ThreeSixes
Vital Football Hero
Talking of him - I think he has got a new job...
https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/authors/wayne-ankers/
Fascist Crap
- Thread starter Arthurly
- Start date
Talking of him - I think he has got a new job...
https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/authors/wayne-ankers/
jogills
Vital Football Hero
My wife taught at a Bradford Middle School for a number of years, largely Asian kids, lots of singing, girls football too enjoyed following them. Bradford IS British values.
jokerman
Vital Football Hero
Bradford's brilliant.
Surely as the country becomes more diverse, an attempt to say what we have in common and how we feel about it is just what is needed, and to introduce our children to this is appropriate. These are pretty basic practices of any society which most of the rest of the world takes for granted and are not embarrassed about. I think much of reaction against this is rooted in a deep-seated, but misplaced and outdated, confidence that no matter how much we laugh at or mock the idea of our country, that it, and all it makes possible, will always be here. I'm not so sure of that. All our favorite bugaboos -neo-liberal capitalism, the EU, socialism, clever comedians, the universities, -you name it, they've all been chipping away at it. I've played my part in that. Now, I can't help feel we're talking our way into wrecking something which by most reasonable standards is pretty good. Our MB, right here, is emblematic in this regard. It's not what we talk about. It's how we talk about it which leaves a heavy feeling.
I'll shut up and get back to my toast and marmalade in the living hell on this side of the pond.
Surely as the country becomes more diverse, an attempt to say what we have in common and how we feel about it is just what is needed, and to introduce our children to this is appropriate. These are pretty basic practices of any society which most of the rest of the world takes for granted and are not embarrassed about. I think much of reaction against this is rooted in a deep-seated, but misplaced and outdated, confidence that no matter how much we laugh at or mock the idea of our country, that it, and all it makes possible, will always be here. I'm not so sure of that. All our favorite bugaboos -neo-liberal capitalism, the EU, socialism, clever comedians, the universities, -you name it, they've all been chipping away at it. I've played my part in that. Now, I can't help feel we're talking our way into wrecking something which by most reasonable standards is pretty good. Our MB, right here, is emblematic in this regard. It's not what we talk about. It's how we talk about it which leaves a heavy feeling.
I'll shut up and get back to my toast and marmalade in the living hell on this side of the pond.
GillsBluenose
Vital Football Hero
Saying your nation is great or strong, and that you are proud of it, is not the same as saying it is the greatest or strongest.
Some composer came up with a tune called "Deutschland uber alles" in the past. Not sure what country that referred to and what the sentiment was there.
Some composer came up with a tune called "Deutschland uber alles" in the past. Not sure what country that referred to and what the sentiment was there.
valenciagill
Vital Football Hero
No one has yet explained why the song is fascist.
jokerman
Vital Football Hero
Precisely -strength can mean panzer divisions, but it can also mean moral strength and courage, over all can mean world domination, but it can also mean putting your country above other things.
shotshy
Vital Champions League
Yeah, but as Buddha has said, he knows people who actually hate the country that they live in, which begs the question, why do they choose to live here?
Some of the comments on various subjects in the Guardian tells me that there are quite a few who despise our country and everything about it.
What a strange thing, to choose to live in a country that you hate?
There was a comment today saying why don’t all the Brexiteers fuck off abroad so they can get their country back and stay part of the Eu.
Twisted logic?
Maybe he’s been asleep?
MedwayModernist
Vital Squad Member
You would do well to look up the paradox of tolerance
ThreeSixes
Vital Football Hero
No, I am aware of it and it is something that I have remarked on before. Should I be tolerant of the intolerant? I don't think so, but I become "intolerant"myself because of this.
The song - why is it fascist?
shotshy
Vital Champions League
Oh, the old intolerant of the intolerant routine.
Straight out of the James O’Brien playbook.
MedwayModernist
Vital Squad Member
The paradox essentially means that the only thing you can be justly intolerant of is intolerance.
For example, a racist might say- "muslims should be deported because they want to destroy western society"
Someone would rightly say - "you can't say that, that's racist"
Then vg would say - "look at you telling me what I can and can't say, you fascist".
For the song - I don't think it's fascist per se, but It's definitely nationalistic, it has the lines "Strong Britain, great nation" in it ffs.
If the government made it mandatory for the kids to sing it however, then that would definitely be fascist.
MedwayModernist
Vital Squad Member
Oh, the old intolerant of the intolerant routine.
Straight out of the James O’Brien playbook.
Q1 - what do you believe the James O'Brien playbook is ?
Q2 - what is wrong with it?
ThreeSixes
Vital Football Hero
So you don't think it is fascist but ridiculed VG for saying it isn't fascist?
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valenciagill
Vital Football Hero
Thanks for the mention xx
ThreeSixes
Vital Football Hero
Or alternatively there was a very intolerant religion - intolerant against women, against homosexuals, against other religions or non-believers for example. Should you be tolerant of their intolerant views (and become racist if they have different skin colour), or should you tolerate them, and therefore lead to a rise in intolerance?
Yes, a paradox indeed!
MedwayModernist
Vital Squad Member
Nope you shouldn't be tolerant of it, which is why I'm a not really a big fan of religion in general, as you could be describing pretty much every religion in existence that isn't buddhism there.
MedwayModernist
Vital Squad Member
I said it was fascist-y initially, which is pretty damn similar to nationalism in my view.
LancsGordoRoad
Vital Champions League
There`s nothing wrong with having pride in one`s nation. The strength of the song and the singers is that it`s illustrates that national pride is a colourless non-ethnicity based notion. What we have in common is that we all live here (or have lived here) and are proud to be a collective. If that`s nationalist then I don`t mind, especially if it encourages togetherness, solidifies us as a nation and helps to dilute division.
I welcome the intention behind the song. As a nation unified by a common citizenship we can be strong country and as such, be a useful and helpful neighbour to other nations. If that`s nationalistic, bring it on.
ThreeSixes
Vital Football Hero
Yes, you did say fascist-y
I suppose it is Arthurly and Buddha that should be explaining it to us.
I suppose it is Arthurly and Buddha that should be explaining it to us.
ThreeSixes
Vital Football Hero
Yes, I agree, pretty much every religion to some extent. Some more than others obviously
