Great Expectations | Page 2 | Vital Football

Great Expectations

Where will Wigan finish?

  • Promoted automatically

    Votes: 1 2.2%

  • Play offs

    Votes: 10 22.2%

  • Mid table

    Votes: 25 55.6%

  • Bottom half, avoiding relegation

    Votes: 8 17.8%

  • Relegated

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • Total voters
    45
  • Poll closed .
All depends how many more we get shut of to keep costs down for the Wigan Sporting Company. Saying that we could stay up.
 
GSM said:
Hope we have a nice positive start, hopefully pick up 4 wins in 6 and have points on the board and fire in the belly. Be nice if we looked like we give a shit in any of the cups and get a nice day out somewhere, take 6 points off Bolton, smash and grab a win at somewhere like Derby or Portsmouth, string a run together that briefly gets us all giddy that if the stars aligned we could snatch 6th, but end up comfortably in 14th never having to look over our shoulders, solvent and existing and ready to smash the shit out of League 1 in 24/25.
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Not an easy start and players leaching away like nutrients on a sand profile pitch.
 
batchwafc said:
I think i heard (Charlie Keegan on one of the podcasts iirc) that with the -8 we basically need 14th place form to even stay up - not checked if for myself so not 100% sure how true it is.

So i'd be happy to finish lower mid table.

But this is Latics. We'll probably win the play-offs
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Over the past 5 full seasons in League One (excluding the shortened 19/20 season) 14th place has averaged 58 points with an average finish of 11.5 points above 21st place.

We'd ideally want to surpass 50 points to safely avoid the drop so with the -8 factored in we'd ideally need at least 14-15 wins and an equal or greater number of draws.

That seems like a pretty reasonable target with the way our squad is trending, even if we lose someone like Whatmough later in the window.

Feel like we still would need a lot more to fall into place in terms of incomings and outgoings to realistically push for play-offs.
 
Who stays and goes between now and the window shutting could make a big difference.

The 8 point deduction will obviously have us in the relegation battle for the first few months, but in theory we should be too strong to stay down there.

Hopefully over the course of the season we'll be able to climb into mid table and creep towards the play off mix.

Ultimately the handicap of points deduction, lack of recruitment preperation and off field turmoil will probably keep us out of the top 6, but I'd hope we'd be in not that far away.
 
hindleymonwafc said:
In the theme of the thread title I think someone will Pip us to the title.
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that were wasted on these bunch of ilitertes on heer mate. mrs brick does like a clasic (insert own joke heer).

anywey. for me i think we ll be up there in the playofs. our shite weather. soft grounds. ponsified players and long cup runs (for the greedy top teems) will be a grate leveler for us.

-8 is only 2 lose and a draw. lots of teems will sufer these emabarasing stats agenst lower teems in the leage. weve only got to rember games like being 4 up against newcastle by half time. maloneys wonder goal against utd. beating arsenal agesnt the odds ect ect.

i fancy a day out in london next yeer i do.
 
DRAGNET said:
we need 3 or 4 seasons at this level to build a firm foundation. It wont be easy, fingers crossed.
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Not necessarily, you can build a strong foundation very quickly if you have a good coaching staff, an effective style of play and get your recruitment right.

Easier said than done but we lacked a combination of those things the last few time we won L1 and just effectively bought promotion. It got exposed badly as soon as we couldn't outspend everyone in the Championship. We didn't need more time in L1 before promotion we needed to do things differently all together if we wanted to go up and thrive like Sunderland did.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
Not necessarily, you can build a strong foundation very quickly if you have a good coaching staff, an effective style of play and get your recruitment right.

Easier said than done but we lacked a combination of those things the last few time we won L1 and just effectively bought promotion. It got exposed badly as soon as we couldn't outspend everyone in the Championship. We didn't need more time in L1 before promotion we needed to do things differently all together if we wanted to go up and thrive like Sunderland did.
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Not sure why people think spending 3-4 seasons in league one actually benefits. Some teams bounce straight back up and succeed at a higher level. Some teams struggle like us after being promoted in one season. The same applies to teams who spend 3-4 seasons in this league. It is like you say, it's all about how we prepare for this season, and for next season. I agree that having some thoughts on players for the long-term helps accomplish those goals. But staying in this league for 3-4 seasons compared to going back up only hinders a team. The extra money in the championship is just much more. Sadly we utilized our budget under Talal like a bunch of amateurs.

We ended up buying younger, better-quality players for so much less money this season in league one compared to last season in this league.
 
I think we'll struggle for the 1st few months of the season as the team adapts to a new formation.
The -8 could hold the team back physcologically and be a burden on them.
But with a few more outgoings/Incomings in January we'll push to midtable and possibly top 10.
 
FrancosLoveChild said:
Not sure why people think spending 3-4 seasons in league one actually benefits. Some teams bounce straight back up and succeed at a higher level. Some teams struggle like us after being promoted in one season. The same applies to teams who spend 3-4 seasons in this league. It is like you say, it's all about how we prepare for this season, and for next season. I agree that having some thoughts on players for the long-term helps accomplish those goals. But staying in this league for 3-4 seasons compared to going back up only hinders a team. The extra money in the championship is just much more. Sadly we utilized our budget under Talal like a bunch of amateurs.

We ended up buying younger, better-quality players for so much less money this season in league one compared to last season in this league.
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You could tell under Richardson that there was a high chance him as a coach, the players we were signing and the style of play were going to get exposed after promotion even when we were doing well in L1.

We had the best battlers at L1 level that could grind out results despite rarely playing well but hoof and hope (not even well drilled long ball) was never going to work in the Championship and we didn't evolve at all.

For the money spent we should've won L1 but at that cost we also should've had a team that was playing better stuff in L1 and far better equipped for Championship football.

I think Maloney has far more about him abd more vision about what is needed. It doesn't mean he'll definitely get it right and succeed but I think he's at least got the right ideas to start with rather than a very outdated approach.
 
king_dezeeuw06 said:
You could tell under Richardson that there was a high chance him as a coach, the players we were signing and the style of play were going to get exposed after promotion even when we were doing well in L1.

We had the best battlers at L1 level that could grind out results despite rarely playing well but hoof and hope (not even well drilled long ball) was never going to work in the Championship and we didn't evolve at all.

For the money spent we should've won L1 but at that cost we also should've had a team that was playing better stuff in L1 and far better equipped for Championship football.

I think Maloney has far more about him abd more vision about what is needed. It doesn't mean he'll definitely get it right and succeed but I think he's at least got the right ideas to start with rather than a very outdated approach.
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The most important thing about the last paragraph is that we simply cannot do what Whelan did when Roberto left, and that is completely stripping away all the work that has been done regarding our style of football, and our cleverness in the transfer window finding the right players. Obviously, this is far down the line as I hope to see Shaun here and thrive. But when that day comes, he moves on to other ventures. We can't just rip out all the work he has done in regard to our football philosophy and transfer policy. This is something the club should be focussing on to give us the best success IMO. Other clubs did the same, Brighton a brilliant example. Modernising our club, hopefully using Dansons data driven approach, is one way to bring us into 2023.
 
FrancosLoveChild said:
The most important thing about the last paragraph is that we simply cannot do what Whelan did when Roberto left, and that is completely stripping away all the work that has been done regarding our style of football, and our cleverness in the transfer window finding the right players. Obviously, this is far down the line as I hope to see Shaun here and thrive. But when that day comes, he moves on to other ventures. We can't just rip out all the work he has done in regard to our football philosophy and transfer policy. This is something the club should be focussing on to give us the best success IMO. Other clubs did the same, Brighton a brilliant example. Modernising our club, hopefully using Dansons data driven approach, is one way to bring us into 2023.
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I've said it before but appointing Coyle was one of the worst mistakes Whelan made in his time as owner.
I think even now we're still feeling the after affects.
 
It was more stupid than anything else appointing the ex Noblot manager although Coyle had previously worked wonders at Burnley.
However to strip the backbone of the squad from the fella then expect him to re-build a squad, challenge in the league and play in Europe was a big ask.
Also that same squad reached the play offs and an FA Cup semi final.
If Uwe had been appointed at the time Coyle was or if Martinez hadn't walked would either have got us promoted?
 
Yon Mon said:
I've said it before but appointing Coyle was one of the worst mistakes Whelan made in his time as owner.
I think even now we're still feeling the after affects.
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good job MiW dont post anymore cos he loved coyles tactics. thowt he were just misunderstood
 
jeffs right said:
It was more stupid than anything else appointing the ex Noblot manager although Coyle had previously worked wonders at Burnley.
However to strip the backbone of the squad from the fella then expect him to re-build a squad, challenge in the league and play in Europe was a big ask.
Also that same squad reached the play offs and an FA Cup semi final.
If Uwe had been appointed at the time Coyle was or if Martinez hadn't walked would either have got us promoted?
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I don't think it's a case of getting promoted straight away. It's more a case of bringing in someone with a similar philosophy of Martinez.
Whoever the manager had been he'd have had a lot on his plate that season. With the European campaign and eventual cup run.
But the season after wouldn't have been the disaster it was.
In the Prem we went from being a small club to a medium sized one. Even though we've regressed we're not as small as when Whelan took over.
I think we missed an opportunity to keep growing and now we'd be selling out the home stands.
All the young kids who grew up with us being a Prem club have grown up, even though some have stopped going most still turn up to games.
Eventually bringing their kids.
Those adults who stopped going would have carried on attending.
At worst we could have moved between the Prem and Championship but with the finances involved we'd have been set up financially for a good few years.
Leading to investment in the academy and maintenance on the ground.

What a poor appointment Coyle was and what it has cost us.
 
Yon Mon said:
I've said it before but appointing Coyle was one of the worst mistakes Whelan made in his time as owner.
I think even now we're still feeling the after affects.
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At the time I thought we should've gone for Poyet who was about to leave Brighton after they lost in the play offs.

I thought he was a good fit as he had success in the Championship, knew the league, was used to working with lots of different nationalities in the dressing room and played passing football.

Coyle can come accross very personable in interviews so I can see him winning Whelan round on his personality but he was stylistically never a good fit and probably shouldn't have ever been considered on that basis.

We were favourites to win the league that season and we had a strong squad but just had the wrong manager.

But it's not just Coyle, we're hired too many managers who were bad fits. Sometimes you might hire a good manager on paper, but it doesn't work as expected - it's unfortunate but you tried to maximiseyour chance if success. But if you hire someone bad on paper in the first place you're taking a high risk of it failing and too often we've gone for mad gambles rather than sensible options.
 
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