Homegrown Squad Rules | Page 3 | Vital Football

Homegrown Squad Rules

FA Rules Squad;
Homegrown; 7 - (Forster, Austin, Davies, Spence, Sessegnon, Skipp, Kane)
Foreign; 15 [2 under limit] - (Lloris, Romero, Sanchez, Dier, Lenglet, Royal, Doherty, Perisic, Hojbjerg, Bissouma, Bentacur, Son, Kulu, Moura, Richarlison)
Total; 22 [3 under the limit]
Under 21s; 1 - Sarr

UEFA Rules Squad;
Club trained; 3 - (Austin, Skipp, Kane)
Association trained; 3 (Forster, Spence, Sessegnon)
Foreign; 17 [equal the limit] - (Lloris, Romero, Sanchez, Dier, Lenglet, Davies, Royal, Doherty, Perisic, Hojbjerg, Bissouma, Bentacur, Sarr, Son, Kulu, Moura, Richarlison)
Total; 23 [2 under the limit]

Updating this as we have a much clearer view of what the squad will look like. I've removed Winks and Reguilion as it's clear they aren't in Conte's plans, and Gil and Tanganga as it seems that they will be moving on soon.

Most would agree that the gaps in the squad are in CB and in attack/attacking midfield but the UEFA squad is a bit restricted in terms of foreign trained players. Although Sarr could easily be dropped from that list to allow a more established player to allow included. Now that we have movement on the outs in the past week hopefully we wil see a few new brought in before the end of the month.

Also, can anybody help to clarify Doherty's status. From reading the rules I am under the impression that his time in Scotland when under 21 means that he didn't have enough time to qualify as English FA trained. But many websites seem to list him as homegrown. Anyone able to tell me what I'm missing please?
 
meee93 said:
FA Rules Squad;
Homegrown; 7 - (Forster, Austin, Davies, Spence, Sessegnon, Skipp, Kane)
Foreign; 15 [2 under limit] - (Lloris, Romero, Sanchez, Dier, Lenglet, Royal, Doherty, Perisic, Hojbjerg, Bissouma, Bentacur, Son, Kulu, Moura, Richarlison)
Total; 22 [3 under the limit]
Under 21s; 1 - Sarr

UEFA Rules Squad;
Club trained; 3 - (Austin, Skipp, Kane)
Association trained; 3 (Forster, Spence, Sessegnon)
Foreign; 17 [equal the limit] - (Lloris, Romero, Sanchez, Dier, Lenglet, Davies, Royal, Doherty, Perisic, Hojbjerg, Bissouma, Bentacur, Sarr, Son, Kulu, Moura, Richarlison)
Total; 23 [2 under the limit]

Updating this as we have a much clearer view of what the squad will look like. I've removed Winks and Reguilion as it's clear they aren't in Conte's plans, and Gil and Tanganga as it seems that they will be moving on soon.

Most would agree that the gaps in the squad are in CB and in attack/attacking midfield but the UEFA squad is a bit restricted in terms of foreign trained players. Although Sarr could easily be dropped from that list to allow a more established player to allow included. Now that we have movement on the outs in the past week hopefully we wil see a few new brought in before the end of the month.

Also, can anybody help to clarify Doherty's status. From reading the rules I am under the impression that his time in Scotland when under 21 means that he didn't have enough time to qualify as English FA trained. But many websites seem to list him as homegrown. Anyone able to tell me what I'm missing please?
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His status is homegrown in the PL but unfortunately due to his earlier training in Scotland he doesn't qualify as homegrown in Europe.
 
steveperryman said:
His status is homegrown in the PL but unfortunately due to his earlier training in Scotland he doesn't qualify as homegrown in Europe.
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I'm not so sure that that is it as the FAs rule is for players to train at English or Welsh clubs so Scotland doesn't come in to it. That's why Teirney gets counted as foreign for Arsenal
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1567075144719376384

So UEFA have very kindly decided to move the goalposts after the transfer window shut...But it is a logical change in the rules. The good news is that now Ben Davies is counted as homegrown for all competitions but I wonder if this would have allowed Rodon to stay as he too would be homegrown.

This means that both Sarr and Gil can be included in the UEFA squad
 
meee93 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1567075144719376384

So UEFA have very kindly decided to move the goalposts after the transfer window shut...But it is a logical change in the rules. The good news is that now Ben Davies is counted as homegrown for all competitions but I wonder if this would have allowed Rodon to stay as he too would be homegrown.

This means that both Sarr and Gil can be included in the UEFA squad
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Hoorah, some common sense at last!
 
meee93 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1567075144719376384

So UEFA have very kindly decided to move the goalposts after the transfer window shut...But it is a logical change in the rules. The good news is that now Ben Davies is counted as homegrown for all competitions but I wonder if this would have allowed Rodon to stay as he too would be homegrown.

This means that both Sarr and Gil can be included in the UEFA squad
Click to expand...

This is a big win for the UK. UEFA had to soften their stance before their actual decision rights were challenged in other ways. Davies and others have played their entire careers playing for clubs under the English FA.
 
So is this now the squad? (Copied and edited from Meee93)

FA Rules Squad;
Homegrown; 8 - (Forster, Austin, Davies, Tanganga, Spence, Sessegnon, Skipp, Kane)
Foreign; 16 [1 under limit] - (Lloris, Romero, Sanchez, Dier, Lenglet, Royal, Doherty, Perisic, Hojbjerg, Bissouma, Bentacur, Son, Kulu, Gil, Moura, Richarlison)
Total; 24 [1 under the limit]
Under 21s; 1 - Sarr

UEFA Rules Squad;
Club trained; 4 - (Austin, Tanganga, Skipp, Kane)
Association trained; 4 (Forster, Davies, Spence, Sessegnon)
Foreign; 17 [equal the limit] - (Lloris, Romero, Sanchez, Dier, Lenglet, Royal, Doherty, Perisic, Hojbjerg, Bissouma, Bentacur, Sarr, Son, Kulu, Moura, Gil, Richarlison)
Total; 25 [on the limit]
 
Updated for the 23/24 season.

Following the rule change both Davies and Rodon have the same status for UEFA competitions as domestic ones which makes it easier to track. But to make things really simple Spurs decided to go one step further and not qualify for Europe at all.
Dier still remains a foreign player.
Sarr and Udogie are under 21s for 1 last season. (for those interested Udogie would have been counted as a foreign player for UEFA competitions...)
I have taken the list of senior players based on the website Transfermarkt. As usual with pre season there will likely be a youth player or two who gets an appearance. But I've excluded them from the below as they will go in the under 21 group of which you can have as many as you wish.

Total - 30 (5 over the limit)
Homegrown; 11 - Forster, Whiteman, Austin, Rodon, Tanganga, Davies, Spence, Skipp, Sessegnon, Maddison, Kane
Foreign; 19 (2 over the limit) - Vicario, Lloris, Romero, Dier, Sanchez, Reguilion, Porro, Royal, Hojbjerg, Bentancur, NDombele, Bissouma, Lo Celso, Perisic, Solomon, Son, Gil, Kulu, Richarilson
Under 21; Udogie, Sarr

From the homegrown list, one of Whiteman or Austin would likely be excluded. Then you would imagine at least 2 of Rodon, Tanganga and Sessegnon will likely be moved on. So homegrown = 8.

From the foreign list, Lloris, Lo Celso, and NDombele are expected to go. Plus Sanchez is likely to go too. With there already being 7 foreign players who can cover the wide forward areas you would imagine at least one of Perisic or Gill will be gone. So foreign = 14.

Following the above 8 expected departures that leaves space for 3 new foreign players in the squad. At this stage Van De Ven looks certain to take one of those and the current rumours suggest that Lenglet will take another, leaving 1 final squad space up for grabs.
 
meee93 said:
Updated for the 23/24 season.

Following the rule change both Davies and Rodon have the same status for UEFA competitions as domestic ones which makes it easier to track. But to make things really simple Spurs decided to go one step further and not qualify for Europe at all.
Dier still remains a foreign player.
Sarr and Udogie are under 21s for 1 last season. (for those interested Udogie would have been counted as a foreign player for UEFA competitions...)
I have taken the list of senior players based on the website Transfermarkt. As usual with pre season there will likely be a youth player or two who gets an appearance. But I've excluded them from the below as they will go in the under 21 group of which you can have as many as you wish.

Total - 30 (5 over the limit)
Homegrown; 11 - Forster, Whiteman, Austin, Rodon, Tanganga, Davies, Spence, Skipp, Sessegnon, Maddison, Kane
Foreign; 19 (2 over the limit) - Vicario, Lloris, Romero, Dier, Sanchez, Reguilion, Porro, Royal, Hojbjerg, Bentancur, NDombele, Bissouma, Lo Celso, Perisic, Solomon, Son, Gil, Kulu, Richarilson
Under 21; Udogie, Sarr

From the homegrown list, one of Whiteman or Austin would likely be excluded. Then you would imagine at least 2 of Rodon, Tanganga and Sessegnon will likely be moved on. So homegrown = 8.

From the foreign list, Lloris, Lo Celso, and NDombele are expected to go. Plus Sanchez is likely to go too. With there already being 7 foreign players who can cover the wide forward areas you would imagine at least one of Perisic or Gill will be gone. So foreign = 14.

Following the above 8 expected departures that leaves space for 3 new foreign players in the squad. At this stage Van De Ven looks certain to take one of those and the current rumours suggest that Lenglet will take another, leaving 1 final squad space up for grabs.
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Great update. I'm still not happy that Dier is being penalised in this system. You'd think there would be a way for him to be "naturalised" at this point based on his international appearances, tenure in the English leagues and parents / grandparents. How dare football governing bodies tell him he's not English.
 
muttley said:
Great update. I'm still not happy that Dier is being penalised in this system. You'd think there would be a way for him to be "naturalised" at this point based on his international appearances, tenure in the English leagues and parents / grandparents. How dare football governing bodies tell him he's not English.
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You can't get much more English than being born in Cheltenham!
 
Outs; Kane and Rodon(loan)
Ins; Van De Ven, Veliz, Phillips

Total - 29 (4 over the limit)
Homegrown; 9 - Forster, Whiteman, Austin, Tanganga, Davies, Spence, Skipp, Sessegnon, Maddison
Foreign; 20 (3 over the limit) - Vicario, Lloris, Romero, Van De Ven, Dier, Sanchez, Reguilion, Porro, Royal, Hojbjerg, Bentancur, NDombele, Bissouma, Lo Celso, Perisic, Solomon, Son, Gil, Kulu, Richarilson
Under 21; Philips, Udogie, Sarr, Veliz

The homegrown list; I would guess that Whiteman will be excluded based on him being out injured currently. Sessegnon won't be moved on as he's had to have surgery. Davies has had so much game time in pre season so I can't see him leaving. Let's hope Inter's interest in Tanganga comes through. And the same with Spence and Forrest as Ange doesn't seem at all interested in him. That would take the homegrown down to 6.

The foreign list; Gill's injury will mean any outwards move is unlikely. Given the somewhat surprising form of Perisic and Lo Celso in pre season it's difficult to see either moving now. Lloris is still here but expected to leave (no idea what is happening there) and we are likely begging anyone to take Ndombele and Sanchez off of our hands. If we manage to do so it would reduce our foreign list to the limit of 17.

Future business; We still are short of a forward and I would like to see a new CB added too. Its difficult to see how we would find space in the squad for a foreign CB unless there is a surprise based upon preseason selections. For forwards, Orban is counted as under 21 this season so he would take a free spot in the squad. But that will become a potential issue next season as him, Udogie and Sarr will no longer be under 21s. The homegrown list will be an issue next season also as you wouldn't be surprised if the keepers, Skipp and Maddison are the only ones to stay which is likely why we continue to be linked with the likes of Gallagher, Eze and Johnson.

Ange will need to make some big calls if he wants to bring a few more players in
 
Updating this now that the window is closed. It's worth highlighting that I had missed White turning 21 last season which means he would have needed to be named. But he has gone to Stevenage so that's another club trained player out.

Outs; Tanganga, Spence, Reguilion
Ins; Johnson

Total - 27 (2 over the limit)
Homegrown; 8 - Forster, Whiteman, Austin, Davies, Skipp, Sessegnon, Maddison, Johnson
Foreign; 19 (2 over the limit) - Vicario, Lloris, Romero, Van De Ven, Dier, Sanchez, Porro, Royal, Hojbjerg, Bentancur, NDombele, Bissouma, Lo Celso, Perisic, Solomon, Son, Gil, Kulu, Richarilson
Under 21; Philips, Udogie, Sarr, Veliz

2 players from the foreign list will miss out on being named in the selection. From the above list the obvious choices are Lloris and Ndombele.

This means frustratingly that Dier and Sanchez survived. I do wish the club would have been more cut throat and recruited the replacements and told them that they would not be named. Instead we have told them they that are free to go but we will still play them if they decide not to go. I thought we had moved to a more ruthless approach over the last few seasons but sadly we didn't go that extra step this time. The positive is that both are 'only' back ups and there's only 1 more season left on their deals. Fingers crossed VDV and Romero stay fit and suspension free

Looking further ahead, next summer we will have more freedom to make moves with contracts of Lloris, Sanchez, Dier and Perisic all ending. Sadly it feels like we will have another transition season now until we can fill the gaps in the squad.

We were successful at moving on many of the club trained players. This could potentially become an issue if we qualify for Europe next season as we only have 3 club trained players when 4 are required in order to name a full squad. 2 of the 3 are youth goalkeepers who likely both won't be here. So it begs the question, which rising star from.the academy is going to step forward and take the chance?
 
meee93 said:
Updating this now that the window is closed. It's worth highlighting that I had missed White turning 21 last season which means he would have needed to be named. But he has gone to Stevenage so that's another club trained player out.

Outs; Tanganga, Spence, Reguilion
Ins; Johnson

Total - 27 (2 over the limit)
Homegrown; 8 - Forster, Whiteman, Austin, Davies, Skipp, Sessegnon, Maddison, Johnson
Foreign; 19 (2 over the limit) - Vicario, Lloris, Romero, Van De Ven, Dier, Sanchez, Porro, Royal, Hojbjerg, Bentancur, NDombele, Bissouma, Lo Celso, Perisic, Solomon, Son, Gil, Kulu, Richarilson
Under 21; Philips, Udogie, Sarr, Veliz

2 players from the foreign list will miss out on being named in the selection. From the above list the obvious choices are Lloris and Ndombele.

This means frustratingly that Dier and Sanchez survived. I do wish the club would have been more cut throat and recruited the replacements and told them that they would not be named. Instead we have told them they that are free to go but we will still play them if they decide not to go. I thought we had moved to a more ruthless approach over the last few seasons but sadly we didn't go that extra step this time. The positive is that both are 'only' back ups and there's only 1 more season left on their deals. Fingers crossed VDV and Romero stay fit and suspension free

Looking further ahead, next summer we will have more freedom to make moves with contracts of Lloris, Sanchez, Dier and Perisic all ending. Sadly it feels like we will have another transition season now until we can fill the gaps in the squad.

We were successful at moving on many of the club trained players. This could potentially become an issue if we qualify for Europe next season as we only have 3 club trained players when 4 are required in order to name a full squad. 2 of the 3 are youth goalkeepers who likely both won't be here. So it begs the question, which rising star from.the academy is going to step forward and take the chance?
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Thanks Meee - I was hoping you would give us an update.

The net, net is that we have 29 players that would want to play in the league and FA Cup. We all know that isn't going to happen. It is too many.

I guess we now have to sit tight for a week and see what happens with Turkey and Saudi. I'm also wondering whether there could be a contractual separation agreement with a player or two.
 
muttley said:
Thanks Meee - I was hoping you would give us an update.

The net, net is that we have 29 players that would want to play in the league and FA Cup. We all know that isn't going to happen. It is too many.

I guess we now have to sit tight for a week and see what happens with Turkey and Saudi. I'm also wondering whether there could be a contractual separation agreement with a player or two.
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Hugo?
 
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