walgarthjohn
Vital 1st Team Regular
Keep Powell on and it was game over simple Plus any one apart from Vaughan cant hold a ball up to save his lifeGrigg slight knock and Powell was knackered,you know he very rarely manages 90 minutes!!
Keep Powell on and it was game over simple Plus any one apart from Vaughan cant hold a ball up to save his lifeGrigg slight knock and Powell was knackered,you know he very rarely manages 90 minutes!!
Keep Powell on and it was game over simple Plus any one apart from Vaughan cant hold a ball up to save his life
Might have but one pass from him and its game over Simple taking him off cost us bigPowell had stopped winning high balls and stopped pressing - he was knackered, he had already stopped offering what we was earlier in the game unforunately and wasn't going to offer much if he stayed on - his fitness just isn't there at the moment to boss the game like he did in the first half for the full 90.
Vaughan gives you 100% and is a true battler but he's certainly not big or strong enough to be the target man we need, i think the second Garner is ready will see Vaughan not even in the match day squads.
I can’t comment on whether he was any good at other points in the game, but there’s no way he changed his mind on the penalty to Forest. None whatsoever- there’s not a ref I’ve ever seen at any level do that let alone an EFL one. He didn’t handle it well & I know how it looks but I’m just trying to give an insight as to why it looked like it did rather than a partisan, he cheated us view point.
Similarly if I can look at it & my initial reaction is that Grigg might not have got to the ball then there’s every chance the ref thought that too. Doesn’t make us right, just that it’s a feasible view to take.
It has to be a denial of an obvious goal scoring opportunity and if there’s any doubt as to whether Grigg would have got the ball (& there is coz at least 2 people think so ?) then a ref can only give a caution. Like I said he may be wrong, but imo there’s enough distance for Grigg to travel & enough dip required on the cross to say for certain that Grigg would have got there. Hence for me it’s not an obvious goal scoring opportunity- had the ball been at Grigg’s feet when he was hauled back then it would have been a red
I can't recall our player doing that other than against City and especially not over complete con jobs last season. If someone can recall an instance when we made such a scene for an obvious non penalty then we shouldn't have - it's way over the line.
Might have but one pass from him and its game over Simple taking him off cost us big
There certainly was a difference in that it was a wild tackle that could have done serious injury to one of their team mates.There’s no difference at all Kenny it’s players surrounding the ref to try & influence their decision
In the City game it was our lot in order to get him to send a player off whilst yesterday it was Forest players trying to get him to given them an injury time penalty to salvage a point in a game they should have lost.
Also, people expecting Ben Watson not to appeal to the ref coz he played for us, scored the winning goal in a cup final & got a warm reception is ridiculous.
He plays for Forest. They’re his team mates now. They pay his wages now & no doubt they got a points bonus with that last minute equaliser - of course he’s going to appeal
As much as I admire your shameless bias towards Latics Kenny, I’m afraid you’re off the mark. It’s an entirely accurate comparison. It’s irrelevant that the two incidents are different. Both involved a referee making a decision before being surrounded by players of the team on the receiving end of said decision forcing the weak referee to change his mind.There certainly was a difference in that it was a wild tackle that could have done serious injury to one of their team mates.
Watson didn't just appeal to the ref, that would be OK, but the fact that he was the leader of such a vociferous bullying of the referee is what was not acceptable. Yes the referee should not have allowed himself to be influenced, but as others have said he showed from the first minute that he was a weak referee.
I recall a debate on here regarding Morsy and Cook constantly being in the face of the ref/4th official last season. Some called it passion, others said it was too far. That's why there's debate. I do think it was a penalty yesterday, but I would never be so dismissive as to say I don't see how anyone could disagree. It's about balance. You can't argue everything on one side, not everything Wigan is rosy and we don't sit atop the moral plinth. However, I've been wrong about things many a time.
My biggest concern (and probably Cook's), is with the part of the game that we can control, and leaving a trailing leg in the box when the ball has long gone past you is an error. It's not worth dropping a very good player and captain over, but it's an individual mistake that has cost us 3 points in the last minutes of the past 2 games. It's fine details and minor tweaks, but we're getting there
Mighty, I acknowledge your view on the second penalty. However given what had preceded it there is every chance he was influenced- plus the linesman never signaled for a penalty with the flag across his chest which convinces me even more. For what it's worth I thought it was live (not so sure on replay), but that isn't the issue, it's the process in which he awarded it.
Re the first both live and on replay I am convinced he would have reached the ball and had an effort on goal, dead centre eight yards out. Any question he may have tried to get the ball then the defender gets the benefit of the doubt. The fact he didn't as he pulls back the player removes that doubt. The fact he prevaricated for so long before reaching a decision on the card colour showed so much indecision. I respect your point of view but it was unquestionably a red card and he got the decision wrong.
Correct loads saying the same Didnt look un fit to me they were shit scared of him and we took him off Brought that useless donkey on who couldnt hold a ball up And for some reason we started playing hoof ball up to that point we had played some of the best football in yearsSo basically carry a player just in case he can make a pass? Really clever tactic that one John! Voluntarily playing with ten men,!
You are right, he does have loyalty to Forest now, but after the reception our fans gave him at various times during the game it was disrespectful of him to lead the referee harassment like he did.
He has definately gone down in my estimation, I always liked him even when he was being citicised by some, but I for one will not be clapping him again when we next play Forest or whichever team he plays for. Shame on you BW
Vaughan isn't a Championship standard player and certainly not a lonely striker.Powell had stopped winning high balls and stopped pressing - he was knackered, he had already stopped offering what we was earlier in the game unforunately and wasn't going to offer much if he stayed on - his fitness just isn't there at the moment to boss the game like he did in the first half for the full 90.
Vaughan gives you 100% and is a true battler but he's certainly not big or strong enough to be the target man we need, i think the second Garner is ready will see Vaughan not even in the match day squads.
There is always next game and it's Tuesday up the tics ?Sometimes I love football but most of the time I despise it. It's cruel and full of hatred. The long tentacles of this hatred seek me out and ultimately find me no matter where I am and ruin countless Saturday nights. There is no hiding place.
We did it against city in fa cup it's part of the game now roll on Tuesday ?Thought Ben Watson's behaviour was a disgrace, you accept there is absolutely no loyalty in football and i expected no favours but he was leading the harassment of the referee trying to deliberately con him at every turn his histrionics were embarrassing. He wasnt the only one trying to bully the ref but he was by far the most forceful and you know he didn't used to be like that. You know every team appeals for everything including ourselves but Forest were so cynically over the top it was Oscar worthy play acting - but it worked so maybe we need to stop respecting referee and get every outfield player surround the ref, get in his face and hysterically scream at him until we eventually get our way.
Cook respecting referees in his post match interview is very noble and classy in principle but this joke of a ref has robbed us twice in the last two game he has officiated us and to let him get away without a word being said again about such a poor / weak / biased whatever anyone wants to call his performance is something i disagree with. Cook doesnt have to go all Ben Watson and make a scene but i think he had every right to make a point about just how awful we had be treated by such a terrible ref.
I don't like to throw all the blame on a ref for a negative result as often we will be more than culpable in our own downfall and you accept its a hard job and sometimes you will make genuine mustakes. But yesterday was like having 2 different sets of rules for each team. That's the most angry I've been at a ref in a very long time.