EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’... | Page 83 | Vital Football

EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’...

The trouble is, it's not about striking a deal. The EU have their rules, which have been put into place through years of painstaking negotiations, and precisely because each country has their own interests, once they decide on those rules, they're set in stone. They have to be, otherwise the whole thing would collapse. The four freedoms, for example, are indivisible. If you start picking at one of them, the whole thing falls apart.

The British government still think they can get the EU representatives to bend the rules for a deal with them, but that's absolutely delusional. It's all about finding the way out that damages the UK least. There can be no compromise that leaves the UK in anything like as good a position as it is now, because anything else would jeopardise the very existence of the EU. Put simply, the EU cannot afford to compromise if it wants to continue to exist, and 27 out of 28 countries want it to.

The UK has thrown itself in with Putin and Trump in angling to destroy the European project. That's never going to go down well if you're looking to negotiate a smooth, amicable exit.

Come Valencia's glorious day next year, the UK, and that means all of us, will be right out on our arse. Some will like that, some will not, but there is no other outcome. Brexit means Brexit.
 
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markinkent said:
Its a really important subject which is why this thread is far longer than any Gills thread on a Gills message board.

If the politicians strike a decent deal then we can tolerate a bit financial instability in the currency and stock markets (although anyone who loses their job due to it might be a bit sore about it). However if it does turn out to be slightly less rosy that Boris and big Nige make out for an extended period of time then we all might be a bit sore about it - especially those Brits who have made lives in the EU if the EU aren't particularly nice on terms for GB nationals living in the EU (caveat nothing might change).

I am already looking at being a large sum down sorting out dual nationality for my kids so that they can remain EU citizens. I am lucky (they are lucky) in that they can do that. I am not taking away their choice options in the future but I would have spent that on something else as the bleeding ski holiday pop up adverts in the right pane keeps reminding me !!!

A bit sore yep and hoping it doesn't get worse than that. I am a bit too close to retirement to want to see a big stock market / economic crash.
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Fair comment Mark , I believe it is all seriously overhyped. I won't be treated differently in April , by my neighbours or the Spanish govt.
 
Alderman Barnes said:
The trouble is, it's not about striking a deal. The EU have their rules, which have been put into place through years of painstaking negotiations, and precisely because each country has their own interests, once they decide on those rules, they're set in stone. They have to be, otherwise the whole thing would collapse. The four freedoms, for example, are indivisible. If you start picking at one of them, the whole thing falls apart.

The British government still think they can get the EU representatives to bend the rules for a deal with them, but that's absolutely delusional. It's all about finding the way out that damages the UK least. There can be no compromise that leaves the UK in anything like as good a position as it is now, because anything else would jeopardise the very existence of the EU. Put simply, the EU cannot afford to compromise if it wants to continue to exist, and 27 out of 28 countries want it to.

The UK has thrown itself in with Putin and Trump in angling to destroy the European project. That's never going to go down well if you're looking to negotiate a smooth, amicable exit.

Come Valencia's glorious day next year, the UK, and that means all of us, will be right out on our arse. Some will like that, some will not, but there is no other outcome. Brexit means Brexit.
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Surely you and your family have the right to become citizens of the country that you have chosen to reside in for many years.
That always used to be the case, but maybe it's changed.

My Aunt & Uncle immigrated to Australia many years ago.
The children were all born in the UK but have chosen Australian citizenship, as has my Uncle.
My Aunt still retains her British citizenship and passport through choice.
Are you saying that this choice has been rescinded ?
 
Our Brexit friends are trawling Google for the latest but not sure if they're encouraged or put off by Bozza's latest utterings; just more confusion from the confused Brexiteers.
 
Surely the point is that Bojo has put forward a plan that is not supported by the party that is keeping the Tories in power ! Nice one Bojo.
 
Bojo needs kicking out of the Tory party. All he is trying to do is set himself up as the future leader. In the meantime he is merely acting as a rebel.
 
shotshy said:
Surely you and your family have the right to become citizens of the country that you have chosen to reside in for many years.
That always used to be the case, but maybe it's changed.

My Aunt & Uncle immigrated to Australia many years ago.
The children were all born in the UK but have chosen Australian citizenship, as has my Uncle.
My Aunt still retains her British citizenship and passport through choice.
Are you saying that this choice has been rescinded ?
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At the moment we do, but it's not the same in every EU country and it's quite likely to change very soon.

Cards on the table, I got German citizenship a few years ago for various reasons: one of these was annoyance at being disenfranchised - unable to vote in either the country where I pay my taxes, or in my own country, having been away too long after they changed the rules. Also there were practical, everyday bureaucratic reasons like getting a mobile phone contract. But also it was because I always had a feeling in the back of my mind that something like Brexit was going to happen.

There's no way I would ever have done it if I'd had to give up my British citizenship, and for many years, as far as I knew, dual citizenship wasn't allowed in Germany - as it still isn't in many European countries. It was only when I found out by accident on the internet that the rules had been changed that I decided to go for it. This was never advertised by the German government or media. As I say, I only found out by chance.

So as it stands, I'm all right,. The trouble is, the rest of my family aren't. And if I ever want to go back. that's a problem. I might not be able to bring my wife and daughter with me. Going to work in Germany in the 1990s wasn't like emigrating to Australia in the 1950s., which back then was as good as going to Mars. I went to Europe in the understanding of, and with the right of, free movement, as if I were moving to Scotland. I didn't expect that right to get snatched away from me.

Many of my younger British colleagues where I work aren't in as fortunate a position as me. They haven't been here long enough, or aren't married to Germans to qualify for citizenship. Because their livelihoods depend on free movement, they're buggered. Similarly, people in countries like Spain, where dual citizenship is strictly forbidden, haven't even the options I had.

Telling British people to get foreign citizenship if they don't like Brexit is tantamount to telling hundreds of thousands of people who just want to get on with their lives as before to stop being British.

The best thing is is that while most of us weren't even allowed to vote in the bloody referendum in the first place, we could have done if we were Australian.
 
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As I've said many times, Brexit was never thought out properly, in other words a fuck up, but Shotshy and his mates fell for it partly because they think the EU is corrupt and a failing union; plus, they think we can do much better elsewhere, although they never actually specify where but are more concerned about the spacing of lamp posts.
 
Well exactly. I've got nothing against Commonwealth citizens who live in the UK having a vote in General Elections, and I certainly have no complaints about not being able to vote in them myself.

But the one time when it really mattered to me, I wasn't allowed to vote, and neither were the other three million people most directly affected by it. You never know, it might have made a difference. But then we're all fifth columnists anyway, I suppose.

The whole thing was a cobbled-together fuck-up from start to finish. But there you go. It's The Will Of The People And Must Never, Ever Be Overturned.
 
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Quite ironic that a mixed group of Europeans working in harmony as a team managed to beat a much better group of Americans today. Amazing what can be achieved through teamwork and good leadership!
 
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