Covid Restrictions

[markinkent]

I think you may be letting your hatred of the tories get in the way.

They need to close some things to lower the R number. I'd be fairly confident in saying there is more mingling and likelihood of spreading the virus at bars/establishments.

They could make it that only restaurants can stay open. However I'm pretty sure you'd say "WT actual F my local pub serves meals like a restaurant but they've been forced to close".

To be fair on more places they've come up with the substantial meal part which is also to help avoid abuse in bars staying open cause they sell peanuts and sausage rolls. Unfortunately that requires some common sense to apply it which appears to be distinctly lacking in some parts. So yes they did fail on that part.

Just adds to the confusion and ambiguity. Shut all pubs and restaurants is a nice clear message. Shut anything that is not essential. Look at what other countries are successfully doing

Short sharp breaks to slow the spread. We (tax payers) will have to support those businesses but the government finds the money to buy the support of the DUP and to pay for their failings (grayling ferries and botched ppe contracts as examples).

We need clear direction and leadership through this. Id take wee Jimmy krankie over boris at the moment.

You are right though I do hate the Tories.



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[markinkent]

You are spot on of course, also explains the rise going on in London and it's move to tier 2. However, it can also be no coincidence that Manchester, Liverpool and London were also the main hotspots some weeks ago for massive illegal raves and parties. Add to that football fans celebrating trophy wins and large demonstrations (one at the Nigerian embassy yesterday with 2000+ people crammed together on a pavement) and it was always going to be a recipe for disaster.
Social and economical problems play a massive part but so does behaviour and I don't remember Messrs Burnham and Khan having as much to say about those issues at the time.

Classic example and these students moaned that Police had "spoiled their fun". Thats a real 'WT actual F' moment.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...-throwing-house-party-in-tier-2-zone-12110368

Public behaviours certainly contributes. These fines are pointless though. I wonder what percentage issued will actually be pursued to payment.

Very few would be my guess.

A quick Google shows only 50% are paid. As I was often told when the kids were young a threat without consequence is pointless. Apparently "go to sleep or we won't go on holiday tommorrow" was widely acknowledgement as a pointless threat !

 

[Nobby_66]

Public behaviours certainly contributes. These fines are pointless though. I wonder what percentage issued will actually be pursued to payment.

Very few would be my guess.

A quick Google shows only 50% are paid. As I was often told when the kids were young a threat without consequence is pointless. Apparently "go to sleep or we won't go on holiday tommorrow" was widely acknowledgement as a pointless threat !

Whats more worrying is that people need to be threatened with fines rather than simply "doing the right thing".

F*** society, f*** poor old grandma, f*** Boris, f*** da police. I'll do what I want and f*** the consequences.

Then, oh no, another lockdown, I'll have no money. Whats Boris doing about it?

Me me me me me me, poor me

 

[markinkent]

Whats more worrying is that people need to be threatened with fines rather than simply "doing the right thing".

F*** society, f*** poor old grandma, f*** Boris, f*** da police. I'll do what I want and f*** the consequences.

Then, oh no, another lockdown, I'll have no money. Whats Boris doing about it?

Me me me me me me, poor me

I agree 100%. Thats the society we have created though. Obviously not helped by those in government publicly flouting their own rules.

 

[Sturdy Gill]

Whats more worrying is that people need to be threatened with fines rather than simply "doing the right thing".

F*** society, f*** poor old grandma, f*** Boris, f*** da police. I'll do what I want and f*** the consequences.

Then, oh no, another lockdown, I'll have no money. Whats Boris doing about it?
Absolutely spot on how hard is it for common sense to prevail.
People just don’t care want to blame the government who in my opinion have thrown more cash at this than I would ever have predicted but that’s still shit and not good enough.
More more and more please or I will whinge moan and complain about how I don’t understand what’s going on

Me me me me me me, poor me

 

[Sturdy Gill]

Didn’t post for some reason

Spot on Nobby I am sick and tired of people whinging moaning and complaining about the government not doing enough.

I don’t know what more can de done at present other than the public using common sense and stop looking to blame them for everything

This is worldwide and not just the UK.

 

[Sturdy Gill]

I agree 100%. Thats the society we have created though. Obviously not helped by those in government publicly flouting their own rules.

Not just the Government MPS have all been caught out regardless of party not just Tories look at Corbyn with his house party - and he was a party leader FFS

 

[markinkent]

Not just the Government MPS have all been caught out regardless of party not just Tories look at Corbyn with his house party - and he was a party leader FFS

Agreed would have better to have said those in influential positions e.g. government, opposition MPs and celebrities/sport stars.

Everyone will remember Cummings though and Boris failure to show how serious his error was.

 

[shotshy]

I don’t often disagree with jogills on social or political issues (brexit aside) but still think that it’s 100% driven by personal choices and don’t believe that social deprivation is the driver.
A perfect example was yesterday and the protest about Nigeria .
It’s accepted that Black people are more at risk and yet thousands of young black people willingly congregated in the streets in protest.
Then got on busses, trains etc and went back to their families.
If mum or dad or granny now catches the virus, that’s not because of deprivation, it’s because of the actions of those who protested.
It is all about personal behaviour.

 

[ThreeSixes]

It’s accepted that Black people are more at risk and yet thousands of young black people willingly congregated in the streets in protest.
.

No it's not. I think that's been disproved (that BAME are more genetically susceptible to coronavirus)

 

[ThreeSixes]

Whats more worrying is that people need to be threatened with fines rather than simply "doing the right thing".

F*** society, f*** poor old grandma, f*** Boris, f*** da police. I'll do what I want and f*** the consequences.

Then, oh no, another lockdown, I'll have no money. Whats Boris doing about it?

Me me me me me me, poor me

Hopefully the young that flaunt Coronavirus rules will get the virus themselves (if they haven't already and just don't know they have).

 

[Gills 58]

Come on shotshy you are smarter than that. There is no evidence that comparative behaviour and lack of compliance is behind the hotspots in the North. Those heat maps almost exactly replicate maps showing more crowded housing, higher rates of ill health and disability and other measures of deprivation.

We have seen instances of large scale stupidity in almost all areas but increased infections are driven far more by mixing in homes, the return to universities and outbreaks in medical locations amongst others.

I'd add the spread in factories and where there are poor working practices such as those identified ealier this year in Leicester. I don't suppose north Devon is likely to face those problems to the same extent. You did come across as rather smug there Shotshy.

Likewise, it is easier for me to avoid infection in my wealthy suburb. I'm grateful for my privileged circumstances and don't sneer at those less fortunate.

 

[Gills 58]

I don’t often disagree with jogills on social or political issues (brexit aside) but still think that it’s 100% driven by personal choices and don’t believe that social deprivation is the driver.
A perfect example was yesterday and the protest about Nigeria .
It’s accepted that Black people are more at risk and yet thousands of young black people willingly congregated in the streets in protest.
Then got on busses, trains etc and went back to their families.
If mum or dad or granny now catches the virus, that’s not because of deprivation, it’s because of the actions of those who protested.
It is all about personal behaviour.

The bloke trusted with researching the causes of higher rates in the BAME community has just concluded the opposite to you. I suppose we should take no notice of him as he's an expert.

Ps, obviously irresponsible personal behaviour is also a factor.

 

[LancsGordoRoad]

Re the OP: Not unlawful to travel from Fleetwood, or anywhere else in Lancashire, to a destination outside of Lancashire. It is, however, discouraged.

I am aware of someone with a Lancashire address who was, last week, refused a short holiday let in Cumbria due to their home address having a Lancs post-code.

Dare say there will be many other places in England subject to Tier 3 before long - seems to come down to how many tests are being carried out plus the hospitalisation rate.

 

[shotshy]

I'd add the spread in factories and where there are poor working practices such as those identified ealier this year in Leicester. I don't suppose north Devon is likely to face those problems to the same extent. You did come across as rather smug there Shotshy.

Likewise, it is easier for me to avoid infection in my wealthy suburb. I'm grateful for my privileged circumstances and don't sneer at those less fortunate.

I am not being smug or sneering 58 or certainly didn’t intend to, but even in the most deprived areas or multigenerational homes, someone has to bring it in.
If those in these situations were as careful as they possibly could be, the rate would be less.

 

[Gills 58]

I am not being smug or sneering 58 or certainly didn’t intend to, but even in the most deprived areas or multigenerational homes, someone has to bring it in.
If those in these situations were as careful as they possibly could be, the rate would be less.

Obviously there would be less but many people live in far more challenging situations than I presume you or I do. My household is very low risk and easier to keep safe now it's just me and the missus and we've retired.

I'm not excusing idiotic behaviour. The latest scientific evidence indicates social deprivation as an indicator of greater risk. Hardly surprising.

 

[LockdownLife]

Just adds to the confusion and ambiguity. Shut all pubs and restaurants is a nice clear message. Shut anything that is not essential. Look at what other countries are successfully doing

Short sharp breaks to slow the spread. We (tax payers) will have to support those businesses but the government finds the money to buy the support of the DUP and to pay for their failings (grayling ferries and botched ppe contracts as examples).

We need clear direction and leadership through this. Id take wee Jimmy krankie over boris at the moment.

You are right though I do hate the Tories.



I

But is it really that confusing? By applying just a modicum of thought somewhere should be able to figure out if they should stay open or not. If they can't do that then they probably shouldn't be running a business anyway.

I know a 2-week circuit breaker sounds lovely to us but there will still have to be restrictions after otherwise we'll need another circuit breaker too quickly. Therefore it won't be as great as it sounds. I've also read that some uni economists reckon that for each 2 week circuit breaker we do the economic impact of covid will extend by another year. I know you'll say "it should be lives over money", but extended economic hardship has a huge impact on the health and well-being across society but especially those at the lower end of the spectrum.

Regarding the buying off the DUP and the botched contracts I think even you know paying for a short national lockdown costs more than that. It's comments like that which show you're thinking through political bias.

As Nobby rightfully said everyone is just being selfish. Not all the same type; some don't care if an old biddy dies if it means they can get on with their life, some want to use it for political point scoring when there isn't a government in the world that has reacted perfectly and has been free from complaints by its citizens.

 

[Gills 58]

But is it really that confusing? By applying just a modicum of thought somewhere should be able to figure out if they should stay open or not. If they can't do that then they probably shouldn't be running a business anyway.

I know a 2-week circuit breaker sounds lovely to us but there will still have to be restrictions after otherwise we'll need another circuit breaker too quickly. Therefore it won't be as great as it sounds. I've also read that some uni economists reckon that for each 2 week circuit breaker we do the economic impact of covid will extend by another year. I know you'll say "it should be lives over money", but extended economic hardship has a huge impact on the health and well-being across society but especially those at the lower end of the spectrum.

Regarding the buying off the DUP and the botched contracts I think even you know paying for a short national lockdown costs more than that. It's comments like that which show you're thinking through political bias.

As Nobby rightfully said everyone is just being selfish. Not all the same type; some don't care if an old biddy dies if it means they can get on with their life, some want to use it for political point scoring when there isn't a government in the world that has reacted perfectly and has been free from complaints by its citizens.

And of course you aren't political point scoring here at all are you.

I'd be happy to settle for an average level of competence from this government compared to others worldwide. Are you seriously suggesting this government has reached that level?

Obviously I accept no government can be expected to be perfect and have totally solved this heinous problem. Just average would be ok. Almost all of the competent Tories have been expelled or driven out by this farcial collection of no marks.

 

[shotshy]

And of course you aren't political point scoring here at all are you.

I'd be happy to settle for an average level of competence from this government compared to others worldwide. Are you seriously suggesting this government has reached that level?

Obviously I accept no government can be expected to be perfect and have totally solved this heinous problem. Just average would be ok. Almost all of the competent Tories have been expelled or driven out by this farcial collection of no marks.

I have read three articles this morning, two in Spanish and one from Malta and they say exactly the same about their governments.
All people want is a level of competence.
Surely that cannot be too much to ask for?

 

[LockdownLife]

And of course you aren't political point scoring here at all are you.

I'm not a tory voter.

My only interest/annoyance is how you can predict someone's response to a government statement/policy by who they vote for. It's incredibly tedious especially when you can tell they haven't actually thought about the issue at hand and simply reverted to blind support or slagging off.

Just because you didn't vote for someone doesn't mean you have to say everything they do is wrong. Everyone gets more and more entrenched and views get more extreme (both left and right).

For fairness I have zero doubt that if the party in power was reversed we would have the exact same situation with bias.

'You' in this sense is a general you and not specifically you btw