EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’... | Page 167 | Vital Football

EU strategy to destroy the Chequers ‘agreement’...

The backstop is the big issue.
For as long as the backstop remains in place (and there is no guarantee when or if it will end) we are tied to the customs union.
We are tied to free movement of labour, it is still uncertain whether we will be allowed to make our own trade agreements with other counties. Effectively the EU will have control of what we do and when we do it, we will have no say or representation in any of the decision making process. we will be worse off than we are now.
 
Jerryattrick, because there is absolutely no logic as to what comes next. There are two aspects of the withdrawal agreement affecting Northern Ireland; the backstop which keeps the UK in the Customs Union temporarily and regulatory alignment between the EU and Northern Ireland. The aim is that the trade deal will end the need for the back stop. However, May's red lines will put us out of the Customs Union and the Single Market in the long term. Brexiteers will not accept regulatory alignment with the EU in the long term as it would make trade deals with the US more difficult. Consequently I can't see ANY trade deal that in the future will solve the Irish border issue. Does that answer your question ?
 
Apart from the backstop issue what exactly is wrong with the deal?

The deal is the worst of all possible worlds. Leavers hate it because it ties us into rules, man, and they don't know what they fucking want anyway, and remainers hate it because it's much, much worse than staying in on the current terms (which are incidentally more favourable and elastic for the UK than for any other EU member). It's a shitty compromise that nobody really wants, does nobody any good, and deserves to be sacked off immediately.

This compromise is political fluff, the EU bending over backwards to save Theresa May's incompetent government's wretched neck. When it comes down to it, the only choice is to remain completely in or get completely out, with all that that entails. Sooner or later, people are going to have to realise that those are the only two options.
 
And I think you will find that most people in Northern Ireland voted to remain and that the government doesn't give a shit about that, not least because it only survives on the say-so of the DUP headbangers. A hard border will trash the the Good Friday Agreement, open smuggling opportunities for sectarian terrorists and seriously bugger up the economy of the Republic of Ireland. Do you seriously think the EU will let that happen to one of its members just because we had a collective brainfart?

Think about it, rather than believing what the papers and the BBC tell you. It's us who are wrecking the house. Everyone else is just trying to contain the damage.

Your argument would carry more weight if you didn't have a vested interest in remaining, not that there is a problem with that but you will look at just one side of the debate rather than approach it with an open mind. Your referring to Politician's as Irish Headbangers, reference to trashing the good Friday agreement also don't help your case.
 
The backstop is the big issue.
For as long as the backstop remains in place (and there is no guarantee when or if it will end) we are tied to the customs union.
We are tied to free movement of labour, it is still uncertain whether we will be allowed to make our own trade agreements with other counties. Effectively the EU will have control of what we do and when we do it, we will have no say or representation in any of the decision making process. we will be worse off than we are now.
That's why we should remain.
 
The backstop is the big issue.
For as long as the backstop remains in place (and there is no guarantee when or if it will end) we are tied to the customs union.
We are tied to free movement of labour, it is still uncertain whether we will be allowed to make our own trade agreements with other counties. Effectively the EU will have control of what we do and when we do it, we will have no say or representation in any of the decision making process. we will be worse off than we are now.

Your argument would carry more weight if you didn't have a vested interest in remaining, not that there is a problem with that but you will look at just one side of the debate rather than approach it with an open mind. Your referring to Politician's as Irish Headbangers, reference to trashing the good Friday agreement also don't help your case.

The important thing to remember is that the backstop is not about us, it's about protecting the Republic of Ireland, an EU member. If we want to flush ourselves down the toilet, that's our business. They just want to make sure that we don't take the Irish down the pan with us.

Of course I've got a vested interest in remaining, but there's a difference between approaching things with an open mind and believing any old shit just because some people are allowed to say it. Some people say the earth is flat. The DUP are fucking headbangers by 21st century standards (or 18th century standards, for that matter) and I stand by that.
 
The important thing to remember is that the backstop is not about us, it's about protecting the Republic of Ireland, an EU member. If we want to flush ourselves down the toilet, that's our business. They just want to make sure that we don't take the Irish down the pan with us.

Of course I've got a vested interest in remaining, but there's a difference between approaching things with an open mind and believing any old shit just because some people are allowed to say it. Some people say the earth is flat. The DUP are fucking headbangers by 21st century standards (or 18th century standards, for that matter) and I stand by that.
Several of them are Creationists.
 
Jerryattrick, because there is absolutely no logic as to what comes next. There are two aspects of the withdrawal agreement affecting Northern Ireland; the backstop which keeps the UK in the Customs Union temporarily and regulatory alignment between the EU and Northern Ireland. The aim is that the trade deal will end the need for the back stop. However, May's red lines will put us out of the Customs Union and the Single Market in the long term. Brexiteers will not accept regulatory alignment with the EU in the long term as it would make trade deals with the US more difficult. Consequently I can't see ANY trade deal that in the future will solve the Irish border issue. Does that answer your question ?

That is not a problem with the deal as the arrangements are only aimed at taking us through the transition period.

The actual problem is that somebody has to then negotiate the ‘real future deal’ and both sides cannot be trusted even if they were capable.

Therefore unless parliament pass a new bill for a referendum and we then vote remain, we are still in the same position. as long as May gets something from the eu (no matter how small) then the numbers for any direction could be swayed e.g. what will MPs vote for if it means no brexit or another vote or a general election and facing losing their seat, etc, its all to play for.
If the 2nd vote was to remain of course then the country really is in turmoil as brexiteers work for a third vote lol.

This nothing to do with facts or economics, we are in the hands of self serving politicians and therefore once again, its the numbers.
 
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Blunt and hard Brexit , then let them come begging for access to our markets.
Time to grow a pair , me thinks.
Well they've obviously been desperately begging us so far, NOT. David Davis is still pretending that the EU will collapse at the 11th hour. "Thickest and laziest man in Parliament" and that quote comes form my Brwxit supporting eldest brother.
 
The EU is nice and cuddly compared to WTO Rules -


Moldova Grudge Could Cost U.K. Access to $1.7 Trillion Projects
By
Bryce Baschuk

  • U.K. denied visas to WTO delegate and her team last year
  • Now it’s blocking U.K. from bidding for WTO public contracts


The U.K.’s post-Brexit access to $1.7 trillion in public projects relies on the good will of its European neighbors. Too bad Moldova holds a grudge.

The tiny country wedged between Romania and Ukraine is joining half a dozen nations in blocking the U.K.’s re-entry to the World Trade Organization’s Government Procurement Agreement, an accord that smooths the bidding process on public contracts, including in the $837 billion U.S. market.

Why the hold-up? Corina Cojocaru, Moldova’s economic counselor to the WTO, and her team were denied entry to the U.K. last year when they wanted to discuss their future relationship with Britain after it leaves the European Union.

And Cojocaru has a good memory.

“I couldn’t get a visa and a diplomatic passport to go to London to negotiate on government procurement,” Cojocaru said in a telephone interview. “Nobody listened to us for six to seven months.”
Cojocaru later clarified that the London trip wasn’t taken in the context of negotiations on the GPA. The U.K. Home Office, which processes visa requests, didn’t immediately comment.
Diplomatic Slight

Brexit backers have wooed Britain with their vision of a buccaneering future as a global trading nation clinching new deals in markets that were previous closed off to them because of their membership in the 28-nation bloc. The reality may be that they’ll be held ransom by every country, like Moldova, that has suffered personal affronts.


For Cojocaru, the diplomatic slight is emblematic of a broader issue: If her delegation wasn’t able to get visas in a timely manner, how could Moldovan suppliers seeking to bid on projects in the U.K. be expected to compete with vendors from nations that have an easier time gaining entry?
To read more about U.K. efforts to gain entry to the GPA, click here
Moldova was joined by the U.S., New Zealand Japan, South Korea, Ukraine, and Israel in expressing concern that the U.K. application didn’t pass muster, according to officials familiar with the accession procedure. U.S. reticence was due to the U.K.’s failure to provide requested information and updates.
 
The bottom line is we have had two years or more.Which is not long when it comes to these sort of negotiations.But perhaps long enough to get firm plans in place.But from the very start there was the knowledge that their was a major problem with Northern Ireland.The Tory party itself and to a lesser degree perhaps Scotland.By definition for every area of the country to get what they wanted it would mean dividing up the United kingdom. Which in it's self is a total no no for the DUP .That alone means that anything that Mrs May or anyone else did was doomed to fail from the start.
Now we know more the election of a new government is almost certainly the only way forward .For the long term benefit of the country and perhaps the Tory party itself it is time they resigned themselves to opposition as they can't govern at home let alone manage perhaps the greatest challenge any government has faced since the war.
They had a vote this week which largely shows where the Conservative party are right now .The party is split two thirds in favour of the current leadership and share there belief in the way forward.A lot of the rest what to head in a totally different direction.It is even more complex than that I know .But given this government is a minority anyway and the facts of the Tory party at present they do not have enough support in the house to finish Brexit whichever way it pans out .A people's vote really is unlikely to help and could make matters worse still .
so for me there is no longer any other way .There is no choice .
We need a election and the sooner we get that the sooner we can move forward.
I deeply worry for the future direction but leaving things as they are is just not a option.
 
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It is somewhat a irony that the only leader who worked with another party and was willing to try to find another way was Nick Clegg. He was driven away from Westminster by those who couldn't stand anyone who would do anything for the country and would always stick to their tribal rules.
 
I see parts of Westminster were brought to a standstill yesterday, and pro Brexit protesters took to the streets. Some members of the TUC are also calling for a general strike if Brexit doesn't go ahead.
 
I see parts of Westminster were brought to a standstill yesterday, and pro Brexit protesters took to the streets. Some members of the TUC are also calling for a general strike if Brexit doesn't go ahead.
That shows why we must have a general election this country is pulling itself apart and would even more so with a people's vote.The current parliament doesn’t work at all .There is no certainty that the new parliament would. But at least now we know more and there is clear water between the general opinion with the parties.There maybe some who would split with their parties and that will be up to them.But it is clear that the Tories to get elected again would need to have a clear policy for the direction they wanted to go.Something they don't have at the moment.
 
Sadly I don't think that there is any chance that they will vote themselves out of a job. Not eeven sure if an election would make much difference as incredibly the Tories and Labour are fairly even in the polls. Could get the same stalemate.

A damaging f#ck up just because of an internal party dispute with ERG nutters and an incompetent Remain campaign failing to turn the tide on 40 years of an anti EU right wing media onslaught (Murdoch said he can't lobby the EU like he can he UK government).
 
That shows why we must have a general election this country is pulling itself apart and would even more so with a people's vote.The current parliament doesn’t work at all .There is no certainty that the new parliament would. But at least now we know more and there is clear water between the general opinion with the parties.There maybe some who would split with their parties and that will be up to them.But it is clear that the Tories to get elected again would need to have a clear policy for the direction they wanted to go.Something they don't have at the moment.

I think people will get fed up with voting though! In the last election, 85% voted for parties who's manifestos were for Brexit. I can't see that changing much? Depends where Labour are on Brexit now, maybe still getting piles sitting on the fence lol
 
I think people will get fed up with voting though! In the last election, 85% voted for parties who's manifestos were for Brexit. I can't see that changing much? Depends where Labour are on Brexit now, maybe still getting piles sitting on the fence lol
Unfortunately you could be right about election may sort nothing.Although generally the effective campaign will be the clearer one .At present there is a real vacuum of ideas as to a way forward.I agree the public probably don't want another vote .However the current numbers mean we are at stalemate. That is something that will only make Brexit worse whatever the final outcome.The smaller parties could yet have a big say.On current balance the party with the biggest say is the DUP. In some ways bigger than members of the government itself. That has to be a bad thing .For that reason alone I believe we have to have another election.
 
Unfortunately you could be right about election may sort nothing.Although generally the effective campaign will be the clearer one .At present there is a real vacuum of ideas as to a way forward.I agree the public probably don't want another vote .However the current numbers mean we are at stalemate. That is something that will only make Brexit worse whatever the final outcome.The smaller parties could yet have a big say.On current balance the party with the biggest say is the DUP. In some ways bigger than members of the government itself. That has to be a bad thing .For that reason alone I believe we have to have another election.

Toss a coin? Penalty shootout? I can't see an election before we leave or not leave in March, I see May as that stubborn. They'll need to be 2/3rds of parliament to hold and election, and many Tories want to keep their jobs for as long as they can!
 
Toss a coin? Penalty shootout? I can't see an election before we leave or not leave in March, I see May as that stubborn. They'll need to be 2/3rds of parliament to hold and election, and many Tories want to keep their jobs for as long as they can!
In many ways in think we agree.But for me it is up to the current government to put up or shut up.Deliver their policy or call a election so they can get a clearer mandate to do just that.
What everyone was agreed on was that the people wanted to bring power back to Westminster. Well Westminster is currently powerless to do anything.
 
It looks very much like May is just letting time run down now. There are no negotiations ongoing and none likely in the future. No reason why the MP's cannot have their meaningful vote next week but she'll just stall until around 20th of January and hope that she'll get her rotten deal through that hardly anyone wants - because they're scared of a no deal. She could invoke article 50 anytime but she won't.