Immigration

#1
A poll published today, rather unsurprisingly, shows that the majority think the government must do more to reduce immigration:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/436538/Britain-is-overcrowded-and-we-want-Government-to-cut-immigration-says-public-majority

but not everyone thinks immigration is a bad thing:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/436538/Britain-is-overcrowded-and-we-want-Government-to-cut-immigration-says-public-majority

What do you all think, what are the limits and/or conditions to immigration and do we include all forms of immigrants in this or should there be different rules to how we treat social, economic migrants and refugees? Just how far does our morale responsibility go and how does this all relate to the EU and our membership there?

Here are a few thoughts of my own on this matter regards the more human side of things rather than pure statistical and financial matters:

http://idontquitefit.blogspot.no/2013/10/immigratation.html
 
G

Guest

Guest
#2
It dosnt work, it never has. If a country wants it's own identity, traditions, customs, culture etc then mixing it up with others dosnt work. It can only work if you take away the countries identity. When we see guys on British soil burning the British flag or boo'ing the poppy day parade, what are they actually doing? Are they against the people, the country, its traditions, its culture, its history? what is it actually against!
 
#3
So do we stop all immigration then?

If so, where do my children belong? Or is it case of living with what has happened but preventing all new instances of immigration?

How do you think cultures develop? What is your family back ground GT? Are you 100% ancient Briton and if so, where did they come from originally?

Surely it's better to control numbers by making certain demands of people, such that we only get the immigrants that are willing to put the effort in in order to establish a standard or quality of immigrant that will enrich and improve society rather than dragging it down.

Of course, the question then arises, who exactly is dragging society down? Is it the immigrants or is it the response of the "indigenous" population to the immigrants, not to mention our home grown low lives?

It's too complicated an issue to gloss over with the phrase, "it doesn't work"
 

BBJ

Vital Champions League
#4
England was a melting pot long before America.
It's not so much about people moving in (although there is an issue with the sheer numbers) as about having them to fit in - "when in Rome" and all that.
For example, six million English-born people have at least one Irish grandparent. Most of them are culturally English. They include a dozen assorted nephews and nieces of Mrs BBJ and myself. Some of them still retain strong contacts with Ireland. Others don't.
The problem now is that there are more than a few people living here who are just not prepared to fit in.
 

BodyButter

Vital Football Legend
#5
Green Tea - 14/10/2013 20:12

It dosnt work, it never has. If a country wants it's own identity, traditions, customs, culture etc then mixing it up with others dosnt work. It can only work if you take away the countries identity. When we see guys on British soil burning the British flag or boo'ing the poppy day parade, what are they actually doing? Are they against the people, the country, its traditions, its culture, its history? what is it actually against!
It worked alright for the Saxons and the Angles, the Romans, all those waves of Jewish immigrants, the World War 2 refugees and soldiers, millions of Irish, Scots and Welsh and the millions of other immigrants though the years.

England is a nation of immigrants, it always has been. Since the 1950s there have been waves of immigrants who are not white and that's a real problem for a lot of English people.
 

James06

Vital Football Legend
#6
I'm very much in favour of controlled immigration. The greatest places on earth thrive on a mixture of peoples, cultures, cuisines, pastimes etc... Arguably the greatest city on earth, New York, can put all of it's success down to the migration of peoples from all over the world.

Plus of course, without it I probably wouldn't have met my partner, and my two kids wouldn't be here.
 

Prepared

Vital Football Legend
#7
I was going to say the same as you James.

New York is my favourite place in the world (after my house with my family) and its the most diverse place ive ever seen.

I have no problem with immigrants.

I have a problem with lazy people that do not want to contribute, not all of them are immigrants!

 

thefacehead

Vital Football Hero
#8
BodyButter - 14/10/2013 12:44

Green Tea - 14/10/2013 20:12

It dosnt work, it never has. If a country wants it's own identity, traditions, customs, culture etc then mixing it up with others dosnt work. It can only work if you take away the countries identity. When we see guys on British soil burning the British flag or boo'ing the poppy day parade, what are they actually doing? Are they against the people, the country, its traditions, its culture, its history? what is it actually against!
It worked alright for the Saxons and the Angles, the Romans, all those waves of Jewish immigrants, the World War 2 refugees and soldiers, millions of Irish, Scots and Welsh and the millions of other immigrants though the years.

England is a nation of immigrants, it always has been. Since the 1950s there have been waves of immigrants who are not white and that's a real problem for a lot of English people.
:1: :1: :1: :1:

Well said BB.

The World is in constant change GT, some accept and embrace it, others complain and oppose it, you are entitled to your opinion of course, but it won't stop the ever changing face of society.
 

The Fear

A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
#9
We are all mongrels. I don't see the problem really. I wish some cultures would mix more but they don't and it doesn't really effect me so live and let live I say.

We are all the same silly species and as others have said, this country is and always has been a melting pot.
 

Nimmo

Vital Football Legend
#13
I have no problem at all with immigration, apart from when the immigrants have resentment for the country that is accepting them.

It seems a no-brainer for me that if you choose to move to another country, you should respect the culture and laws of that country.
 

astonion

Vital Squad Member
#14
There is nothing wrong with immigration, the problem is intergration. There are many people who have come into the country who will not make any effort at all, just wont even learn the language. The result is they live in ghettos which just keep on expanding, areas of Birmingham, Bradford and others have become non British. The result is because they can't speak the language they cannot get work therefore living solely on benefits. Thus causing the friction and the calls for a block on all immigration. That said there are many who have the opposite approach and want to contribute, want to be a part and are proud of their achievements. The problem is that they all get tarred with same brush. I have known many Brit/English who I would not want to even sit next to on a bus, and I have known many immigrants from different parts of the world who have become good friends. I am interested in the person not where they were born. Lets not forget in the late fifties early sixties we needed people to come to this country to fill the jobs, and they were welcomed. Also throughout the years the NHS has been dependent on doctors and nurses coming here from abroad. Just my opinion but lets not just look at the negatives, I think you will find the positives outweigh them.
 

HeathfieldRoad1874

Vital Football Legend
#15
I'm with those in favour of immigration, just with some control over it. Most of us are descended from Immigrants anyway.

There was another report published that showed that jobless EU migrants make up less than 5% of those claiming social benefits in most of the EU member states studied. It also showed a lower percentage of immigrants claimed benefits compared to UK born, and that they paid more Tax than they claim in benefits (i.e. a net profit).

http://ec.europa.eu/employment_social/empl_portal/facebook/20131014%20GHK%20study%20web_EU%20migration.pdf
 

OnMeHeadFred

Vital Reserves Team
#16
Like it or loath it, one thing is clear, no government is going to stop it or even regulate it properly.

For a start off too many parties have a vested interest in immigration.

Capitalists want to lower wages to make bigger profits and the Lefties want to build their multicultural Jerusalem in England's green and pleasant land.

When seemingly opposing political groups agree it is a good thing there ceases to be a powerful enough voice to change anything.

And once you understand that half a billion Europeans already have the right to live and work in the UK, a figure which is likely to increase, when 70 million Turks join the EC, resistance seems futile.

I notice that the media, following the government's lead, are making the debate exclusively about benefits, which excludes the quality of life issues which are the actual concerns of people, who find their community transformed due to the government's typical laissez-faire management of what is an unprecedented influx of immigrants, which without question has put a strain on social resources where immigrants have tended to concentrate.

No matter what politicians promise or what laws they pass, it can be guaranteed that they will never allocate enough resources to make the checks or enforce the law. It is just the latest election issue which the parties will pay lip service to but never do anything about.

So the electorate just have to accept immigration is going to continue at the present high levels and learn to live with consequences, whatever they happen to be.

Because in the end, this is an experiment without precedent and no one has any idea what affect this mass-migration is going to have on our culture or our way of life.

Whatever capitalism wants, capitalism gets.
 
G

Guest

Guest
#18
Villan Of The North - 14/10/2013 11:20

So do we stop all immigration then?

If so, where do my children belong? Or is it case of living with what has happened but preventing all new instances of immigration?

How do you think cultures develop? What is your family back ground GT? Are you 100% ancient Briton and if so, where did they come from originally?

Surely it's better to control numbers by making certain demands of people, such that we only get the immigrants that are willing to put the effort in in order to establish a standard or quality of immigrant that will enrich and improve society rather than dragging it down.

Of course, the question then arises, who exactly is dragging society down? Is it the immigrants or is it the response of the "indigenous" population to the immigrants, not to mention our home grown low lives?

It's too complicated an issue to gloss over with the phrase, "it doesn't work"
Well in a perfect world everyone would just unite and get along. But unfortunately the world dosnt work that way. Britain has allowed immigration of anti-British, people that do not respect the country, its history, its traditions, culture, customs. language etc. Have you gone to Norway to upset the apple cart? Do you burn the Norwegian flag, or refuse to learn the language, mix with the people, follow their laws?

I dont know the score regarding your kids, are they accepted, do they have to suffer any anti British remarks?
 

kefkat

Vital Football Legend
#19
Whether that we are all mongrels as we are and whatever you choose to believe you come from, whether it be the creator/nature/an atom/the sea we all come from the same beginning so we are all the same.

It is people attitudes that divide us. People don't look for the similarities, just the differences.

My Father's side came through from Spain to Holland and then into France then over to Suffolk. My Mo. Don't know where they started. The history I know is only in The U.K and The Midlands for the last 5-6 generations. Before that no idea.

As for immigration. The real issues is not immigration: It is the free movement in Europe and Asylum seekers. Not that I have any problem with them if they are genuine and not here to take more out of the country.

I know many and it is indeed a fact people coming here from Australia South Africa for example and wanting to do everything properly are really put through the mill. I know this because of an Australian friend here and my Sister in Law who is South African.

Not saying there is anything wrong with them being put through the mill, but the extremes of was ridiculous.

Then you get others who seem to walk in and get it all handed to them. Granted we only hear about those negative stories in the media. There is many who it isn't like that for. We do make it too easy for some. We have only to look at all the troubles we have had deporting some who loathe are country yet want to take all it offers
 

CDX_EIRE

Vital 1st Team Regular
#20
Ahhh a thread I can relate to... Well in Ireland some people are not tolerant about 'foreigners' (non native english speakers) coming to Ireland 'and taking our jobs and opportunities'...

Ridiculously stupid since 80m people around the world claim to be Irish... I would also argue nearly every single person in Ireland personally knows someone from Ireland living in Australia or England... Of them most would know at least one in each region plus the likes of me elsewhere...

At the tender age of 24 years and 46 days I know far more about the issue than most... I first left Ireland for work at the age of 21 as part of my degree I had to complete 7 months work experience... I studied construction mgt which is one of the best degrees for travelling I might add... Construction was and still is on its knees in Ireland so I went to glorious Birmingham (I actually had zero choice in this its either go where we send you or stay in Ireland and see what happens)... I sensed the adventure and of course would see more Villa so I left and completed my 7 months it was brilliant I love Birmingham I didnt want to leave but obviously had to...

Fast forward to 2012 Iv got a 1.1 top of my class had an interview in Ireland stupidly mentioned I want to travel and never heard back... Roll on 6 months on the dole before I finally go for the new government internship programme with cowboys... Here I work as a site engineer with a predominantly Polish, Romanian and other Eastern Euro guys... These guys are dead sound and work hard even if they are half retarded at times (literally had to spoon feed them everything)... Some Irish work for the company too and some do not the Euro's 'Taking work from the Irish' they say... I look at it quite differently in fact we couldnt get qualified Irish to do that job... Anybody who was actually any good worked for decent companies and rest had left the country...
People give out about these fellas but in some cases they are as qualified or better and all just want to work... I suppose you can say they are taking work but not from those qualified to do it...

6 months of that job I got sick of it it was a complete dead end so I quit and applied for a Visa to America which I received 6 or so weeks ago... I moved to NYC in September and I kick myself everyday for not doing it sooner... At the minute I do not have a job but I saved enough the money to keep me going til the end of November...
I got offered a job with a small company (naturally run by an Irish fella) doing what I want to assistant PM... He seems like a good guy and told me to do more interviews and come back depending on what you want... Irish people take care of each other over here and through some contacts I should have 2 maybe 3 other places with bigger companies... So Il be in a job next week and one way or the other it would seem...

---

So whats it like?
Well Iv never had to face any hate in England or America in fact I was told if I get any hate in America itl be from Irish who are there illegally or dont have a degree... Why? Because I can come and go as I please... One of those things in life that is annoying like I didnt deserve or earn everything it took to get here...

Being away from home is tough at times, Iv been close to tears but held them back... People often asked before I went to America if I was excited I said of course but really I wasnt... I was so worried about would happen and then my thoughts would go to fam and friends I might see anyone for a year or more...

The two times I was closest to tears was when I went to the toilet in the airport before my trip to NYC... My mom and dad brought me up and the mother naturally was crying then when I was walking out the toilet it hit me I wont see them for a while... The second was in Birmingham 11 of my friends came to visit but one of the girl who I got on so well with started to cry when they had to leave Bham and me... The same girl went to Australia for a year before I left for NYC... If I cant make it home for Xmas itl be nearly two years before I see her again...

Having said all that the experiences Iv got and will continue to get away from home will stand by me til I die... I will most likely never feel the regret my dad has he had the chance to go to Chicago when he was younger but didnt... He always regretted it and its a big reason for me leaving he has pushed me to not make that mistake...