EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’... | Page 169 | Vital Football

EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’...

shotshy said:
A simple bit of research would have shown you that Greg Clark is a staunch Remainer
http://www.gregclark.org/local-news/gregs-view-on-the-eu-referendum/221

In fact he is the MP who represents the only Remain constituency in Kent.
But.. never let a simple fact get in the way of a WayneKerr rant.#gettingmoredullbytheday
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The point he and others, including me, have been making is that Brexit looks like it's less likely to happen by the day because Leavers can't agree on what form it should take. If May delays, then revoking Article 50 becomes more and more likely

We've had May's deal; a Norway-type arrangement, Canada ++ or a ludicrous no-deal. Then you have the likes of Farridge saying he just wants to deliver on the referendum but without at this stage specifying any divorce agreement.
 
shotshy said:
Mays deal or no deal.
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Did 17.4m vote for no deal? If not what type of deal did some/many of those 17.4m want? This should have been sorted before the vote to discover if it was achieveable. The vote was binary but its implementation isn't which is one of the major faults in the process.

Some far right loonies wanted no deal and said so eg Redwood. Fair enough, he said what he thought Brexit would be. At least he was honest and straight. He wants what is termed "creative chaos" (which he is wealthy enough to see out).

Iirc, the vast majority of Brexiteers were talking about leaving on the basis of getting a deal. They said they would get a great deal as we are such a fantastic country and the EU would come begging, discarding the principles of the EU along the way. Brexiteers were put in charge and f#cked up. Actually that's not fair on Davis. He didn't f#ck up because he did nothing as he is lazy and thick.

Our future prosperity or lack of it is now in question thanks to this utter shambles.

As for the Lexiteers on here, get real, we won't have the money to implent the policies we'd love to see.
 
I expected no deal when I voted.
I expected the UK to make full preparations for leaving the EU and after we had left, start negotiating some sort of trade agreement, should the EU wish to have full and free access to our market.

Remainer May has spent all of her time trying to tie up a deal when her time would have been better spent getting the country ready for Brexit.
Her governance has been disgraceful.

Corbyn would have triggered Art 50 immediately and by now, we would have been out.

As for your doom and gloom scenario after we have left, well, time will tell won't it?
You could be correct but more likely, you will be wrong as you have been on everything else.
 
shotshy said:
I expected no deal when I voted.
I expected the UK to make full preparations for leaving the EU and after we had left, start negotiating some sort of trade agreement, should the EU wish to have full and free access to our market.

Remainer May has spent all of her time trying to tie up a deal when her time would have been better spent getting the country ready for Brexit.
Her governance has been disgraceful.

Corbyn would have triggered Art 50 immediately and by now, we would have been out.

As for your doom and gloom scenario after we have left, well, time will tell won't it?
You could be correct but more likely, you will be wrong as you have been on everything else.
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Lol. "Wrong on every thing else". Where have I been wrong? Please enlighten me. On everything!!!!! Gosh I wish I was as clever as you.
 
When you voted and hoped for no deal, did you have any idea what the World Trade Terms were? I for one did not, and to be honest still don't. Do you? Please do not give me generalizations, just a couple of specific facts.
 
shotshy said:
I expected no deal when I voted.
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How come, when the referendum was advertised, sorting out a deal with the EU was a Brexit promise?
shotshy said:
I expected the UK to make full preparations for leaving the EU and after we had left, start negotiating some sort of trade agreement, should the EU wish to have full and free access to our market.
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But they were making plans! 'Some sort' of trade agreement!What in heck is some sort of agreement - it's either comprehensive or not at all. Start negotiating a trade AFTER we leave the EU!!!!!! What the fuck do we do in the intervening years? Supply and demand will determine access to our markets and, as a nation, we have far more to lose given how much we export to the EU and we're not going to offset any loss of business by turning to 'new' markets that no-one has yet identified. Markets that we were never prevented from trading with under favourable EU WTO terms.
shotshy said:
As for your doom and gloom scenario after we have left, well, time will tell won't it?
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And you're prepared to let probably millions suffer the effects of possible negative consequences of a no-deal; people who find it difficult to make ends meet week by week. It's not the wealthy that will suffer as pension and investment funds have already factored in Brexit [as Rees Mogg has done] but those on low incomes supplemented by benefits that will get squeezed as tax revenues fall.
 
Wayne.Kerr said:
An Englishman, a Scotsman and an Irishman walk into a bar. The Englishman wanted to go so they all had to leave.
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The Scotsman recently voted to accompany the Englishman in all he does, and the Irishman insists on staying loyal, even to the discomfort of the Englishman.
 
shotshy said:
I expected no deal when I voted.
I expected the UK to make full preparations for leaving the EU and after we had left, start negotiating some sort of trade agreement, should the EU wish to have full and free access to our market.

Corbyn would have triggered Art 50 immediately and by now, we would have been out..
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Unless I have misunderstood, whether it was Corbyn or May, the provisions of Article 50 include a prescribed notice period so I don't think we could ever have left earlier than next March.

Wayne says "How come, when the referendum was advertised, sorting out a deal with the EU was a Brexit promise?". As far as I am concerned that is the independent and mutually beneficial free trade deal with the EU that Shotshy refers to, without the current free movement and unfair burden of contributions. That is all we need.
 
Wayne.Kerr said:
It's not the wealthy that will suffer as pension and investment funds have already factored in Brexit [as Rees Mogg has done] but those on low incomes supplemented by benefits that will get squeezed as tax revenues fall.
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So only the wealthy end up drawing pensions?

If a free trade deal can not be agreed, not only will we save our contributions but the tariffs imposed on EU imports will go the exchequer. You will speculate that will not make up for any short term losses in tax revenues. Brexiteers will argue otherwise.
 
GillsBluenose said:
Wayne says "How come, when the referendum was advertised, sorting out a deal with the EU was a Brexit promise?". As far as I am concerned that is the independent and mutually beneficial free trade deal with the EU that Shotshy refers to, without the current free movement and unfair burden of contributions. That is all we need
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You've admitted yourself you don't know what a trade deal is thinking it was governments selling arms to each other. That beneficial trade deal would take yonks to negotiate and conclude but, of course, the EU wasn't going to give way on anything and why should they?
 
Gills 58 said:
So cake and eat it. They've said no. Are they bluffing? Davis claims so. Do you trust his judgement?
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Katya Adler pointed out a while ago that the EU have a history of leaving concessions to the eleventh hour.

They do not seem the most unlikely prospects if you want to call their bluff.
 
GillsBluenose said:
So only the wealthy end up drawing pensions?

If a free trade deal can not be agreed, not only will we save our contributions but the tariffs imposed on EU imports will go the exchequer. You will speculate that will not make up for any short term losses in tax revenues. Brexiteers will argue otherwise.
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The tariffs will go on the cost of goods we import; it will hit your pocket. Similarly, goods we export will be subject to tariffs and may become less attractive to our friends in the EU. Our net EU contributions would seem like chicken feed by comparison.

Take a look at this blog because it is helpful [and forget the six year old bit - everyone should read it].

https://tradebetablog.wordpress.com/2018/07/28/a-real-beginners-guide-to-tariffs-and-the-wto/
 
Wayne.Kerr said:
You've admitted yourself you don't know what a trade deal is thinking it was governments selling arms to each other. That beneficial trade deal would take yonks to negotiate and conclude but, of course, the EU wasn't going to give way on anything and why should they?
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I think that all I admitted was that I did not see why the lack of a trade deal between governments should stop Company A in UK trading with Company B in France as they have always done, apart from the fact that governments can impose additional import requirements and the dreaded tariffs.

Essentially, the bureaucracy and red tape that organisations like the EU promote and which keeps their additional wedge of civil servants on their gravy train. That is the reason why such deals take "yonks".

Incidentally, I can not recall referring to arms sales, just government service contracts generally.
 
GillsBluenose said:
So only the wealthy end up drawing pensions?
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Wealth is relative. I'm talking about those with private pensions - not necessarily rich but with a private and state pension not living hand to mouth either. What worries me about your comments is that you see a few words and then take them to mean something not quite the same as in your remark above.
 
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