Coronavirus vaccine | Page 65 | Vital Football

Coronavirus vaccine

ThreeSixes

Vital 1st Team Regular
Unless you believe that all black people are evangelical christians, who believe in god rather than medicine, your earlier suggestion wobbles.
Why would it have to be "all" black people that are evangelical Christians, for religion to be a factor. Why not "significantly more".

I've no idea why you think blacks in their 70's and 80's are less settled and less likely to be registered with GPs than whites? If they are living in more concentrated areas they should be easier to vaccinate, not harder? Surely at that age they would have been in the country for years?

The figures referenced previously refer to "vaccine refusal/acceptance" (i.e. a person has been found and has accepted or refused).
 

ThreeSixes

Vital 1st Team Regular
You wouldn't expect a nurse to carry on working in a covid ward under those circumstances but it seems to be OK for police officers to take similar risk.
A similar risk to nurses working on a covid ward??

Police may be higher risk than people working from home, but they are at no more risk than taxi drivers, supermarket workers or delivery drivers.

If you are over 50, you will be getting yours soon hopefully
 

Nobby_66

Vital 1st Team Regular
A similar risk to nurses working on a covid ward??

Police may be higher risk than people working from home, but they are at no more risk than taxi drivers, supermarket workers or delivery drivers.

If you are over 50, you will be getting yours soon hopefully
But if you're going into a house with 50 + people having a party, they are clearly the type of people who ignore all covid rules. Chances are you'd catch it as none will be wearing masks and the virus is pretty much certain to be present. The risk is similar in that there is a high chance you'd come out of that house infected due to lack of protection. The occupations you mention all work in environments where their customers would be wearing a mask and those workers aren't forced to go into a building full of covid rule breakers.
 

Nobby_66

Vital 1st Team Regular
Right, that's it. Her Majesty is now involved and wants everyone to get jabbed.
Did anyone else feel like she was giving the jab dodgers a bollocking?
I love The Queen but f*** me, I wouldn't want to cross her 🥴
 

Gills 58

Vital Football Hero
Right, that's it. Her Majesty is now involved and wants everyone to get jabbed.
Did anyone else feel like she was giving the jab dodgers a bollocking?
I love The Queen but f*** me, I wouldn't want to cross her 🥴
As a die hard Republican can I say well done to the Queen, especially about people being selfish not having the vaccine. It isn't all about self but for the whole of society. She has set a fine example.

Ps. Think the Queen has done a great job over the years, just don't think the job should exist. Don't want to bother getting sucked in to a predictable debate about it either. Just saying well done to an individual who is a role model.
 

jogills

Vital 1st Team Regular
Why would it have to be "all" black people that are evangelical Christians, for religion to be a factor. Why not "significantly more".

I've no idea why you think blacks in their 70's and 80's are less settled and less likely to be registered with GPs than whites? If they are living in more concentrated areas they should be easier to vaccinate, not harder? Surely at that age they would have been in the country for years?

The figures referenced previously refer to "vaccine refusal/acceptance" (i.e. a person has been found and has accepted or refused).
We know that minority ethnic groups are not registered to vote in as high numbers as the majority, we know that smaller numbers are reguistered with GPs, we know that renters in London move home frequently. All these factors and more make it less likely that we make appropriate contact with some groups. They are over represented in food distribution, transport and the NHS so it's crucial we find a way.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/hea...nority-ethnic-women-likely-miss-a4533041.html

https://www.heartland.scot/news/local/minority-community-registration-campaign/

https://blog.shelter.org.uk/2016/02...o-often-they-are-nearly-nomadic-new-research/


Your muslim fixation led you to plough that furrow intially and I raised the evangelicals in joke rather than seriousness. I am sure we can find people who believe all sorts of things for very many reasons but I think social, economic and accessibility issues are much the biggest drivers together with the need for reassurance. I know a white man, who questioned me about my vaccination experience, he was reluctant to attend for fear of catching covid in a queue. That's a factor for some and could be easily addressed.
 

ThreeSixes

Vital 1st Team Regular
We know that minority ethnic groups are not registered to vote in as high numbers as the majority, we know that smaller numbers are reguistered with GPs, we know that renters in London move home frequently. All these factors and more make it less likely that we make appropriate contact with some groups. They are over represented in food distribution, transport and the NHS so it's crucial we find a way.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/hea...nority-ethnic-women-likely-miss-a4533041.html

https://www.heartland.scot/news/local/minority-community-registration-campaign/

https://blog.shelter.org.uk/2016/02...o-often-they-are-nearly-nomadic-new-research/


Your muslim fixation led you to plough that furrow intially and I raised the evangelicals in joke rather than seriousness.
Were those links supposed to support your post? The first one said that black and Asian women were less likely to attend cervical smear tests than white women, the second was about Scotland GPs trying to get Eastern Europeans to register with GPs, and the 3rd one said that renters moved more than homeowners.

It is really simple (Occam's Razor). If people are religious and believe they are protected by God, they are less likely to believe they need a vaccine. I don't know why you need to argue against it, it is pretty clear (see Tanzania's president for an example)?
 

LancsGordoRoad

Vital 1st Team Regular
Totally get that but, send a PC in my position (55 year old asthmatic) into a house to break up a party of 50 or more people and that officer has a high chance of getting covid. He/she may or may not die but would probably at least be very sick (as a couple of my asthmatic colleagues have been).
That age group and that health condition are not seen as clinically vulnerable so have not been jabbed and are not allowed to shield. You wouldn't expect a nurse to carry on working in a covid ward under those circumstances but it seems to be OK for police officers to take similar risk
From a personal point of view I am quite lucky that I don't have much close contact with the public in that way but hundreds do.

Exactly. The Police Federation is voicing its serious concerns with HMG, which doesn`t seem to give a flying you know what. The Vaccine Advisory body pass recommendations to Mr Hancock; HMG have the power to "add" to that advice if they so wish. This is doing Police v Tory Party relationship a lot of harm.
 

LancsGordoRoad

Vital 1st Team Regular
A similar risk to nurses working on a covid ward?? Police may be higher risk than people working from home, but they are at no more risk than taxi drivers, supermarket workers or delivery drivers.
It`s worth pointing out that nurses in Covid wards have proper protective clothing etc.

To say that police are no more at (Covid) risk than delivery drivers, taxi drivers and supermarket workers illustrates a lack of knowledge about the situations police face directly and without protection on multi-occasions everyday. I can understand why a person might think like that as most will not appreciate the multi-faceted and all too frequent adversarial situations police find themselves in every single day. I`m increasingly bewildered why anyone would join the police these days.
 
There are cases to be made for a number of professions to bump them up the priority lists.
It is still age though that is the major risk factor followed by health.
Members of a profession have members at risk due to the above and some not at risk due to the above.
So vaccinating a fit 25 year old in a profession in preference to a 65 year old with a medical condition makes no sense - What counts is where the vaccine is most effective.
 

LancsGordoRoad

Vital 1st Team Regular
There are cases to be made for a number of professions to bump them up the priority lists.
It is still age though that is the major risk factor followed by health.
Members of a profession have members at risk due to the above and some not at risk due to the above.
So vaccinating a fit 25 year old in a profession in preference to a 65 year old with a medical condition makes no sense - What counts is where the vaccine is most effective.

Yes, the young and old inmates of all prisons are, i`m sure, very happy about getting bumped up the list.

I don`t disagree with your basic premise, vaccine effectiveness is obviously the key consideration. But people who need to be in post to protect us, and are dangerously exposed on a prolonged basis to the virus, receive a vaccine at earliest opportunity - that angle has become illogically fuzzy in its application.
 

jogills

Vital 1st Team Regular
Were those links supposed to support your post? The first one said that black and Asian women were less likely to attend cervical smear tests than white women, the second was about Scotland GPs trying to get Eastern Europeans to register with GPs, and the 3rd one said that renters moved more than homeowners.

It is really simple (Occam's Razor). If people are religious and believe they are protected by God, they are less likely to believe they need a vaccine. I don't know why you need to argue against it, it is pretty clear (see Tanzania's president for an example)?
I'll spell it out, thought I already had. There are all sorts of reasons including religion that I acknowledge. Your first reference was rather predictably Allah. I do not think that the main reason people are not taking up the vaccine offer is religion of any sort. The links were to suggest just a few of the many other reasons.

Do you not believe that a general reluctance to engage with health services is relevant to vaccine take up. Do you not believe that people who move regularly and are not registered with a GP are harder to reach. Your figures are already out of date and more are being reached. If in a few weeks take up is more even will god have gone away.
 

Nobby_66

Vital 1st Team Regular
Yes, the young and old inmates of all prisons are, i`m sure, very happy about getting bumped up the list.

I don`t disagree with your basic premise, vaccine effectiveness is obviously the key consideration. But people who need to be in post to protect us, and are dangerously exposed on a prolonged basis to the virus, receive a vaccine at earliest opportunity - that angle has become illogically fuzzy in its application.
That was sort of my point. Not many 65 year olds, postal workers, shop assistants etc are thrust, on a daily basis, into a scenario where they are forced to come into contact with covid rule breakers (and therefore, likely carriers of the virus with no masks) to carry out duties that are protecting all of us.
I'm in no way blowing my trumpet here, as I said, I have limited contact with the public but the profession as a whole (people like 58's contact) have no choice but to confront it head on. They have no choice of shielding and many have sacrificed contact with their own families for months so that they can protect them because they know there is a high likelihood they could bring the virus home. 15 have lost their lives nationwide in the last 5 weeks, they were not in the right age range for the jab and many had no underlying health conditions.
I am (as you all know) a Tory supporter, they have, over the years (Cameron aside) looked after us but I feel they have dropped a bollock by not jabbing at least the older coppers and teachers.
 

jogills

Vital 1st Team Regular
Starting from where we are I understand the age based approach and there are now too many groups clamouring for priority to be accommodated. I think if we were starting again we'd prioritise first responders and essential transport from the off and I think the public would support that.
 

Gills 58

Vital Football Hero
I see the argument on both sides. For personal reasons I'd obviously want my contact (and thence the police in general) to be prioritised. My contact is in'Response' and hence is forced to have close physical contact with all sorts.

However, I've been asking the government to follow he scientists/experts so I'm torn on this.

I totally get why the ill and over 50's came first but I think certain jobs/professions could then be prioritised. I gather that it would perhaps be complicated to administer. However, teachers would be easy and can be done in blocks - at my school until I retired, us oldies had a flu vaccine session once a year. Could easily do a whole school's staff in a couple of hours (after school one day). Likewise a Police Station could be 'done' in a block.

Ps. Lancs, I don't think there is any level of negligence a Tory government could show the Police that would stop the great majority continuing to vote for them (sadly imo).
 

LancsGordoRoad

Vital 1st Team Regular
That was sort of my point. Not many 65 year olds, postal workers, shop assistants etc are thrust, on a daily basis, into a scenario where they are forced to come into contact with covid rule breakers (and therefore, likely carriers of the virus with no masks) to carry out duties that are protecting all of us.
I'm in no way blowing my trumpet here, as I said, I have limited contact with the public but the profession as a whole (people like 58's contact) have no choice but to confront it head on. They have no choice of shielding and many have sacrificed contact with their own families for months so that they can protect them because they know there is a high likelihood they could bring the virus home. 15 have lost their lives nationwide in the last 5 weeks, they were not in the right age range for the jab and many had no underlying health conditions.
I am (as you all know) a Tory supporter, they have, over the years (Cameron aside) looked after us but I feel they have dropped a bollock by not jabbing at least the older coppers and teachers.
I doubt many on here thought that you were trumpet blowing, Nobs.

To my mind it`s more of a practical issue than a moral one. If police are in the face of Covid all the time then it`s hardly surprising that many officers will be infected. The inevitable consequence of that is increased absence through sickness and collateral (wider) dilution of resource due to isolation policies. Sickness has been high in a number of forces and it begs the question for Government of who, exactly, do they think are out in the community trying to enforce their rules.

Police, through daily contact with people flouting Covid rules are most likely to become super-spreaders themselves. Govt can roll out statistics but none of those will show how many people that Covid positive police officers have passed the disease onto, via family etc and how many of those have become very ill or died.

If I was supervising response officers, I think i`d be struggling with the dilemma of continually deploying unprotected officers head-on into small and large gatherings of Covid infected or Covid reckless rule breakers.

Very short-sighted by Boris.
 

Gills 58

Vital Football Hero
I doubt many on here thought that you were trumpet blowing, Nobs.

To my mind it`s more of a practical issue than a moral one. If police are in the face of Covid all the time then it`s hardly surprising that many officers will be infected. The inevitable consequence of that is increased absence through sickness and collateral (wider) dilution of resource due to isolation policies. Sickness has been high in a number of forces and it begs the question for Government of who, exactly, do they think are out in the community trying to enforce their rules.

Police, through daily contact with people flouting Covid rules are most likely to become super-spreaders themselves. Govt can roll out statistics but none of those will show how many people that Covid positive police officers have passed the disease onto, via family etc and how many of those have become very ill or died.

If I was supervising response officers, I think i`d be struggling with the dilemma of continually deploying unprotected officers head-on into small and large gatherings of Covid infected or Covid reckless rule breakers.

Very short-sighted by Boris.
My contact has had to do shifts when the team were at officially dangerously low levels due to Covid sickness and isolating.

Didn't help either that some were taken off to deal with the anti vaxx covid nutter protesters (and get spat at by them).
 

ThreeSixes

Vital 1st Team Regular
I'll spell it out, thought I already had. There are all sorts of reasons including religion that I acknowledge. Your first reference was rather predictably Allah. I do not think that the main reason people are not taking up the vaccine offer is religion of any sort. The links were to suggest just a few of the many other reasons.
.
I don't know why.you are being so obtuse? There is plenty of evidence linking religion and coronavirus - the highest covid rate in the world is in Stamford Hill in North London which just happens to be (jhtb) populated by deeply religious orthodox Jews. It might jhtb coincidence, or it might be religion that is the reason.

If you are rights and it's a "poverty lag" then the massive difference in take up rates will be corrected in a few weeks time. We'll soon see who is right.
 

Jerryattrick

Vital 1st Team Regular
I don't know why.you are being so obtuse? There is plenty of evidence linking religion and coronavirus - the highest covid rate in the world is in Stamford Hill in North London which just happens to be (jhtb) populated by deeply religious orthodox Jews. It might jhtb coincidence, or it might be religion that is the reason.

If you are rights and it's a "poverty lag" then the massive difference in take up rates will be corrected in a few weeks time. We'll soon see who is right.
biggest problem in Israel re vaccination refusal is amongst the orthodox jews.
 

markinkent

Vital 1st Team Regular
After Johnsons positivity at the beginning of the week a more sobering assessment by JVT at yesterday's briefing. Cases rising in many areas after weeks of falls. Lots of ups and downs before we are out of this.

Schools back will no doubt see an increase. I still don't see why we don't just write off this academic year and have everyone repeat the same year in September