#COVID19 | Page 719 | Vital Football

#COVID19

i am a tree said:
hmm tested positive.
Its weird though, i've barely had symptoms (just some achyness and prickles) and i feel better today than i did yesterday so maybe i'll get lucky.
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That's the worrying thing about this, no one knows how it will affect them. Back in March my daughters other-half was quite ill and off work for three weeks. My daughter is deemed to be vulnerable, but had no symptoms. When they brought out the antibody test, they had both had it. Both in their 30s.
 
Lienking said:
ITTO as I've said before I respect your opinion. The reason for what looks like jingoism on here from some of us is the response though to much of what is posted by other people . Mao said that vaccinating 137,000 people in the UK was "pathetic". The only way of proving that it isn't is by comparing us with other countries. Israel is doing better, but not many other Western countries are. There was also a lot of flak against BJ "failing" to join the EU purchasing scheme. It's early days, but I've still not seen anyone explain why the EU put their "stick together" ideology ahead of saving lives. Yes we COULD have used our approval system if we were still in the EU. Whether we WOULD have, and broken ranks with 27 countries is another matter. Also as a major member of the EU would political force have been used to purchase with the EU . Questions that just can't be answered of course.
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Yes, it is very tribal and there is a lot of speculation. But there was nothing preventing us from doing exactly what we did, which was the incorrect assertion that was rebutted.
137,000 (at the time) was a great start - all journeys start with the first step - but a drop in the ocean with respect to the task ahead. I'm sure we will be able to see the relative rates of vaccination in due course, but I'm not sure what that will tell us.
 
in_the_top_one said:
The good news is that you don't even need to be particularly lucky. Infections that become critical are a small percentage. That vast majority have no symptoms, mild,
or moderate.

I hope that the outcome of this will be a great lifting of the anxiety you have been living with. I'm sure you will feel a lot more relaxed about everything having had it and attained a good level of immunity.
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As you may have picked up both myself and the wife have contracted covid and hopefully will make a full recovery. I have been unable however to find a source that confirms immunity?
 
Lienking said:
That's the worrying thing about this, no one knows how it will affect them. Back in March my daughters other-half was quite ill and off work for three weeks. My daughter is deemed to be vulnerable, but had no symptoms. When they brought out the antibody test, they had both had it. Both in their 30s.
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Yes it seems random in its effects.
What's weird is my housemate has identical symptoms.
 
in_the_top_one said:
The good news is that you don't even need to be particularly lucky. Infections that become critical are a small percentage. That vast majority have no symptoms, mild,
or moderate.

I hope that the outcome of this will be a great lifting of the anxiety you have been living with. I'm sure you will feel a lot more relaxed about everything having had it and attained a good level of immunity.
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Yes it'll be much better when i've got over it at least!
 
jbacsta said:
As you may have picked up both myself and the wife have contracted covid and hopefully will make a full recovery. I have been unable however to find a source that confirms immunity?
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Rest easy. How many sources have you found for multiple infections in the same person? That would be big news.

There have been one or two reports but these have been called into question (testing issues) and it is certainly not widespread. Even where it has 'happened', the second infection was not serious in any of the reports I have read.
 
in_the_top_one said:
Yes, it is very tribal and there is a lot of speculation. But there was nothing preventing us from doing exactly what we did, which was the incorrect assertion that was rebutted.
137,000 (at the time) was a great start - all journeys start with the first step - but a drop in the ocean with respect to the task ahead. I'm sure we will be able to see the relative rates of vaccination in due course, but I'm not sure what that will tell us.
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Legally there was nothing preventing any of the 28 countries going their own way on this. Remarkable coincidence that none of the other 27 countries did though. (Political pressure?) Now there is a kickback with countries belatedly going their own way, breaking ranks, and trying to purchase their vaccines directly.
 
jbacsta said:
As you may have picked up both myself and the wife have contracted covid and hopefully will make a full recovery. I have been unable however to find a source that confirms immunity?
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I should add that responsibility doesn't stop with individual immunity.
Even if I personally happen believe you are probably safe from reinfection, that certainly does not mean I know for a fact that you cannot pass it on to others.

Wear a mask. Leave space. Wash hands. No parties.

The rules haven't changed for you... yet. Not legally or morally.
 
Lienking said:
Legally there was nothing preventing any of the 28 countries going their own way on this. Remarkable coincidence that none of the other 27 countries did though. (Political pressure?) Now there is a kickback with countries belatedly going their own way, breaking ranks, and trying to purchase their vaccines directly.
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No, it isn't a coincidence but you are mixing at least two things here: approval, purchase dates, purchasing power, roll out, administration of the jabs, etc.

On approval, I think most of those other countries will not have had the expertise that we had. Why do we have the expertise? Well, you might think that we have it:
- through our world-beating science frameworks (that are being damaged by Brexit);
- because much expertise still resides here, even though the EMA moved in 2019 (damaging the UK's skills base, power, and influence because of brexit); or
- because we were in the process of building up the MHRA, having been forced at great expense to reinvent the wheel after we brexited, and the government asked that their first priority should be to approve (if appropriate) the BioNTech/Pfizer jabs.

The last could be considered a good outcome of Brexit (but does not negate damage to the other two). If we go for the most brexit-rosy 'answer', then they have now approved two jabs. That is good news. Let's see if they can keep up with all those medicines that are forthcoming, and also whether they have been neglecting other tasks. In any case, the MHRA is replacing a more powerful organisation with greater capacity, and jobs that we already had in the UK that has since moved away definitely because of brexit.
 
in_the_top_one said:
No, it isn't a coincidence but you are mixing at least two things here: approval, purchase dates, purchasing power, roll out, administration of the jabs, etc.

On approval, I think most of those other countries will not have had the expertise that we had. Why do we have the expertise? Well, you might think that we have it:
- through our world-beating science frameworks (that are being damaged by Brexit);
- because much expertise still resides here, even though the EMA moved in 2019 (damaging the UK's skills base, power, and influence because of brexit); or
- because we were in the process of building up the MHRA, having been forced at great expense to reinvent the wheel after we brexited, and the government asked that their first priority should be to approve (if appropriate) the BioNTech/Pfizer jabs.

The last could be considered a good outcome of Brexit (but does not negate damage to the other two). If we go for the most brexit-rosy 'answer', then they have now approved two jabs. That is good news. Let's see if they can keep up with all those medicines that are forthcoming, and also whether they have been neglecting other tasks. In any case, the MHRA is replacing a more powerful organisation with greater capacity, and jobs that we already had in the UK that has since moved away definitely because of brexit.
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I'm no expert on this, but I'm not mixing things up. Purchasing power the EU theoretically beats us hands down. However the EU is a cumbersome organisation and was too slow purchasing, doesn't appear to have purchased enough, and because of political pressures, seems to have bet on a French vaccine that is nowhere near ready. They may have purchased it more cheaply than us (though I haven't seen any proof) , but it appears to be in the wrong quantities and too slowly,

Regarding approval, I'm pleased to hear that our "industrial wasteland" (not your words) has more expertise than not only Germany or France, but the entire EU.

Purchase dates , we seem to have bought sooner, and so far our "pathetic" rollout (again not your words) seems to be going reasonably well.

Not having a go at you, but I've been reading doom and gloom on here about Brexit for over 4 years . Some of the things may turn out to be worse, but it's clear that many of the things we were told would happen haven't.
 
i am a tree said:
Ahh but you forget English tub thumping nationalist rhetoric is justified because we are the best and brightest this world has to offer.
Scots are stupid and ginger so they can fuck off.

On another note, my housemate just got a positive test back, and we've both been ill for the last couple of days which is absolutely terrifying given my serious health conditions. I may be stuck in hospital for some weeks.
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Keep in touch chap. If you need anything pop it on here. Im sure one of us can help.
 
i am a tree said:
Ahh but you forget English tub thumping nationalist rhetoric is justified because we are the best and brightest this world has to offer.
Scots are stupid and ginger so they can fuck off.

On another note, my housemate just got a positive test back, and we've both been ill for the last couple of days which is absolutely terrifying given my serious health conditions. I may be stuck in hospital for some weeks.
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All the very best

It really is random.

My grandfather, who died of lung cancer in November was absolutely sure his whole household had it in March and he shook it off (no confirmation of course, but still).

The chances are very high you will be fine but just be watchful and keep safe
 
Lienking said:
I'm no expert on this, but I'm not mixing things up. Purchasing power the EU theoretically beats us hands down. However the EU is a cumbersome organisation and was too slow purchasing, doesn't appear to have purchased enough, and because of political pressures, seems to have bet on a French vaccine that is nowhere near ready. They may have purchased it more cheaply than us (though I haven't seen any proof) , but it appears to be in the wrong quantities and too slowly,

Regarding approval, I'm pleased to hear that our "industrial wasteland" (not your words) has more expertise than not only Germany or France, but the entire EU.

Purchase dates , we seem to have bought sooner, and so far our "pathetic" rollout (again not your words) seems to be going reasonably well.

Not having a go at you, but I've been reading doom and gloom on here about Brexit for over 4 years . Some of the things may turn out to be worse, but it's clear that many of the things we were told would happen haven't.
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Why do you think it was too slow purchasing?
Why do you think they have not bought enough?

They have ordered 2 billion doses which is at least twice as many as they need.
They have approved Pfizer and will probably approve Moderna tomorrow.

They could not have approved any of the other options because those companies have not yet applied for approval to the EMA.
Despite that, they are undertaking rolling reviews of AZ and J&J to expedite the process.

Their purchase portfolio is sensibly diverse. They have not "bet on a French vaccine" at anyone else's expense. The biggest purchase in terms of doses is Curevac at 405m. However the second and third biggest are AZ (the "Oxford vaccine") and Johnson & Johnson both with orders of 400m.

Serious questions:
Where did you get the idea that they had gambled on the French option? (with the implication that was incorrect or reckless.)
Where did you get the idea that decision (which isn't actually true) was due to political pressure?
Where did you get the idea that they were too slow to purchase when they have orders for 2 billion doses?
Where did you get the idea they haven't bought enough when they have bought 2 billion doses but a population less than 448m?

I think the answers are important.
 
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Strett said:
The No1 duty of a government is to protect its citizens, the SNP have spectacularly failed on both points I raise.
All nationalist parties are good at selling themselves, history has taught us this. They are failing in many aspects of governance, but the tub-thumping nationalist rhetoric strikes a note with a large number of the electorate.
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"The No1 duty of a government is to protect its citizens..."

The phrase "only opens his mouth to change feet" springs to mind.
 
in_the_top_one said:
Why do you think it was too slow purchasing?
Why do you think they have not bought enough?

They have ordered 2 billion doses which is at least twice as many as they need.
They have approved Pfizer and will probably approve Moderna tomorrow.

They could not have approved any of the other options because those companies have not yet applied for approval to the EMA.
Despite that, they are undertaking rolling reviews of AZ and J&J to expedite the process.

Their purchase portfolio is sensibly diverse. They have not "bet on a French vaccine" at anyone else's expense. The biggest purchase in terms of doses is Curevac at 405m. However the second and third biggest are AZ (the "Oxford vaccine") and Johnson & Johnson both with orders of 400m.

Serious questions:
Where did you get the idea that they had gambled on the French option? (with the implication that was incorrect or reckless.)
Where did you get the idea that decision (which is actually true) was due to political pressure?
Where did you get the idea that they were too slow to purchase when they have orders for 2 billion doses?
Where did you get the idea they haven't bought enough when they have bought 2 billion doses but a population less than 448m?

I think the answers are important.
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Its patently obvious where he gets his ideas; he trawls the world wide web for op ed pieces, published by every loon under the sun, which confirm his own prejudices.
 
in_the_top_one said:
Side note: I do sometimes wonder why I am proud of the UK when I can claim no credit for its phenomenal achievements over the years. Why do I feel proud rather than just have admiration? Pride means you have skin in the game and I don't really know where that emanates from. Do you get a kick out of it just because you live here? Anyway, that's perhaps for another day.
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Could it be that it's just because you're English ? Although that could be just a presumption on my part.

I should add that I'm still proud of my English Heritage even after 50 years in God's own country.

:yes:
 
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