Europe In Out Shake it all about

[BodyButter]

I’ve posted that myself but rightly been pulled up on having to follow the four freedoms. To me, that’s the most pragmatic approach whilst we are still in reality negotiating Brexit is to be in that style of system. The EU won’t let us negotiate any better than that so we’d stay in for a long time.

It’s quite hard to find details on it, but even little old landlocked Liechtenstein seem to have figured it out by working collaboratively with the EU on aspects such as collection of tax. We seem to want to cause a fight with most aspects of the negotiation.

Essentially we need a system that allows for free trade and services if that exists, and perhaps we need to agree a half way house for EU migration such as agree a quota. For the benefits that EU trade bring, I wouldn’t be against smaller payments into the bloc (as why would they give us that deal?) to get it over the line, but without rejoining to keep Brexiteers happy most of which won’t understand all the technicalities anyway.

The fight on most aspects of the negotiation is/was pure political pageantry by Boris.

 

[wittonite]

Essentially we need a system that allows for free trade and services if that exists, and perhaps we

This is the whole point of it for many of us. That is exactly what that duplicitous bastard Ted Heath told us we were going into. I voted for that, it was a great idea , only for him to admit that the ultimate aim was for a federal Europe ruled by Brussels.
That wasn't the vision that was sold.
More lying politicians,hang the lot of em off the lamposts.

 

[Pangloss]

The fight on most aspects of the negotiation is/was pure political pageantry by Boris.

Not just pageantry but also imaginary. I'm starting to wonder about Boris' mental health.

 

[The Fear]

Starmer is now facing opposition in his party after he said Labour would make Brexit work if they win the next election.

I'm divided on this. Should they seek to re-join the Union, or has that ship sailed, and do we need to make the most of a bad thing?

I think for now, we need to let it play out, see IF it can be made to work. Same as you, I didn't want to leave in the first place and if asked to vote, I'd vote to re-join. But with the division in the country, I think they should give it a damn good go first, and then those who voted leave might see why it wasn't a good idea - or (and wouldn't it be nice) those who voted remain see it wasn't the disaster we feared.

I'd give it a year or two then put it to the public

 

[wittonite]

"I'd give it a year or two then put it to the public"
The only problem with that is there is a hard core, together with tv media that are determined to overthrow it one way or another.
Its never going to get a fair chance.

 

[The Fear]

"I'd give it a year or two then put it to the public"
The only problem with that is there is a hard core, together with tv media that are determined to overthrow it one way or another.
Its never going to get a fair chance.

Not sure I agree, it was the media who made a 'star' of Farage and Johnson, and put up the 350m to the NHS stuff over and over. I guess a remainer could argue 'we' never stood a chance with so many lies being published.

Anyway............... time will tell.

 

[BodyButter]

I think for now, we need to let it play out, see IF it can be made to work. Same as you, I didn't want to leave in the first place and if asked to vote, I'd vote to re-join. But with the division in the country, I think they should give it a damn good go first, and then those who voted leave might see why it wasn't a good idea - or (and wouldn't it be nice) those who voted remain see it wasn't the disaster we feared.

I'd give it a year or two then put it to the public

I know what you mean. I think there will always be those who will claim that Brexit was a great idea but terribly implemented. However, I just can't see what possible upside there is or ever was. The longer it is dragged out, the more damaging the effects are going to be.

 

[The Fear]

I know what you mean. I think there will always be those who will claim that Brexit was a great idea but terribly implemented. However, I just can't see what possible upside there is or ever was. The longer it is dragged out, the more damaging the effects are going to be.

Yup... looks like I am contradicting myself, but I agree with you totally. However, I think it kind of needs to be proven to the population now, otherwise we re-join and the leave campaign re-starts.

 

[ironside]

There is a fair bit of chatter on Twitter about unrest by farmers in Italy and the Netherlands with big protests about restrictions imposed on them over farming methods and EU rules on use of fertiliser. It sounds fairly serious with violence and police involved. The situation in Sri Lanka is also supposed to be linked partly to their government’s crashing of the economy as a result of greening measures. I’ve seen nothing on our news outlets about this. Does anyone know anything about it?

 

[astonion2]

There is a fair bit of chatter on Twitter about unrest by farmers in Italy and the Netherlands with big protests about restrictions imposed on them over farming methods and EU rules on use of fertiliser. It sounds fairly serious with violence and police involved. The situation in Sri Lanka is also supposed to be linked partly to their government’s crashing of the economy as a result of greening measures. I’ve seen nothing on our news outlets about this. Does anyone know anything about it?

I have'nt seen much on our news but the EU are introducing more and more stringent measures on climate control and the Dutch Gov have said they have to go for zero carbon by 2030. The farmers are saying that it will result in a third of all farms going out of business. They are being supported by all the the farmers across the whole of the EU.
If you google Dutch Farmers there's lots of news about it.

 

[kefkat]

Not sure if I have replied on this and Keir, Brexit stance, so I'm responding for the first or second time which I'm sure someone will point out if I have replied before.

I don't like it as I'm a hard passionate remainer/rejoiner. However I understand Keir position on it.

Build closer ties with Europe, remove the smell of aftermath of populism. Then look towards rejoin in 10 years time.

It has to be done by baby steps

 

[danvilla2]

Not sure if I have replied on this and Keir, Brexit stance, so I'm responding for the first or second time which I'm sure someone will point out if I have replied before.

I don't like it as I'm a hard passionate remainer/rejoiner. However I understand Keir position on it.

Build closer ties with Europe, remove the smell of aftermath of populism. Then look towards rejoin in 10 years time.

It has to be done by baby steps

Only thing for me (as a willing-to-see-what-it-looks-like remainer), is if we do get into a constructive position with the EU with those baby steps you mention, we might one day be able to negotiate and have all the good things the EU has to offer; free trade of goods services, access to talent, alignment on relevant schemes such as climate control or safety standards, but not as a complete member.

Whilst that is a way down the road and might never happen as an outsider, where we are at the moment in the relationship is highly damaging and much like cutting off your own nose to spite your face.

 

[BodyButter]

There is a fair bit of chatter on Twitter about unrest by farmers in Italy and the Netherlands with big protests about restrictions imposed on them over farming methods and EU rules on use of fertiliser. It sounds fairly serious with violence and police involved. The situation in Sri Lanka is also supposed to be linked partly to their government’s crashing of the economy as a result of greening measures. I’ve seen nothing on our news outlets about this. Does anyone know anything about it?

The situation in Sri Lanka doesn't have anything to do with green measures. They dynasty ruling Sri Lanka decided to raid the country's foreign reserves because there was nothing else left to pillage. Now they don't have the US dollars to pay for oil shipments and basic necessities the people need

 

[ironside]

Thanks for the clarification BodyButter. I got a bit confused by the Sri Lankan journalist, interviewed on 5Live, who said that the decision of the regime to ban the use of fertilisers, resulting in food shortages, was a factor in the level of dissatisfaction. Obviously the causes that have led to rises in basics are more complex.

 

[BodyButter]

Thanks for the clarification BodyButter. I got a bit confused by the Sri Lankan journalist, interviewed on 5Live, who said that the decision of the regime to ban the use of fertilisers, resulting in food shortages, was a factor in the level of dissatisfaction. Obviously the causes that have led to rises in basics are more complex.

There is also a bit of western spin that their crisis has been caused by a Chinese debt trap but that's not quite the case either.

They couldn't afford fertilizers because they blew all of their foreign reserves. The green thing is just smoke.

 

[mike_field]

There is also a bit of western spin that their crisis has been caused by a Chinese debt trap but that's not quite the case either.

They couldn't afford fertilizers because they blew all of their foreign reserves. The green thing is just smoke.

Yes, it's been reasonably covered over here but it's a typical dynasty story fucking normal people over in the main from what I can tell. Is it actually wrong I thought that dickhead had such a small pool?

 

[BodyButter]

Yes, it's been reasonably covered over here but it's a typical dynasty story fucking normal people over in the main from what I can tell. Is it actually wrong I thought that dickhead had such a small pool?

I haven't seen his pool. I take it you weren't impressed?

 

[mike_field]

The Beeb carried a video of protesters bathing/diving in it and my quick estimate was at best 6/8 by 12/15, so tiny for a dictator.

Maybe he didn't need to compensate is the only defence I can give. If I wanted, it was a pool I could afford within 12 months if I stopped drinking and used mates rates with a builder I know.

 

[wittonite]

There is also a bit of western spin that their crisis has been caused by a Chinese debt trap but that's not quite the case either.

They couldn't afford fertilizers because they blew all of their foreign reserves. The green thing is just smoke.

Depends where you read. BBC online take on it is just poor business accumen by the government, choosing to stop exporting, there by starving itself of foreign currency.

 

[BodyButter]

Depends where you read. BBC online take on it is just poor business accumen by the government, choosing to stop exporting, there by starving itself of foreign currency.

They lost a lot of remittances because of the pandemic too.

I guess you could describe it as spectacularly poor business acumen.