CDX_EIRE
Vital Football Legend
My only anti-british stand point is that Union Jack Im sorry guys but that is a mental image from my ancestors if you believe the science... I dont know why but I get a little but of anger seeing that flag and I blame it on the unsavoury past that seems to be burned into my soul before I was even born...
Other than that I hold no grudge against English, Scot, Welsh are very welcoming to us but I cant always say the same of my own nation... Just watch when we play you guys in even a friendly game of football or rugby we want to win no matter the cost...
As multicultural as the UK is America is stranger still, they have people from all corners of the globe and every walks of life but millions hate them... And its the same for you guys unfortunately maybe not to the same extent but there is some degree of it going on...
When you deal in other nations affairs for profit no matter how long ago it seems to never wash away... Its important to remember history but some things need to be forgotten the likes of Irish and English history being a key thing to banish to the past... It is pretty pathetic that even a small minority will come to a new land just to exploit the system and bash the hand that is feeding them...
The average English person is a decent human and while I would take the McClean route and not participate in the poppy day for example I wouldnt protest either... Live and let live too many people dont know the concept how does that celebration affect you? You dont have to participate...
G
Guest
Guest
A perfect and honest opinion there CDX of ingrained hatred towards British. Something Heath thought only exists in red top newspapers.
As for the poppy day thing with McClean, dont you look at it as respect for lost lives no matter what the cause?
I know immigrant families where parents teach their kids that Britain is bad, they in turn grow up with hatred ingrained into them. They are just victims of a messed up education system. You cant blame the parents because they too are messed up, its a vicious spiral passed on and on with not enough being done to break it.
There are no winners or losers, just a bunch of souls living out a story. The guys in WWII who lost lives were also just living that story. It could have been you, me, or McClean..Just because you, me and McClean were all born in different places and times what does that make each of us? Just lucky/unlucky? Like I said above, you cant hate kids for the soil they are born on - you can only hate the education system that they are fed which ensures how they live out their story of life.
Lets say you and McClean go as far to boo a poppy parade - this is an action ingrained through your eduction. You are both built that way. It isnt your or McClean's fault, you would just think it was the right thing to do. Yet how can it be wrong for those in the parade to respect the dead?
All the tears and hurt in the past - no sides, no winners, no losers - just a bunch of souls living a story. A guy in the IRA or Loyalist blowing up kids = just two souls living out a story, a shame for both and it could have been you, me or McClean - it just depends on the coin toss in pre birth.
As for the poppy day thing with McClean, dont you look at it as respect for lost lives no matter what the cause?
I know immigrant families where parents teach their kids that Britain is bad, they in turn grow up with hatred ingrained into them. They are just victims of a messed up education system. You cant blame the parents because they too are messed up, its a vicious spiral passed on and on with not enough being done to break it.
There are no winners or losers, just a bunch of souls living out a story. The guys in WWII who lost lives were also just living that story. It could have been you, me, or McClean..Just because you, me and McClean were all born in different places and times what does that make each of us? Just lucky/unlucky? Like I said above, you cant hate kids for the soil they are born on - you can only hate the education system that they are fed which ensures how they live out their story of life.
Lets say you and McClean go as far to boo a poppy parade - this is an action ingrained through your eduction. You are both built that way. It isnt your or McClean's fault, you would just think it was the right thing to do. Yet how can it be wrong for those in the parade to respect the dead?
All the tears and hurt in the past - no sides, no winners, no losers - just a bunch of souls living a story. A guy in the IRA or Loyalist blowing up kids = just two souls living out a story, a shame for both and it could have been you, me or McClean - it just depends on the coin toss in pre birth.
V
Villan Of The North
Guest
You are forgetting one important factor GT, personal choice/responsibility (if that's not two?) Kids may not be responsible but we have a choice to what we are educated to, informed about and attitudes toward as adults and imo a responsibility to not be bigots, which is what we are basically referring to.
HeathfieldRoad1874
Miserable Sod
and there was me thinking it was the Union Jack e hated, not the British people.
I can't believe I got that wrong. :153:
OnMeHeadFred
Vital Reserves Team
In actual fact GT is perfectly consistent with his previous assumption that country means a country's government, which he revealed when he quoted Kennedy's famous speech which basically meant, ask not what your government can do for you - ask what you can do for your government, which is actually lost in the rhetoric.
CDX is perfectly correct when he points out that it is perfectly possible to have absolutely no problem with a country's people but hate the country's political symbols of its imperialism and oppression.
This is easy enough to understand and in the example which CDX offers, in the instance of the Union Flag, we mainland British might have a rather sentimental and naive view of its meaning, but certainly the Unionists in Ulster find the symbolism of defeat and domination worthy of rioting over.
Equally it is perfectly understandable that a Muslim might hate the UK's foreign policy as regards Israel and the British government's enthusiasm for invading Muslim country's, while still having no problem with ordinary British people.
I think most British people do not feel personally responsible for the murders committed by whichever government happens to be in power, so if we can manage to separate ourselves from the government in that instance, it would seem logical that we can also separate ourselves from the government's foreign policy which we have no say in.
Ipso facto we establish that there is a difference between the actions of a country's government, which should be judged separately from that of country's citizens.
James06
Vital Football Legend
Great post above by OnMeHeadFred.
The problem is it is the people of the country that suffer the backlash of others hatred for the british government and it's past misdemeanors.
It's not uncommon for English people to suffer discrimination in neighbouring celtic countries, let alone further afield.
As for the non acknowledgement of poppy day, that is disgusting IMO. Every child in Britain should be taught about what people have sacrificed and should attend some sort of rememberance ceremony as compulsory. Then in adulthood, they may realise they have a duty to be thankful, and to show their thanks with pride. It's got fuck all to do with government policies, it's about brave innocent people who gave their lives for our freedom.
The problem is it is the people of the country that suffer the backlash of others hatred for the british government and it's past misdemeanors.
It's not uncommon for English people to suffer discrimination in neighbouring celtic countries, let alone further afield.
As for the non acknowledgement of poppy day, that is disgusting IMO. Every child in Britain should be taught about what people have sacrificed and should attend some sort of rememberance ceremony as compulsory. Then in adulthood, they may realise they have a duty to be thankful, and to show their thanks with pride. It's got fuck all to do with government policies, it's about brave innocent people who gave their lives for our freedom.
OnMeHeadFred
Vital Reserves Team
It is notable that the cross of St George overlays the others in the union flag, which suggests that England dominates the rest.
CDX_EIRE
Vital Football Legend
I know it might seem like a silly thing but when you learn your history and that flag is beside all the terrible things it doesnt help either... And of course unfortunately some continue to use the union (and others use the tri-colour) to elicit hatred...
Of course thats a different story ourselves and you guys get along great for the most part... Our cultures are much more closely related than these silly Americans anyway ha... MY sense of humour is lost sometimes I miss that to be honest... You dont get the same laughs with the Americans Banter and Craic are two almost aliens concepts to some of them...
