Brexit poll

[nitram77]

...and I know leavers that have changed their mind, but no remainers. Not sure why you made the opposite point

Here is one who voted remain but would vote leave if there was another referendum.

 

[GillsBluenose]

I put in an offer on a house and the survey comes back showing it is a dump. Must I proceed?

No. I pull out, even if it takes me 40+ years (during which time death watch beetle has infested it) to achieve it.

 

[ThreeSixes]

That is a weird comparison and can't see how buying a house has any relevance to leaving the EU.

Of course it doesn't. If you live in a house for 40 years and then sell it, can you knock on the door 3 years later and say you've changed your mind and want it back?

A closer comparison would be a marriage. It would be like telling your wife of 40 years that you don't love her any more, and then spending the next 3 years trying to negotiate the terms of her letting you back. The damage has already been done.

 

[ThreeSixes]

Here is one who voted remain but would vote leave if there was another referendum.

And i make 2.

 

[Gilles Lingam]

I, and tens of thousands (or more) of other Brits in Europe, weren't given the vote ... & since 2016, in the UK, many are no longer here & many have since reached voting age.
However, I don't think a second referendum would change much as I don't think that there would be a significant swing either way.

 

[chris who]

I, and tens of thousands (or more) of other Brits in Europe, weren't given the vote ... & since 2016, in the UK, many are no longer here & many have since reached voting age.
However, I don't think a second referendum would change much as I don't think that there would be a significant swing either way.

Your lack of vote is a total injustice. Citizens should be able to pick which country they wish to vote in.IE if a Polish worker in the UK wishes to vote in Poland he should be allowed too.But at the expense of voting in the UK. The same should be true of UK citizens in all other parts of he world.
I know the Lib Dems wish to introduce a system of this sort into the UK .They would have different constituencies.I would guess it would be the last UK address they were registered would work best.
It is daft that the very people most affected by Brexit had no say what so ever.

 

[LancsGordoRoad]

From the outside this appears 100% correct.

The vote was to leave. I can’t see why it wasn’t then that every single politician (regardless of their own viewpoint) made it their duty to see that happened promptly and orderly..

At some time in the future i`d guess there will be major reflection on the principle of Losers Consent. Democratic elections are surely designed to create unequal outcomes. A democrat, i`d have thought, would have to support such a principle as the efficacy and ultimately the survival of democratic regimes can be seriously threatened if the losers do not consent to their loss.

I think that we shall have to have a serious look at how we do things in politics. It could well be time for an overhaul and consideration of ridding the process of the House of Lords and, maybe, having another look at PR.

 

[shotshy]

Without losers consent, the deck of cards collapses.
This is what has happened with brexit.
The problem is that the anti democrats cannot see it.
Yeah but. No but. Yeah but.

That scatty liberal bint has already said that if there was to be another vote she wouldn't respect an leave result

 

[Wayne.Kerr]

Here is one who voted remain but would vote leave if there was another referendum.

But not because of logic or common sense

 

[markinkent]

It is daft that the very people most affected by Brexit had no say what so ever.

Truest statement about the whole charade.

I am a remainer but willing to accept that we leave as long as its with a deal. The EU will still be our closest trading partner after we leave and we need to have an amicable divorce so that we can negotiate the future relationship.

The worst part of this is does anyone really trust Bojo and his backers ? Whats in it for them you always have to ask and looking after the people who voted for their plans won't be high on their agenda in my opinion.

Do people really believe that the likes of Rees-Mogg are doing this to benefit the man in the street ?

I think it will take years and years before we start to see the true impact on this.

Still at least we'll have blue passports and have taken back control (sic).

 

[Wayne.Kerr]

At some time in the future i`d guess there will be major reflection on the principle of Losers Consent. Democratic elections are surely designed to create unequal outcomes. A democrat, i`d have thought, would have to support such a principle as the efficacy and ultimately the survival of democratic regimes can be seriously threatened if the losers do not consent to their loss.

I think that we shall have to have a serious look at how we do things in politics. It could well be time for an overhaul and consideration of ridding the process of the House of Lords and, maybe, having another look at PR.

If you recall, Parliament invoked Article 50 by a significant majority. After that, we heard nothing until May came up many months later with a WA that she had negotiated but without any consensus from these shores before closing the deal, which was illustrated by the massive defeat in the first vote. Had Leavers been consulted early on; had Remainers' input been sought, a deal, not necessarily May's deal, would have been passed. Consultation would have been real democracy and we would have left the EU by now. Even late on, Boris made an error by insisting that October 31 was the cut-off date regardless. Asked during the Tory leadership campaign if he'd extend that date if an agreement could be achieved Boris said NO. He had that opportunity last Saturday but insisted that an Act of Parliament that would have had the most significant peacetime impact on the UK's state of affairs ever should be passed in 3 days because of the 31/10 deadline. Even his advisor said it would take four weeks. Plus, both May and Boris put saving the Tory Party in the face of ERG opposition etc ahead of the Nation's interests.

 

[chris who]

At some time in the future i`d guess there will be major reflection on the principle of Losers Consent. Democratic elections are surely designed to create unequal outcomes. A democrat, i`d have thought, would have to support such a principle as the efficacy and ultimately the survival of democratic regimes can be seriously threatened if the losers do not consent to their loss.

I think that we shall have to have a serious look at how we do things in politics. It could well be time for an overhaul and consideration of ridding the process of the House of Lords and, maybe, having another look at PR.

The problem with that is there was no majority for anything in the first place.Leavers wanted a deal well some did and some did not .Some including many in government never supported no deal.Parliament probably approximately would reflect the people in a totally free vote .Many different ideas about deals no deals etc.48% said they wanted to remain that was the biggest single indorsment.Almost certainly bigger than any indorsment that a UK parliament would get from the UK people at any time.

 

[Wayne.Kerr]

Still at least we'll have blue passports and have taken back control (sic).

True, although red passports were never an EU requirement but now we have control (sick)

 

[Rob_b100]

Here is one who voted remain but would vote leave if there was another referendum.

And i make 2.

And unfortunately I am a third. My mind hasn’t changed. I am a staunch remainer and fully believe we are better in than out, however (as I have posted previously), it is wrong to keep asking people their opinion until you get the answer you want. The people voted (wrongly imo) and we must leave. Although I would probably abstain or spoil my paper in a second referendum as I don’t want to leave but believe we should respect the majority.

 

[LancsGordoRoad]

The problem with that is there was no majority for anything in the first place.Leavers wanted a deal well some did and some did not .Some including many in government never supported no deal.Parliament probably approximately would reflect the people in a totally free vote .Many different ideas about deals no deals etc.48% said they wanted to remain that was the biggest single indorsment.Almost certainly bigger than any indorsment that a UK parliament would get from the UK people at any time.

Chris, I was simply making a point about a principle, i didn`t directly link it to the referendum. Having said that, a referendum is the most direct form of democracy there is and in the Brexit referendum there was, indeed, a majority outcome. IMO, it matters not that there was a 4% differential in the result, what matters is that it was a result. I said earlier that "Democratic elections are surely designed to create unequal outcomes". The point is, they provide a result.
I`ve said before that I don`t have any rigid view on all this but I do want a resolution and would like to see it resolved asap. If that`s leaving then i`m fine with that, as that was the direct democratic decision - even if i didn`t vote for it.

 

[ian08040]

And unfortunately I am a third. My mind hasn’t changed. I am a staunch remainer and fully believe we are better in than out, however (as I have posted previously), it is wrong to keep asking people their opinion until you get the answer you want. The people voted (wrongly imo) and we must leave. Although I would probably abstain or spoil my paper in a second referendum as I don’t want to leave but believe we should respect the majority.

I certainly have not changed my mind,but 2 of our son in laws have,both voted Remain and now Leave,I don’t get to involved in discussions with family,as to what it could lead to.
But I do admire what you say Rob regarding respect of the majority

 

[ThreeSixes]

But not because of logic or common sense

So?

 

[Wayne.Kerr]

Chris, I was simply making a point about a principle, i didn`t directly link it to the referendum. Having said that, a referendum is the most direct form of democracy there is and in the Brexit referendum there was, indeed, a majority outcome. IMO, it matters not that there was a 4% differential in the result, what matters is that it was a result. I said earlier that "Democratic elections are surely designed to create unequal outcomes". The point is, they provide a result.
I`ve said before that I don`t have any rigid view on all this but I do want a resolution and would like to see it resolved asap. If that`s leaving then i`m fine with that, as that was the direct democratic decision - even if i didn`t vote for it.

The problem with a referendum is that it's almost certainly a yes/no question which is no basis for legislation unless it comes after the event. Yes, Leave won the vote but what did they win as epitomised with so many different versions of Brexit on the table. Usually, a plebiscite comes after discussion not before, ie negotiate a WA then put it to the people.

 

[LancsGordoRoad]

If you recall, Parliament invoked Article 50 by a significant majority. After that, we heard nothing until May came up many months later with a WA that she had negotiated but without any consensus from these shores before closing the deal, which was illustrated by the massive defeat in the first vote. Had Leavers been consulted early on; had Remainers' input been sought, a deal, not necessarily May's deal, would have been passed. Consultation would have been real democracy and we would have left the EU by now. Even late on, Boris made an error by insisting that October 31 was the cut-off date regardless. Asked during the Tory leadership campaign if he'd extend that date if an agreement could be achieved Boris said NO. He had that opportunity last Saturday but insisted that an Act of Parliament that would have had the most significant peacetime impact on the UK's state of affairs ever should be passed in 3 days because of the 31/10 deadline. Even his advisor said it would take four weeks. Plus, both May and Boris put saving the Tory Party in the face of ERG opposition etc ahead of the Nation's interests.

Wayne, I accept that you are more "tuned-in" to all this than I am. As I mentioned to Chris, I was thinking more about the political principles involved rather than the actual Brexit debate. The world of politics just seems to be a dogs dinner right now and when there`s (hopefully) a bit more tranquility around perhaps we need to have a long hard look at ourselves.

 

[ThreeSixes]

Truest statement about the whole charade.

That the people most affected by Brexit don't actually live in the UK?

I think you have seen what "the man in the street" really thinks about Brexit. The remain marches have almost 100% been middle class whites, with witty banners making sure everyone knows how right on they are. The "average man on the street" is more concerned with whether they are going to be able to make a living, find a house, get a doctor's appointment etc, than whether they will be held up on holiday or need different insurance when driving abroad.