Climate change. | Page 6 | Vital Football

Climate change.

Over 80,000 people in the Sydney CBD today, all complaining about climate change. At this rate I think our pathetic Govt just might have very little choice about getting involved.
We can't live without air conditioning and it's very expensive to run. How's that system of yours going Feco ?
 
Over 80,000 people in the Sydney CBD today, all complaining about climate change. At this rate I think our pathetic Govt just might have very little choice about getting involved.
We can't live without air conditioning and it's very expensive to run. How's that system of yours going Feco ?

It’s ready now ORF, we have a factory and the thing is in production.

Next stage is setting up the distribution channels, which is harder than you would think possible.
The HVAC industry seems to be only interested in profits, and at distribution level, they are not huge on equipment supply, adding extra components into a system adds cost, so the incentive for a distributor is not as strong as the consumers.

We are still developing the panel, mainly on the aesthetics now.

The next developments are well on the way, and we will be back testing in the US next year.
The aim to have off-grid HVAC available within 5 years should be achievable. And it will be competitive financially with its mains powered rivals.

This is the link...

https://41-c.com/english/

People forget that climate change is not just about carbon emissions, there are many far more potent greenhouse gases out there, although not in the quantities of CO2.

Methane is 4 times more potent and every time we throw the trash out some will end up in a landfill.

There are a few companies looking at that issue and how it can be tackled.

Like us it’s been a long development road but these guys have developed a system that uses waste to create domestic hot water whilst separating recyclables, all with minimal emissions, and highly efficient.
It’s about the same size as a normal washing machine.
Tackles the issues created by waste to landfill and plastics too.

https://www.myheru.com/heru-for-home/

Lots of small innovations out there that will make a difference.

Great to see all the young people out protesting yesterday, they are the future, it’s vital they are engaged in all of this. They are the only ones who can drive change.
 
I don't pretend to know much about environmental issues, but you have more faith in the current younger generation than I have. These are the generation who go to Glastonbury and can't be bothered to take their tents home, replace their mobile phones every two years and don't seem to able to live without a brand name on their shoes and clothes.

I was brought up with no car, tv , phone , central heating etc, only flew two return trips before I was 40, . Does amaze me how much waste is produced though. Vegetables in plastic bags, boxes of paper hankies which are cheaper if you buy two in cling film, and the best one of all Heinz beans clingfilmed together in film with 100% print coverage.



Why not ban multipacks. They are packaged products in further packaging !
50% VAT for products in needless packaging. (Bananas, potatoes etc)
Soup in tins rather than plastic pots. (I assume this is better?).
Complete ban on single use carrier bags.

We also need more information . For years no one said there was plastic in tea bags, we were told diesels were more environmentally friendly etc
 
I believe the tents are donated to the homeless so leaving them is a decision on that basis.

Having no phone, car, central heating, etc, probably wasn't a choice for you. What are you doing today? All of those things, no doubt. So no need to take any moral high ground or bash the kids unnecessarily.
Agree 100% with the packaging comments but it's yours and my generation that are selling all this crap, not the younger generation. I have more faith in them than yours and mine, whether we returned or milk bottles or not.
 
So no need to take any moral high ground or bash the kids unnecessarily.

Can obviously only be the current and future generations that change things. Not taking the moral high ground, just stating the facts. Corporations may be to blame, the Government and the EU, but certainly my generation spent the first 20 years of their lives producing very little waste. I used to walk to most places, my parents never had a car, tv or even a landline phone. Food was bought from the corner shop. No plastic bags, plastic toys etc Funny that the Green Party love the EU. Cars used to be produced in areas like Luton and Coventry, with the ancillary jobs in the locality. You've said yourself that parts now are driven backwards and forwards half way around Europe, most of our cars made here are exported, and most of those used here made in Germany. Only technological advancement will prevent more climate change, as most people won't vote for a return to a lifestyle of 40 years ago.
 
The green party is all about local production and usage..? The EU does not prevent local manufacturing. However, pan national organisations, like the EU, are probably the only way to combat further climate change. The EU has driven huge changes that reduce energy consumption, increase recycling, reduce pollution and toxicity, improve food safety, and clean up the environment that clearly would not have occurred in all the member states independently. Surely this is not a matter for debate no matter how much poison you have swallowed from other sources?

They are some of the principal reasons why - on balance - the greens are very positive about it. It is glib and misleading to call these massive successes and positive improvements into question by saying it's "funny that the green party love the EU" just because the EU facilitates free movement of goods. That's a classic example of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It is little pseudo-factoids like this - sometimes true, sometimes not - that have been very successful for Nigel Farage's campaign of fear and misinformation. Is the EU perfect? No, of course not. Whoever would say it was? But here you are, having a pop at the EU for not being green, when in fact you would not be able to come up with any example worldwide of such an instrumentally positive force for environmental good.
 
According to Wikipedia less than 10% of carbon dioxide emissions come from the EU. Only worldwide agreements like the Kyoto and Paris agreements will have any effect. As I've said on other matters, there are more reasons than one for not buying Chinese products. You say that if Brexit ever happens car production will be hit, which shows precisely how free trade and free movement have encouraged companies to move things around needlessly. Here's a nice extract from an EU report. I do like the special instructions for the staff telling them how to switch a tele on at the mains !

Courtesy telegraph/Parrot Press

For an EU obsessed by climate change and its possible effects, more embarrassing is the report’s admission that “10,200 tonnes of CO2 per year would be saved if Strasbourg were no longer used as a place of work”.
That is the equivalent of 12,000 cars driving around the circumference of the world.
In an attempt to cut emissions, at the end of last year MEPs were sent an email from the parliament’s helpdesk, informing them that, from now on, all televisions in Strasbourg would be switched off between plenary sessions.
In other words, it suggests that for the previous 14 years, televisions had been left on for weeks at a time, even when MEPs were in Brussels rather than France. It goes on to explain how MEPs can switch their televisions back on.
The helpdesk email. which has been passed to The Telegraph, states: “We hereby inform you that we took the initiative to turn off all the TV sets in Strasbourg between the sessions.
“Apart from the substantial reduction of energy consumption, this action will also provide for a better protection of these devices in case of sudden electrical incident.
“When arriving to your office at Strasbourg, you will have to turn on again the TV before using the remote control to select your channel (the switch is located behind the TV set).
 
Having been to the garden centre for lunch, a couple more things for the list

Salt, vinegar, sauce etc in little plastic packets
Single use cups , plates etc
Plastic bottled water

Who is old enough to remember when you used to take your own glass bowl to the chippie, so you could have gravy on your pie ! (Before they invented polystyrene trays!)
 
Having been to the garden centre for lunch, a couple more things for the list

Salt, vinegar, sauce etc in little plastic packets
Single use cups , plates etc
Plastic bottled water

Who is old enough to remember when you used to take your own glass bowl to the chippie, so you could have gravy on your pie ! (Before they invented polystyrene trays!)
Sorry, I'm still unclear if you're blaming children or the EU for this admittedly appalling situation.
 
Sorry, I'm still unclear if you're blaming children or the EU for this admittedly appalling situation.

Children? Do children go to festivals ? Have I blamed them for the environment ? Just that you have more faith in the younger generation than I do. Will they turn their back on computers, tvs, cars , travel etc as they get older ? I doubt it. Change will hopefully come from technological advances in these areas, though modern technology also causes it's own problems. When I was 30 you got a phone, tv etc and kept them till they broke , generally ten or twenty years later. I had a fridge that I gave to someone and 30 years later it was still working. Now when a mobile phone contract runs out after two years, the phone gets replaced. Most items are made with built in obsolescence. The individual units probably use a lot less power, but few things now seem to last.

If people want to donate tents, why don't they take them home and donate them? Far more likely that they are being donated because they had to find something to do with them after peopled couldn't be bothered to take them home.

As for the EU, not totally to blame, but there never used to be hundreds of thousands of trucks trundling things in and out the country. Food was seasonal, and you eat what was in season. Raw materials would be bought in, and manufacturing and sales took place in one area. The EU's open borders have encouraged manufacturers to trundle parts backwards and forwards round Europe. Decimated our manufacturing too, which is probably not a point for this thread.
 
Interesting to hear this talk of children and climate change. The most I seem to have heard about this subject over the last few years has come from old fogies like me. But in the last year or maybe longer school kids have picked up on it and now it could be that politicians see a vote in it, at least that seems to be the position over here. I've got 6 grandchildren in their 20s and know a good many more in the same age group and they mostly seem to be engrossed in having a good time and moaning that they can't seem to save for the deposit on a house. I've run out of sympathy, never heard any of them refer to climate change and they mostly have a decent brain which makes it worse. I've also got a couple of grand daughters, both married with 3 kids and tied up with paying off a fat mortgage and raising their families. I can sympathise.
I find it annoying when it takes school children to get adults off their backsides.
On another point now that Oz is officially part of Asia I should point out that burning off is a regular routine throughout Asia when clearing jungle and never stops. Also when cleaning up after cropping. And it's serious.

When I say "old fogies" I should make it clear that I'm not referring to any of you fellow posters.
 
Children? Do children go to festivals ? Have I blamed them for the environment ? Just that you have more faith in the younger generation than I do. Will they turn their back on computers, tvs, cars , travel etc as they get older ? I doubt it. Change will hopefully come from technological advances in these areas, though modern technology also causes it's own problems. When I was 30 you got a phone, tv etc and kept them till they broke , generally ten or twenty years later. I had a fridge that I gave to someone and 30 years later it was still working. Now when a mobile phone contract runs out after two years, the phone gets replaced. Most items are made with built in obsolescence. The individual units probably use a lot less power, but few things now seem to last.

If people want to donate tents, why don't they take them home and donate them? Far more likely that they are being donated because they had to find something to do with them after peopled couldn't be bothered to take them home.

As for the EU, not totally to blame, but there never used to be hundreds of thousands of trucks trundling things in and out the country. Food was seasonal, and you eat what was in season. Raw materials would be bought in, and manufacturing and sales took place in one area. The EU's open borders have encouraged manufacturers to trundle parts backwards and forwards round Europe. Decimated our manufacturing too, which is probably not a point for this thread.

You highlight the problem with the Climate Change argument. This situation has been developing over many many decades.....you could argue since the birth of the Industrial Revolution, so in that respect we are all to blame, not age groups, or political institutions, everyone has contributed in some way.

I personally think that there is so much smoke and mirrors on certain aspects of Climate Change that the true picture is distorted. It really should be called environment change.

In my little sphere of work, which has been one of the biggest producers of CO2, I can assure you that in most of the industrialized world, emissions (including CO2 Nox SO2,) from electricity generation have been reduced massively, in the case of SO2, by 95%.
Most of our domestic electrical gadgets are now significantly more energy efficient too, so whilst we have more of them, our electrical demand on the system has steadily fallen, so less generation required, meaning less pollution.

Cars are more efficient, so despite many more vehicles being on the road, the net emission effect is significantly better than it was 30 years ago, similarly with the air industry.
In fact the UK CO2 footprint is around half of what it was in 1990.

Unfortunately whilst the 'centerpiece' polluters have stepped up their game, the throw away culture of life today cause significant other problems that have, until recently, been ignored.
Whilst recycling is improving, much of our waste still goes to landfill, the net result being methane is generated and released into the atmosphere. Methane is 4 times more polluting than CO2. There are other issues, pollutant run off into rivers.
We can reduce landfill significantly by incorporating local processing centres that use Pyrolysis technology, those process all exist are proven and effective, helping to improve the environment, even if they are not perfect.
These will only be short term needs in any case as technology and lifestyle starts to naturally reduce waste.

More worrying and what we as humans don't seem to be able to grasp is the other more damaging aspects of our existence.
The Rain Forests are being cleared at alarming rates, the burning effectively negating the work done in the power, aviation and car industries in reducing emissions, and of course we are still decimating natural habitat, dumping waste into oceans causing further imbalances in the natural world,

Technology can only take us so far, at some point it comes down to individual behavior, and allowing the natural world to be so wantonly destroyed has to be a priority change for humans.
Thankfully it seems like the younger generations are more aware of this than the older ones, and we all know what happens when the 'will of the people' is expressed, the people who exert power tend to listen. Hopefully this will be the case this time around....except Trump.

Bottom line is, every individual has a duty to ensure his or her polluting footprint is minimized, or eradicated. It really isn't difficult to do with a little research, achieving a balance is not difficult, and doesn't require living in a brightly painted bus in a forest clearing with no showers or hairdressers with lots of other outcasts.
It can be easliy done in any town, city or village in the industrialized world.

As the saying goes....every little helps!!

And yes children go to festivals......I dragged mine along to Download on many occasions....I'm not sure about the music, but they loved the mud!!
 
Very informative, Feco, though I am aware some children are at festivals. Don't think ten years olds turn up alone, en masse , and leave their tents there though !

Thought hydrogen might be the answer to our fuel problems, but I was reading that although it only leaves water as waste, it involves burning fossil fuels in order to get the raw material .

Noticed yesterday that Sainsbury's announced they no longer do the small plastic bags to put your veg in. They are selling re-usable net bags for 30p. A small step forward, but much of the veg like baked potatoes still only come pre-packed in plastic ! We will go to the greengrocers and buy the veg there, and use a bit more fuel instead !
 
Very informative, Feco, though I am aware some children are at festivals. Don't think ten years olds turn up alone, en masse , and leave their tents there though !

Thought hydrogen might be the answer to our fuel problems, but I was reading that although it only leaves water as waste, it involves burning fossil fuels in order to get the raw material .

Noticed yesterday that Sainsbury's announced they no longer do the small plastic bags to put your veg in. They are selling re-usable net bags for 30p. A small step forward, but much of the veg like baked potatoes still only come pre-packed in plastic ! We will go to the greengrocers and buy the veg there, and use a bit more fuel instead !

You would be amazed at some of these 10 year old's complete festival animals, far worse than the adults.....moshpits the lot.

Like most things you don't get nothing for nothing, we haven't created perpetual motion yet. Hydrogen is a very viable fuel source, but as we all know, in the natural world it is also a very stable element.....we don't often see the sea's and rivers spontaneously exploding.
So you are quite right we have to do something to break that stability and that does mean using some form of energy.
It's not my area of experience, but I am 100% sure that somebody somewhere is working on a viable solution to that very problem, and that it will become a usable technology, indeed, I'm sure that BMW had got a viable hydrid system available in the not too distant past.
The biggest issue for such technology right now is the oil companies, which is what I understand persuaded BMW to 'curtail' research.

I find the food chain problem very interesting, as many of the issues of yield, environmental impact have been heavily researched.
This video is of a ride in EPCOT Florida, and highlight technologies that are both well established and practical. Unfortunately they are also not currently 'market friendly'.
The first couple of minutes is the 'entertainment' bit of the ride, before the education element starts. Sadly the amazing smell can't be experienced.....I'm sure Apollyon can confirm that bit.


Such systems can be deployed just about anywhere, and with local adjustments could be adapted to local needs.
Interesting that this site, being in Florida, you would think would be an ideal growing climate. It isn't due to the heat and humidity, in needs extensive climate control, which is expensive.
In theory we could be just as productive in the UK, indeed I believe that there are a number of small operations working quite successfully in some of the disused underground tunnels in London.
As always the prohibitive factor for such activities is cost, it is a more energy intensive process, (nothing for nothing....perpetual motion etc) and green energy is more expensive than coal, gas or oil generation, so the end products are currently more expensive.
That obviously doesn't fit the typical supermarket chain model of high volume low cost. This can be high volume, but is currently, at best, medium cost.

Again its the collective process, reduce energy costs, such processes become cheaper, therefore more available to a bigger market, then the viability of such systems increases.

On a domestic front there a few facilities selling hydroponics in Nottinghamshire...they are worth a visit.

So is EPCOT and the restaurant attached to this ride!! Research can be fun....
 
More from The Telegraph/Parrot Press

Extinction Rebellion backer Chris Hohn builds £630m stake in Heathrow

Sir Christopher Hohn, the hedge fund billionaire who this month revealed that his was the biggest individual donation to Extinction Rebellion, has quietly built a €730m (£630m) stake in the owner of Heathrow Airport.

Spreading stakes across a number of investment companies, Sir Christopher has been able to keep a near-4pc position in Spanish construction and services behemoth Ferrovial under wraps. His investment raises the prospect of an audacious raid on one of the world’s biggest infrastructure companies.

Personally and through his charity The Children’s Investment Fund Foundation, Sir Christopher has donated £200,000 to the activists’ cause on account of the “urgent need” for people to wake up to climate change.
 
What's your point?

My point is that someone who is funding Extinction Rebellion has £630 million pounds invested in Heathrow. What you make of that is up to you, but seems rather hypocritical to me. I'm all for conservation etc but Extinction Rebellion are going about things the wrong way.
 
Or maybe he's trying to offset his guilt. Like paying extra for your plane ticket for carbon offsetting schemes or choosing green energy tariffs. Either way, I'm sure xr won't be using his money to promote a third runway.


What you really mean is that you don't like xr and this helps you to undermine them because it smells sufficiently of hypocrisy for you to have an enjoyable little pompous dig. "These youngsters are going about it all wrong, I tell you". Did it make you feel good? What have you achieved? Want to have a pop at Greta while you're at it?

"I'm all for conservation but..."
But what? Got any bright ideas to change policy? Or help convince Trump that there is even a problem? Xr has been extremely effective so far. But it's only so far so good.
Tbf, sitting on top of a tube train was a little ill thought out.