I hate what the world is becoming | Page 18 | Vital Football

I hate what the world is becoming

I'll try and make this short lol I meant JK hadn't done her homework

The argument put forward as per the transcript is male is male, female is female. Little distinction between gender/sex as concepts. They are immutable facts and cannot change, despite they, themselves, being social constructs and DNA evidence showing it's not quite that black and white in reality.

A man is a man because he can spunk, a woman because of egg (it's all the baby making & you can recognise on sight when you see them) - that's her definition. Her own argument against 'trans' effectively falls down because despite the specifics of trans man/woman, she ignores her own baby criteria (if I understood properly) if a man is impotent/woman unable to have kids - but upon reassignement surgery (taking the recognise on sight out of it) the lack of function in that case counts and makes it wrong.

There seemed to be no recognition or place for DNA alternatives/hermaphrodites either in her belief system.

Short and curlies - it's her choice to say man/woman based on what she sees ONLY and any avoidable offence isn't her problem, but most of her arguments were about 'fear factor' dirty men pretending to be women to pray on young girls in public toilets and all that bollocks - despite claiming her belief was a man couldn't become a woman, it seems like that wasn't something she actually argued or explained.

-----

Para's 78/79 + 81, 91

The Claimant contends that the belief is “important” because it is necessary to
support her sense of self, her feminism and political activism, belief in the
importance of single sex services, support for single sex education, use of
women only changing rooms and showers, old-age care, family planning and
maternity services, upbringing of children, women only services for the
vulnerable and her political online activism. In her evidence, she focused
particularly her contention that it is important that there can be some spaces
where particularly vulnerable women and girls, who have been subject to
sexual assault by men, are only open to women assigned female at birth. I
consider that on a proper analysis these are reasons why she considers that
her belief in the immutability of sex is important, rather than the belief itself.

Many of concerns that the Claimant has, such as ensuring protection of
vulnerable women, do not, in fact, rest on holding a belief that biological sex is
immutable. It is quite possible to accept that transwomen are women but still
argue that there are certain circumstances in which it would be justified to
exclude certain trans women from spaces that are generally only open to
women assigned female at birth because of trauma suffered by users of the
space who have been subject to sexual assault. This may be lawful under EqA
where it is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.

Many of the illustrations the Claimant relies on do not, in fact, rely on the belief that men can never become women; but on the analysis that there may be
limited circumstances in which it is relevant that a person is a trans woman or
trans man, such as when ensuring appropriate medical care is provided, which
takes proper account of trans status."

I do not accept that this analysis is undermined by the decision of the Supreme
Court in Lee v Ashers that persons should not be compelled to express a
message with which they profoundly disagreed unless justification is shown.
The Claimant could generally avoid the huge offense caused by calling a trans
woman a man without having to refer to her as a woman, as it is often not
necessary to refer to a person sex at all. However, where it is, I consider
requiring the Claimant to refer to a trans woman as a woman is justified to
avoid harassment of that person. Similarly, I do not accept that there is a failure
to engage with the importance of the Claimant’s qualified right to freedom of
expression, as it is legitimate to exclude a belief that necessarily harms the rights of others through refusal to accept the full effect of a Gender Recognition
Certificate or causing harassment to trans women by insisting they are men
and trans men by insisting they are women. The human rights balancing
exercise goes against the Claimant because of the absolutist approach she
adopts.
-----

Now she doesn't do this - but if you extrapolate that out, IF she had won, there would be legal argument for:

Defining someone's race/beliefs by skin colour.
All bald people with tattoo's must be Nazi's.
All Muslims are terrorists.
etc etc just because it's YOUR opinion.

I know that's going a little bit extreme, but JK's line here I guess is 'you can't force me what to think, she shouldn't lose her job when there's religious protection etc etc' As said, she didn't do her homework and fell for the headline and not the substance.

In my humble of course.

Well that was a bit of a read! lol

I see where you're coming from (I think lol)

Obviously things are not that black and white I agree, but I think some people are just running amok with the idea.

I've been in an argument before when it comes to giving birth (ie women can give birth, men can't) and I was told "what if a woman is unable to give birth, does that make her any less of a woman?" (or something along those lines) to which I said no, she's a real woman who can't give birth and it's a low percentage.

Hermaphrodite's are another thing, something like 0.05% of the population. I saw a cat with 2 faces the other day, literally. I don't mean to be cruel, but there anomalies of nature.

In my opinion trans people are trans people, and I don't see what's wrong with saying that.
 
lol

The entrenching is pulling the LBT????? movement apart as people go to the extremes and its counter productive. In an effort to avoid labels, we're now arguing about the new ones!?

I get your Hemph comment, but the fact they exist means they exist. The DNA angle was new on me though, but I'm too tired to read into that tonight.

But yup, it's the element of wilful harm - she seemed oblivious/didn't care about harm at the extremes as she simply wanted to justify herself without actually arguing a justification (outside of pervy men it seems) for that belief.

By all means hold it, but keeping your mouth shut is often a virtue.

And yes, having read a few Twitter threads, the old 'freedom of speech' brigade are outraged at this total misuse of the law and are demanding change and explaining how the law should work. :halo::help:
 
The thing about the LGBTQ community is that they don't speak for all gays, trans etc. There are plenty that want nothing to do with them as a movement and it's sometimes easy to forget that.

As a movement they need to learn that the world doesn't revolve around their feelings.

And yes, as for hermaphrodites, of course, as I said, I didn't mean to be malicious or anything, it's just such a small percentage that they shouldn't be used to justify an argument about something else ie. transgender people. They are not trans anything and exist independently.

But I agree, keeping the trap shut is often a virtue and should apply to absolutely everyone! lol
 
Yup, it's like the ERG speaking for the Tories or Momentum for Labour - it's a subsection interested in themselves rather than the broader picture. As usual though it's the smallest that shout loudest.

Again re offence and feelings, there's a difference between accidental insult and deliberate, but that line seems to have been forgotten with a presumption of freedom to insult without effect and then a presumption of taking offence even when there really wasn't any.

And no mate totally got you, was more a ill timed barb at the 'I'll go with the science crowd' responses I saw on social media who were that dismissive without realising science learns on a daily basis - hence the newer (to me at least) DNA elements (far past simple herma) known about oddities.

But again yes, I don't see the problem in accepting women and then trans women or men for what they are and what they are comfortable as. I know this is crude (and someone will take offence somewhere lol) but all cars aren't cars, there are differences but it's the same function/life so to speak.

You can accept the differences without the difference being an insult or derogatory or a denial of right to me.

Be nice, if you can't, shut up if there's not a real reason to speak. Not a bad tenet to live life by really.

(although in fairness posting on here, not something I've necessarily learned PMSL)
 
lol, cars make a good analogy, I was going to say earlier that you can't paint a Ford Fiesta red and say it's a Ferrari.

I will use that in future debates about transgender people, and I'm sure no one will be offended in the slightest.

And this is why keeping ones mouth shut can be a virtue!
 
That top line there is exactly what I meant but struggled to say or possibly convey.

Pretending a Ford Anglia is a Zonda is pointless, accepting they are both cars is a reality. And humans, like cars - well beauty is in the eye of the beholder and some cars will always be out of reach unless it involves a lottery win. But it doesn't mean the cars that are within reach are somehow inferior.

Might be time for me to go to bed, I think I'm now overthinking this. I'll be painting monkeys next.

lol I'd love to see that chat play out - might try it with my kids tomorrow if they won't do the washing up and see them quickly explode.

Ultimately though, for me, this is the social media effect - for all the good, I half wish it was banned. I'll mention football to make it relevant - bitch about a players performance, but the number that tag the player in to make 'them' important as they bitch astounds me.
 
Yep, it's all a bit head wrecking.

Totally agree about social media, it's a scourge. There's an awful lot of people talking utter shite that have far too many followers.

I think I'm just going to watch videos of kittens on Youtube for the rest of the night!
 
200.webp
 
Yep, it's all a bit head wrecking.

Totally agree about social media, it's a scourge. There's an awful lot of people talking utter shite that have far too many followers.

I think I'm just going to watch videos of kittens on Youtube for the rest of the night!

It's the way forward.
I have been watching videos of pussies all night as well.
Cheered me up no end.