Congratulations to Boris

[Made in Wigan]

Sanctimonious. Supercilious. Blinkered.

Sums up your recent postings sadly.

Have you read the BBC's response to criticisms of the programme and it's alleged bias? I've posted it on here somewhere.

I'll ask for the 3rd time ................... although you may trust the word of your sources, (though if they're like you, and won't hear a word against the government's handling of this situation, maybe their testament isn't to be trusted any more than that of the Panorama contributors) what about the RCP report. They say quite clearly that there are shortages. No bias. No spin. Just shortages. Unless of course, they're all anti-Tory as well.

This report you are hanging off suggests absences have decreased and testing had increased. Strange how you missed this piece of positivity. As for ppe, people’s responses will be based on emotion and fear, i’d take the result of that with caution.
There was some realism in the report - they stated the challenges shouldn’t be underestimated, it would be prudent advice for you to take on board.

So........though you trust people to fully understand (and share a view of) what "Leave" means in a referendum, you don't trust those same people to be able to share in some information regarding what might happen in the next few weeks. My, what a poor view you have of your fellow voters.

As I said earlier, the lack of information will allow idiots like Martin to create his own rules, and this set (false?) expectations.

Why insist that the government always has to be right? Why not comment a little more objectively? You used to.

What has ‘leave’ got to do with this other than reaffirm and explain the bias you are exhibiting. Two completely different things. Human behaviour is such that people cut corners, if they feel things will change next week they won’t think it matters if they do it this week.

As for objectivity - you’ve got to be joking I nearly spilt my brew. I’ve outlined where I believe they went wrong but you submit post after post thread after thread micro analysing every word they say, every action they take and just moan for moanings sake without having any recognition of the unique and unprecedented challenges they face. In short you’ve jumped off that fence you normally occupy and your the lack of objectivity is shining bright in these posts.

 

[moonay]

Sums up your recent postings sadly.

I thought I was back in the school playground for a second then. "You smell". "No, you smell".

Marvellous.

This report you are hanging off suggests absences have decreased and testing had increased. Strange how you missed this piece of positivity. As for ppe, people’s responses will be based on emotion and fear, i’d take the result of that with caution.
There was some realism in the report - they stated the challenges shouldn’t be underestimated, it would be prudent advice for you to take on board.

Given the point being discussed was PPE, I'm not quite sure why you'd expect me to reference other topics in the report. Nevertheless, I think you'll find that I've readily offered praise where it's due. It seems however, you still seem reluctant to take the concerns about the supply of PPE as a serious issue.

What has ‘leave’ got to do with this other than reaffirm and explain the bias you are exhibiting. Two completely different things. Human behaviour is such that people cut corners, if they feel things will change next week they won’t think it matters if they do it this week.

My bias? I merely commented on the difference in trust you now seem to be willing (or more pertinently, unwilling) to place in your fellow Brits as opposed to back then. I'm not referencing how they voted ....... just your hypocrisy. As for human behaviour, if you believe that people are more likely to cut corners when they've been told the full picture, rather than when they're told to just do as they're told (they can't be trusted with any detail) then I guess we'll have to disagree.

As for objectivity - you’ve got to be joking I nearly spilt my brew. I’ve outlined where I believe they went wrong but you submit post after post thread after thread micro analysing every word they say, every action they take and just moan for moanings sake without having any recognition of the unique and unprecedented challenges they face. In short you’ve jumped off that fence you normally occupy and your the lack of objectivity is shining bright in these posts.

Outlined where they went wrong? I must have missed that. Seriously, I must have. I've made lots of critical posts, but every post from yourself seems to defend the government regardless of the evidence.

We have one of the highest death tallys in the world.
We have one of the highest deaths per population rate in the world.
The government are hailing their handling of the crisis as a success.

Forgive me for not taking them at their word.

 

[Made in Wigan]

Given the point being discussed was PPE, I'm not quite sure why you'd expect me to reference other topics in the report.

Balance? Context? Objectivity? But yeah, why would you.

Nevertheless, I think you'll find that I've readily offered praise where it's due. It seems however, you still seem reluctant to take the concerns about the supply of PPE as a serious issue.

I must have missed in amongst the myriad of critical posts. As for ppe, as I’ve said the issue isn't as bad as labour activist medics, the media and yourself make out, but that doesn’t mean I'm blasé about it.

My bias? I merely commented on the difference in trust you now seem to be willing (or more pertinently, unwilling) to place in your fellow Brits as opposed to back then. I'm not referencing how they voted ....... just your hypocrisy.

There is no hypocrisy, they are completely different issues, primarily a human behavioural one which very serious health implications. You should see that, so bias yes for bringing up brexit.

Outlined where they went wrong? I must have missed that. Seriously, I must have. I've made lots of critical posts, but every post from yourself seems to defend the government regardless of the evidence.

I’ve told you several times areas in which they could have done better. You’ve acknowledged and replied to them, so I won’t repeat myself.

Forgive me for not taking them at their word.

Forgiven.

 

[Hampton]

If you truly think MiW that after a defeat in an election, the opposition should just let the government get on with whatever they want to do, then I reckon you don't understand politics as well as you make out you do.

As for the Panorama programme, if it was so out of order and incorrect, then maybe the government should point out where. Counting of PPE? Downgrading of COVID 19. Of course they won't ......... because the points raised were factual.

"the information I receive suggests the situation is in no way as bad as these biased medics would have you believe. "

Ah, you mean your A&E contact. What about the views of the RCN, the BMA and most recently the RCP? Even Raab had to meekishly back down when challenged (and corrected) by Starmer on the RCP report.

I read this morning that Johnson will head up tonight's briefing, and will outline how we might start to lift the lockdown. (Well done KS). As long as he doesn't go on about how well everything has been handled, and has been a great success, it will be a welcome light at the end of the tunnel.

Well done KS - for what.......!
Will keep this ref for future reference.
Sir Kier is attempting to politically point score by pushing the govt into easing the lockdown and sowing discord as he goes.
If all the media and leftist bleating is successful and we end up with another peak I'm sure those calling for it - with the millionaire QC in the van - will take responsibility for it.
If what's going on in Germany is a benchmark Boris should tell it straight and shut him up.

 

[daleks.at.the.monaco]

As you’re incapable I felt compelled to.

Ah MiW version #A : the one that does not do irony

Good job I did not get the angry one, MiW version #B

What do you think Tenfut?

 

[Tenfut]

Ah MiW version #A : the one that does not do irony

Good job I did not get the angry one, MiW version #B

What do you think Tenfut?

MIW - talks a lot of sense, likewise Hampton.

You - gobbledegook.

 

[moonay]

Balance? Context? Objectivity? But yeah, why would you..

Still puzzled why you think should reference every other aspect of a report when the key point in referencing it was one specific issue.

As for ppe, as I’ve said the issue isn't as bad as labour activist medics, the media and yourself make out, but that doesn’t mean I'm blasé about it..

Yeah, OK, you're right ........... because "Labour activist medics" are the only ones raising concerns.

There is no hypocrisy, they are completely different issues, primarily a human behavioural one which very serious health implications. You should see that, so bias yes for bringing up brexit..

I brought it up as a matter of trust. That's all. Reports on the news last night (from the police) suggested that people might feel better about still being locked up if they could see a way ahead, rather than being treated like mushrooms (you know, the old way). As it is, they're getting restless and feel like they aren't being treated like adults.

Forgiven.

It wasn't a request ......... but ta.

 

[moonay]

Well done KS - for what.......!
Will keep this ref for future reference..

Not sure what you're going to keep it for ...... but well done (KS) for urging the PM to at least talk about exit strategy ........ even if he didn't offer anything of any value at this point.

Sir Kier is attempting to politically point score by pushing the govt into easing the lockdown and sowing discord as he goes..

Oh, Hampton. and there's me thinking you were better that that ......... better than trying to score cheap shots.

Starmer said nothing of the sort. In fact, he was very keen to stress that he wasn't seeking to ease lockdown. I'm not really sure how he could possibly have been more supportive. 1 min 30 secs:

If all the media and leftist bleating is successful and we end up with another peak I'm sure those calling for it - with the millionaire QC in the van - will take responsibility for it.
If what's going on in Germany is a benchmark Boris should tell it straight and shut him up.

Not really sure why you bothered with this para Hampton. No-one (well, not KS and certainly not me) are calling for an easing. As I said to MiW, it's a plan for a plan that's needed. That's all.

4/10. Must try (much) harder.

 

[Hampton]

Not sure what you're going to keep it for ...... but well done (KS) for urging the PM to at least talk about exit strategy ........ even if he didn't offer anything of any value at this point.



Oh, Hampton. and there's me thinking you were better that that ......... better than trying to score cheap shots.

Starmer said nothing of the sort. In fact, he was very keen to stress that he wasn't seeking to ease lockdown. I'm not really sure how he could possibly have been more supportive. 1 min 30 secs:

Not really sure why you bothered with this para Hampton. No-one (well, not KS and certainly not me) are calling for an easing. As I said to MiW, it's a plan for a plan that's needed. That's all.

4/10. Must try (much) harder.

Non so deaf as those who won't here Moody
Last night Sir Keir was claiming he personally had delivered a change of gvt position and if you are oblivious to the increasing cacophony from the media raraing this position you are simply in denial.
As i said if the lockdown is eased or lifted and a large second spike occurs as a consequence Sir Keir and the media had better be prepared to take responsibility and blame for it.

 

[Hampton]

Non so deaf as those who won't here Moody
Last night Sir Keir was claiming he personally had delivered a change of gvt position and if you are oblivious to the increasing cacophony from the media raraing this position you are simply in denial.
As i said if the lockdown is eased or lifted and a large second spike occurs as a consequence Sir Keir and the media had better be prepared to take responsibility and blame for it.

No offence intended - autocorrect changed "hear Moonay" to "here Moody" - oh the irony !

 

[moonay]

Non so deaf as those who won't here Moody
Last night Sir Keir was claiming he personally had delivered a change of gvt position .................

I didn't hear that Hampton .............. but given that the "sage" opinion (as opposed to "SAGE") is that Johnson offered nothing in terms of easement of lockdown, I guess that those claims would really count for nothing.

Remember .......... you said "Sir Kier is attempting to politically point score by pushing the govt into easing the lockdown" ................... it would have been gracious of you to acknowledge that (based on the evidence from PMQs), you were mistaken.

....... and if you are oblivious to the increasing cacophony from the media raraing this position you are simply in denial.

I'll be honest here .............. From the elements of the media I've seen (BBC News, Sky News, C4 News and just a few "mainstream reporters twitter streams - no newspapers) I don't think I've heard such a "cacophony" ......... however pianissimo it might have been.

Regardless, it wasn't the media I was defending against the accusation ........ just Starmer.

As i said if the lockdown is eased or lifted and a large second spike occurs as a consequence Sir Keir and the media had better be prepared to take responsibility and blame for it.

As Starmer specifically said that he isn't calling for any lifting, I really don't understand why you'd take that view.

Maybe 4/10 was being generous ..................... then again, we've already established I'm a generous soul. NB.....Light-heartedness alert, for those who need it!

 

[Made in Wigan]

till puzzled why you think should reference every other aspect of a report when the key point in referencing it was one specific issue.

It’s as I’ve said, balance, context, objectivity.

You jumped all over a perceived negative in a report without cognisance of the fact it was an opinion - one understandably driven by fear so therefore over exaggerated. You ignored the positive aspects of the report that were fact based.

because "Labour activist medics" are the only ones raising concerns.

I also said the media and you. Throw in the unions too. Most of it politically driven, despite some isolated problems no doubt. But not on the scale portrayed.

I brought it up as a matter of trust. That's all. Reports on the news last night (from the police) suggested that people might feel better about still being locked up if they could see a way ahead, rather than being treated like mushrooms (you know, the old way). As it is, they're getting restless and feel like they aren't being treated like adults.

You’re right, it is a matter of trust. Would I trust you to comply with government instructions? Yes I would. However there are hoards of folk in this country who wouldn’t and then there are those will take shortcuts or jump ahead if they feel it’s ending ‘because it won’t matter’. It’s human nature. As such it means you, me and every other law abiding person will need to be kept in the dark like mushrooms due to the selfish behaviour of others.

 

[moonay]

As i said if the lockdown is eased or lifted and a large second spike occurs as a consequence Sir Keir and the media had better be prepared to take responsibility and blame for it.

'Ere Hampton ......... have a shufty at this. It's one of the PM's Russian donors telling him he should be lifting the lockdown. I thought it was all the lefties and the meeja doing that.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1256209909823275010

 

[moonay]

It’s as I’ve said, balance, context, objectivity.



You jumped all over a perceived negative in a report without cognisance of the fact it was an opinion - one understandably driven by fear so therefore over exaggerated. You ignored the positive aspects of the report that were fact based.

I'm not saying it again.

I also said the media and you. Throw in the unions too. Most of it politically driven, despite some isolated problems no doubt. But not on the scale portrayed.

I meant as opposed to other medics with different political persuasions. If you don't accept that it's medically driven as opposed to politically, then I guess we'll have to disagree.

You’re right, it is a matter of trust. Would I trust you to comply with government instructions? Yes I would. However there are hoards of folk in this country who wouldn’t and then there are those will take shortcuts or jump ahead if they feel it’s ending ‘because it won’t matter’. It’s human nature. As such it means you, me and every other law abiding person will need to be kept in the dark like mushrooms due to the selfish behaviour of others.

But there are some already being selfish, ............... maybe it's because they don't know when it will end.

 

[Made in Wigan]

You’ve buggered the formatting.

But I will say it again - balance, context and objectivity.

I don’t accept its wholly medically driven, not all. Without doubt there is a significant element of politics at play.

Those selfish feckers will continue to be selfish (and if caught I’d put them on a no covid treatment list) but the last thing we need is others to jump the gun. You’ll just need to be patient.

 

[moonay]

You’ve buggered the formatting.

But I will say it again - balance, context and objectivity. .

I know ....... deliberately.

I'll also say it again then ......... I think I am, I apply and I am again.

I don’t accept its wholly medically driven, not all. Without doubt there is a significant element of politics at play..

I'm happy to disagree, but if you really think that, then why wouldn't someone senior within the NHS (BMA, RCP, or RCN) come out and discredit the claims?

As individuals, maybe they were happy to make the claims, even eager, because of their politics, but to not be refuted by the wider organisation, then they must surely be of substance.

Those selfish feckers will continue to be selfish (and if caught I’d put them on a no covid treatment list) but the last thing we need is others to jump the gun. You’ll just need to be patient.

I agree with the first part ............ and not jumping the gun ....... but I maintain a plan for a plan would make an awful lot of sense. It would only actually cover stuff like we've already discussed ......... what types of businesses might go back first, what kinds of restrictions might need to be in place, etc. ......... just so that business can start to make early preparations, in order to be ready.

 

[moonay]

Taken from the London Evening Standard:

 

[Made in Wigan]

I'm happy to disagree, but if you really think that, then why wouldn't someone senior within the NHS (BMA, RCP, or RCN) come out and discredit the claims?

As individuals, maybe they were happy to make the claims, even eager, because of their politics, but to not be refuted by the wider organisation, then they

They most likely have similar political views, but in any case are unlikely to upset their members when clearly the aim is to keep bleating about ppe to ensure they always have enough. Effectively it’s not in their interest to discredit it.

I agree with the first part ............ and not jumping the gun ....... but I maintain a plan for a plan would make an awful lot of sense. It would only actually cover stuff like we've already discussed ......... what types of businesses might go back first, what kinds of restrictions might need to be in place, etc. ......... just so that business can start to make early preparations, in order to be ready.

Businesses should be making preparations or contingencies regardless. The government don’t want to screw the economy or businesses, so rest assured when it’s safe and as soon as they can, restrictions will be lifted. We all know at the merest suggestion the media would be incessantly demanding more and more details fuelling the belief in people they can ignore government advice of measures were to be lifted. The review is next week and there will be more detail then, so people just need to exercise restraint and patience. Or in simple language, chill the fuck out!

 

[moonay]

They most likely have similar political views, but in any case are unlikely to upset their members when clearly the aim is to keep bleating about ppe to ensure they always have enough. Effectively it’s not in their interest to discredit it.

Who? The senior managers in the NHS? The Dcotors, Physicians and nurses in the BMA, RCP and RCN? All of them? Wow. That's a hell of an assumption.

Regardless, we can agree to disagree.

Businesses should be making preparations or contingencies regardless. The government don’t want to screw the economy or businesses, so rest assured when it’s safe and as soon as they can, restrictions will be lifted. We all know at the merest suggestion the media would be incessantly demanding more and more details fuelling the belief in people they can ignore government advice of measures were to be lifted. The review is next week and there will be more detail then, so people just need to exercise restraint and patience.

I don't think there's a million miles between what we're saying, but a little guidance (which business for example? Pubs? .....surely not) might be welcome. .... but again, we could agree to disagree ..............

Or in simple language, chill the fuck out!

.........and then you finish with that.

 

[daleks.at.the.monaco]

MIW - talks a lot of sense, likewise Hampton.

You - gobbledegook.

What, you have no opinion in the debate?