for money. So it became in everyone's best interests he moves on.

I don't think we are doing well at getting the best out of the players we have and that is a concern I have in general going forward.

corect. its looking as if sean has taken his pasing out from the back game and now wants us to pass it into the net.

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

A

I'm sure you see the contradictions in your post KDZ. Like Frank, you say you think we started with a strong squad, which is under performing, and yet we're in 13th (would be 9th).

With regard to the squad, we were left with: Amos, Hughes, Pearce, Kerr ... Adeeko, S Smith, Aasgard, McHugh, ... McManaman, Lang, Wyke, Magennis, Humphrys, Jones, Sze, Stones, .... take out the youngsters and a (self-admittedly rejuvenated) Jordan Jones, and I'm not sure the rest deserve your confidence. Of course, the manager has done well with (most of) his acquisitions, but the residue from last season was basically who we couldn't get rid of, or the youngsters no-one knew who we wisely got signed up on long term contracts.

I have to admit that our performances at times have been a hard watch, though equally, they've (at times within games) been a joy, but looking at the league table, we've got to give the team and the manager credit for doing exactly what's been asked of them this season.

So ... strong squad? - not sure I agree. Underperforming? - as q spectacle, maybe .... underperforming as a league position? - definitely not.

Tickle is one of the best keepers in the league.

Hughes and Morrison are 2 of the stronger centre halves in the league.

Chambers looks excellent.

Matt Smith is one of the better central midfielders in this league.

Godo is one of the best wingers in the league.

Humphrys and Jones both shown how much talent they've got and on their day are 2 of the best in the league.

Lang got about 25 goal contributions at this level last time.

Wyke scored 30 odd goals for Sunderland in his last full L1 season and looked like he could do it again in August.

Then we've also got Shaw who's looked pretty decent when used, Aasgaard who's obviously got lots of talent, McMannaman has been a very effective super sub, Johnny Smith has looked decent and Kerr coming back who should be very good at this level. Granted there are some lesser players filling out the rest of the squad but for L1 that team is overall strong - even if it hasn't shown it that much.

Due to the points deduction judging on the league table isn't going to give an accurate depiction, so i'm judging by looking at all the games we've played the quality of opposition player and how they played compared to the quality of player we have and how we played. With a handful of exceptions where we've been excellent and shown how good we can be, we've played way below ourselves most of the time, we don't look like we are progressing and seem completely unable to perform for more than 1 half per game.

In my opinion we are performing to a standard much less than the sum of it's parts and that is a concern that is growing.

 

[Made in Wigan]

A


Tickle is one of the best keepers in the league.

Hughes and Morrison are 2 of the stronger centre halves in the league.

Chambers looks excellent.

Matt Smith is one of the better central midfielders in this league.

Godo is one of the best wingers in the league.

Humphrys and Jones both shown how much talent they've got and on their day are 2 of the best in the league.

Lang got about 25 goal contributions at this level last time.

Wyke scored 30 odd goals for Sunderland in his last full L1 season and looked like he could do it again in August.

Then we've also got Shaw who's looked pretty decent when used, Aasgaard who's obviously got lots of talent, McMannaman has been a very effective super sub, Johnny Smith has looked decent and Kerr coming back who should be very good at this level. Granted there are some lesser players filling out the rest of the squad but for L1 that team is overall strong - even if it hasn't shown it that much.

Due to the points deduction judging on the league table isn't going to give an accurate depiction, so i'm judging by looking at all the games we've played the quality of opposition player and how they played compared to the quality of player we have and how we played. With a handful of exceptions where we've been excellent and shown how good we can be, we've played way below ourselves most of the time, we don't look like we are progressing and seem completely unable to perform for more than 1 half per game.

In my opinion we are performing to a standard much less than the sum of it's parts and that is a concern that is growing.

Exactly my thoughts. It’s why I said the other week I’m concerned for next season as we won’t have this quality of player available.

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

Exactly my thoughts. It’s why I said the other week I’m concerned for next season as we won’t have this quality of player available.

Unfortunately i've been thinking that too.

I think the points deduction and difficult summer have kind of masked how much we've under performed this season to be honest. We've even seen on occasion how good we can be, which makes it more concerning to see how often and how far we play below that.

 

[moonay]

A


Tickle is one of the best keepers in the league.

Hughes and Morrison are 2 of the stronger centre halves in the league.

Chambers looks excellent.

Matt Smith is one of the better central midfielders in this league.

Godo is one of the best wingers in the league.

Humphrys and Jones both shown how much talent they've got and on their day are 2 of the best in the league.

Lang got about 25 goal contributions at this level last season.

Wyke scored 30 odd goals for Sunderland in his last full L1 season.

Then we've also got Shaw who's looked pretty decent when used, Aasgaard who's obviously got lots of talent, McMannaman has been a very effective super sub. Then we've got Kerr coming back who should be very good at this level. Granted there are some lesser players filling out the rest of the squad but for L1 that team is overall strong - even if it hasn't shown it that much.

Due to the points deduction judging on the league table isn't going to give an accurate depiction, so i'm judging by looking at all the games we've played the quality of opposition player and how they played compared to the quality of player we have and how we played. With a handful of exceptions where we've been excellent and shown how good we can be, we've played way below ourselves most of the time, we don't look like we are progressing and seem completely unable to perform for more than 1 half per game.

In my opinion we are performing to a standard much less than the sum of it's parts and that is a concern that is growing.

Hold on:
Tickle played one game last season, and a few eyebrows went up when he was first choice ahead of Amos
Little was known about any of the loanees before they arrived.
Humphrys previous performances (either for us or for Hearts) hardly justified any great expectations.
Same can be said for Jones ... in fact his recent article all but says he'd let himself down.
Lang, fair point ... I missed him out, as he's not on our team page now.
Wyke, you're going back 3 season there ! Post his heart attack, I'm not sure anyone knew how he was going to be affected long term.
I don't remember much rejoicing when McManaman signed ... I seem to remember there was ridicule given his lack of performance in his second spell with us.
Kerr was going to be out for half (or more) of the season at the start of it.

Sorry KDZ, but I don't see how at the start of the season you could possibly have (legitimately) thought we had a strongest squad for the league.

Looking at our league position, understanding where we were at the start of the season, and knowing the lack of (first team) experience in a significant number of our squad, I'm amazed that anyone would think we're doing anything less than great. Could it be better? Yes. Could we have been more consistent? Of course. Would we have been satisfied with our current position before a ball was kicked? Abso-bloody-lutely.

In my opinion, we're in effectively 10th place, even though we've not always played well, with a team made up of those who we couldn't get rid of, those who'd hardly any first team experience, and those we managed to get in on loan.
The manager's getting a B+ from me so far.

 

[moonay]

Exactly my thoughts. It’s why I said the other week I’m concerned for next season as we won’t have this quality of player available.

???
They'll either still be here (Tickle and Hughes) or they'll be gone for big money, in which case, replacements will be brought in ... notwithstanding the fact we've other young lads waiting in the wings.

I don't understand that concern.

 

[moonay]

Unfortunately i've been thinking that too.

I think the points deduction and difficult summer have kind of masked how much we've under performed this season to be honest. We've even seen on occasion how good we can be, which makes it more concerning to see how often and how far we play below that.

Got to love how you take the pessimistic view rather than optimistic ... isn't it illogical to think it'll get worse rather than getting better and being more consistent?

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

Hold on:
Tickle played one game last season, and a few eyebrows went up when he was first choice ahead of Amos
Little was known about any of the loanees before they arrived.
Humphrys previous performances (either for us or for Hearts) hardly justified any great expectations.
Same can be said for Jones ... in fact his recent article all but says he'd let himself down.
Lang, fair point ... I missed him out, as he's not on our team page now.
Wyke, you're going back 3 season there ! Post his heart attack, I'm not sure anyone knew how he was going to be affected long term.
I don't remember much rejoicing when McManaman signed ... I seem to remember there was ridicule given his lack of performance in his second spell with us.
Kerr was going to be out for half (or more) of the season at the start of it.

Sorry KDZ, but I don't see how at the start of the season you could possibly have (legitimately) thought we had a strongest squad for the league.

Looking at our league position, understanding where we were at the start of the season, and knowing the lack of (first team) experience in a significant number of our squad, I'm amazed that anyone would think we're doing anything less than great. Could it be better? Yes. Could we have been more consistent? Of course. Would we have been satisfied with our current position before a ball was kicked? Abso-bloody-lutely.

In my opinion, we're in effectively 10th place, even though we've not always played well, with a team made up of those who we couldn't get rid of, those who'd hardly any first team experience, and those we managed to get in on loan.
The manager's getting a B+ from me so far.

You've got a much lower opinion of how talented our players are than i do.

If you think this isn't a strong squad for L1 and the level of performances are about right then fair play. But i think it's a strong squad and it's too often not doing itself justice.

 

[truelatic4eva]

I'm sure you see the contradictions in your post KDZ. Like Frank, you say you think we started with a strong squad, which is under performing, and yet we're in 13th (would be 9th).

With regard to the squad, we were left with: Amos, Hughes, Pearce, Kerr ... Adeeko, S Smith, Aasgard, McHugh, ... McManaman, Lang, Wyke, Magennis, Humphrys, Jones, Sze, Stones, .... take out the youngsters and a (self-admittedly rejuvenated) Jordan Jones, and I'm not sure the rest deserve your confidence. Of course, the manager has done well with (most of) his acquisitions, but the residue from last season was basically who we couldn't get rid of, or the youngsters no-one knew who we wisely got signed up on long term contracts.

I have to admit that our performances at times have been a hard watch, though equally, they've (at times within games) been a joy, but looking at the league table, we've got to give the team and the manager credit for doing exactly what's been asked of them this season.

So ... strong squad? - not sure I agree. Underperforming? - as q spectacle, maybe .... underperforming as a league position? - definitely not.

Keep it brief ffs.....you're not writing for thugby post now.

 

[moonay]

You've got a much lower opinion of how talented our players are than i do.

If you think this isn't a strong squad for L1 and the level of performances are about right then fair play. But i think it's a strong squad and it's too often not doing itself justice.

No, you're missing the point. Your initial comment was about your view at the start of the season. We didn't know how the loanees would fare, and the bulk of those who remained from last season were older high earners who we couldn't shift.

I think it's a squad who could push for play offs, which is effectively where we are, but you write as if (adding the 8) we should be challenging for the auto places. Sorry mate, but I'm not with you on that.

 

[moonay]

Keep it brief ffs.....you're not writing for thugby post now.

My contributions have been short and sweet recently.

If you need help reading, we can look at turning the posts into an audio book ... though feck knows how Brick's stuff would come across !

 

[king_dezeeuw06]

Got to love how you take the pessimistic view rather than optimistic ... isn't it illogical to think it'll get worse rather than getting better and being more consistent?

I'm more optimistic about the caliber of player we currently have than you, but more pessimistic about if we've becoming more consistent or less over the last 6 months.

I think many of our better players wont be here next season unfortunately and that wont help.

 

[moonay]

I'm more optimistic about the caliber of player we currently have than you, but more pessimistic about if we've becoming more consistent or less over the last 6 months.

I think many of our better players wont be here next season unfortunately and that wont help.

Well obviously, all (most) of the loanees won't be here, but logic suggests the manager can replace them with players of equal talent and stature ... after all, he'll have this season's track record to show loaning clubs what he can do.

Other than Tickle and Hughes, who are you classing as "better players won't be here"?

I still struggle with the fact that you think the players are great, but blame their under-performance on the manager. The manager tells them how he wants them to play (keeping the ball etc) ... it's the players who give it away, pass to the opposition, don't offer themselves for a pass, make wrong decisions, put teammates under pressure, pass to the wrong foot, etc etc.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not slagging off our players ... just acknowledging what goes wrong, and putting blame where it lies ... and also being content for them to develop.