Brexit poll | Vital Football

Brexit poll

Brexit poll

  • No deal

    Votes: 11 17.5%
  • Boris's deal

    Votes: 20 31.7%
  • An amended (softer) deal

    Votes: 2 3.2%
  • A confirmatory referendum (No deal, Parliament's majority deal or remain - transferable voting)

    Votes: 9 14.3%
  • Revoke and remain

    Votes: 21 33.3%

  • Total voters
    63

OneSirKeefy

Vital 1st Team Regular
#2
Forgive me as an “outsider” now, but why are “confirmatory no deal or remain” and “Revoke and remain” even put there as options?

I thought the country already voted to leave. Is that view too simplistic?

Or are there really people who think “I don’t like that result, let’s do it all again until it’s how I like it”.


Should I be ducking for cover now?
 

chris who

Vital Football Hero
#3
Forgive me as an “outsider” now, but why are “confirmatory no deal or remain” and “Revoke and remain” even put there as options?

I thought the country already voted to leave. Is that view too simplistic?

Or are there really people who think “I don’t like that result, let’s do it all again until it’s how I like it”.


Should I be ducking for cover now?
The reason is simply that many have now changed their minds .The result was unsafe because of the amount of rubbish at the last referendum. If we had another people know about lot more now .It is hard to be certain of the possible result of course. But it would not be a given for Brexit and there has never been a majority for a type of Brexit. Had the referendum been more precise we would not be in this mess.Personally I think Brexit will happen.Do I think it will carve up Britain yes .Will it make us better off No .Happier No .Are the EU to blame no the Tories are it was simply a bid to bring that party together against what many see as a common enemy. Other Tories see the EU as essential to our prosperity . They are as diverse as ever but a majority will stick with Johnson to get another term regardless of the damage to the country .The Tories will suffer in years to come for this crazy party trick.But it will probably work in the short term.
I call it a party trick.Because the Tories and Brexit party have seemingly got away with blaming foreigners for the mess they have made .
Ironically largely the same party trick that Hitler used before WW2.
 
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GillsBluenose

Vital 1st Team Regular
#4
If there is another referendum, there must be one going forward every four or five years.

Since joining the EU back in the seventies, neither of the two electable parties has ever consulted the electorate about the issue. As soon as they do, the public make their views clear. They no longer wish to be controlled by an organisation that is clearly taking us for a ride, purely to make trade easier and smoother, which is the good bit.

As countries have joined en masse, our influence has been watered down to practically nothing and yet we are still one of the main paymasters. Some say stay and try to reform it, but there are too many vested interests working against each other for that to happen.

Maybe reform will happen after we leave so it will be worth rejoining but I have my doubts.
 

GillsBluenose

Vital 1st Team Regular
#6
Forgive my ignorance on this, but how are we being controlled? Not being provocative, just asking a genuine question.
Metaphorically speaking:
1. Having our wallet taken and being held upside down so the change falls out as well.
2. Our court outranks your court in certain important circumstances.
3. Don't you dare refuse to accept whoever we want to send over to you.
4. Your vote doesn't count when we appoint our bigwigs.

PS: All so we can send you a lot more goods than you send us.
 

Gills 58

Vital Football Hero
#8
The reason is simply that many have now changed their minds .The result was unsafe because of the amount of rubbish at the last referendum. If we had another people know about lot more now .It is hard to be certain of the possible result of course. But it would not be a given for Brexit and there has never been a majority for a type of Brexit. Had the referendum been more precise we would not be in this mess.Personally I think Brexit will happen.Do I think it will carve up Britain yes .Will it make us better off No .Happier No .Are the EU to blame no the Tories are it was simply a bid to bring that party together against what many see as a common enemy. Other Tories see the EU as essential to our prosperity . They are as diverse as ever but a majority will stick with Johnson to get another term regardless of the damage to the country .The Tories will suffer in years to come for this crazy party trick.But it will probably work in the short term.
I call it a party trick.Because the Tories and Brexit party have seemingly got away with blaming foreigners for the mess they have made .
Ironically largely the same party trick that Hitler used before WW2.
Spot on
 

Gills 58

Vital Football Hero
#9
Forgive my ignorance on this, but how are we being controlled? Not being provocative, just asking a genuine question.
He believes the sh#t that the Daily Mail/Sun/Farage peddle. As someone who taught some EU law (not at a high level I admit), I know that is bollocks.

For being controlled look no further than multi national corporations, the media controlled largely by the super rich and hedge funders like ERG Mogg with his money moved to Dublin. Oh the irony of it all.
 

Baghdad_Rob

Vital Squad Member
#10
Forgive me as an “outsider” now, but why are “confirmatory no deal or remain” and “Revoke and remain” even put there as options?
No remainer in Parliament has said it out loud because all claim to respect the referendum result :whist: but there is a certain desire that if there is a referendum to agree every stage then the moment a referendum says stay, remainers will suddenly declare the vote legally binding and will cancel Brexit immediately (even if remain wins by 50% plus one vote which Wayne has pointed out that doesn't count as a majority)
 

Gills 58

Vital Football Hero
#11
I put in an offer on a house and the survey comes back showing it is a dump. Must I proceed?

As it happens, if we got the wonder deal that the Leavers said the EU would rush to give us then I'd be ok with that. Have we?
 

Baghdad_Rob

Vital Squad Member
#12
I put in an offer on a house and the survey comes back showing it is a dump. Must I proceed?

As it happens, if we got the wonder deal that the Leavers said the EU would rush to give us then I'd be ok with that. Have we?
That is a weird comparison and can't see how buying a house has any relevance to leaving the EU.

Would you recognise a good deal? Most remainers seem to he stuck in the mentality that the EU is the best deal so that by default anything else must be worse and bad.
 

SteveTreacle

Vital Squad Member
#13
The reason is simply that many have now changed their minds .The result was unsafe because of the amount of rubbish at the last referendum. If we had another people know about lot more now .It is hard to be certain of the possible result of course. But it would not be a given for Brexit and there has never been a majority for a type of Brexit. Had the referendum been more precise we would not be in this mess.Personally I think Brexit will happen.Do I think it will carve up Britain yes .Will it make us better off No .Happier No .Are the EU to blame no the Tories are it was simply a bid to bring that party together against what many see as a common enemy. Other Tories see the EU as essential to our prosperity . They are as diverse as ever but a majority will stick with Johnson to get another term regardless of the damage to the country .The Tories will suffer in years to come for this crazy party trick.But it will probably work in the short term.
I call it a party trick.Because the Tories and Brexit party have seemingly got away with blaming foreigners for the mess they have made .
Ironically largely the same party trick that Hitler used before WW2.
The only “changing of minds” that has occurred is invitation of arrogant remainers, epitomised by 80% of our parliament, who are inviting those who didn’t vote the way they wanted to change their mind. I don’t know any leaver and not many remainers who have changed their mind.

There is no such thing as a confirmatory referendum as cast by bad losing remainers - what it is is a desperate and last attempt to overturn the result of the referendum. What they want is not “confirmation” of the result but an opportunity to overturn it by the back door (ideally by changing the question posed too).

We voted to leave by a fairly large majority and should do so. If, as remainer MPs keep saying, we need to confirm how we leave, the referendum should be between Boris’s deal and no deal.
 
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OneSirKeefy

Vital 1st Team Regular
#14
No remainer in Parliament has said it out loud because all claim to respect the referendum result :whist: but there is a certain desire that if there is a referendum to agree every stage then the moment a referendum says stay, remainers will suddenly declare the vote legally binding and will cancel Brexit immediately (even if remain wins by 50% plus one vote which Wayne has pointed out that doesn't count as a majority)
From the outside this appears 100% correct.

The vote was to leave. I can’t see why it wasn’t then that every single politician (regardless of their own viewpoint) made it their duty to see that happened promptly and orderly.

But it seems there must be major vested interests to stay because every time something is put to the vote, it is blocked or voted against.

And I agree, it appears if ever there was some kind of vote that resulted in “stay” everything would suddenly be ratified and everyone moves on.
 

SteveTreacle

Vital Squad Member
#15
I put in an offer on a house and the survey comes back showing it is a dump. Must I proceed?

As it happens, if we got the wonder deal that the Leavers said the EU would rush to give us then I'd be ok with that. Have we?
Yes we do. We have a better deal than “no deal” and a better option than the damage to democracy that will occur for decades (if what happens that a lot of us predicted would as soon as the referendum result was announced) and the referendum result is overturned, whether it by by revoking or by a disingenuous second referendum.
 

Wayne.Kerr

Vital Champions League
#16
Would you recognise a good deal? Most remainers seem to he stuck in the mentality that the EU is the best deal so that by default anything else must be worse and bad.
One flaw in that statement, no-one has yet given any actual indication, example or idea as to what the new possibilities/markets are outside EU membership. All Leavers talk/talked about is bringing back control, regaining our sovereignty, making our own decisions with a default of 'project fear' for anything else. Right now, EU membership is the only deal that, as yet, has not been replaced. The WA is the stepping stone to the promised Shangri-La [a permanently happy land, isolated from the world] and Botswana.
 

Wayne.Kerr

Vital Champions League
#17
Metaphorically speaking:
1. Having our wallet taken and being held upside down so the change falls out as well.
2. Our court outranks your court in certain important circumstances.
3. Don't you dare refuse to accept whoever we want to send over to you.
4. Your vote doesn't count when we appoint our bigwigs.

PS: All so we can send you a lot more goods than you send us.
Thus spake Zarathustra: words for All and None as Nietzsche put it. Oh shit, he was German so he would wouldn't he?
 

mehmets_curlies

Vital Squad Member
#18
The only “changing of minds” that has occurred is invitation of arrogant remainers, epitomised by 80% of our parliament, who are inviting those who didn’t vote the way they wanted to change their mind. I don’t know any leaver and not many remainers who have changed their mind.

There is no such thing as a confirmatory referendum as cast by bad losing remainers - what it is is a desperate and last attempt to overturn the result of the referendum. What they want is not “confirmation” of the result but an opportunity to overturn it by the back door (ideally by changing the question posed too).

We voted to leave by a fairly large majority and should do so. If, as remainer MPs keep saying, we need to confirm how we leave, the referendum should be between Boris’s deal and no deal.
...and I know leavers that have changed their mind, but no remainers. Not sure why you made the opposite point
 

chris who

Vital Football Hero
#19
Metaphorically speaking:
1. Having our wallet taken and being held upside down so the change falls out as well.
Unless you own a company set up to benefit you may as well open your wallet and empty the notes out if we come out without a deal that benefits our workers and businesses.
 

mehmets_curlies

Vital Squad Member
#20
That is a weird comparison and can't see how buying a house has any relevance to leaving the EU.

Would you recognise a good deal? Most remainers seem to he stuck in the mentality that the EU is the best deal so that by default anything else must be worse and bad.
I think a trade deal that has made a significant contrbution to us becoming the 5th biggest economy in the world, with one of the best employment figures in the world, is a good deal. That is what we have belonging to the EU. Tell me, how would you replace that should there be no deal in a way that our economy doesn't suffer?