Brexit Day! | Page 46 | Vital Football

Brexit Day!

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i am a tree said:
Maybe not, but at least the social care system is.... oh

Well at least the disabled have benefits to fall b.... oh

Well at least people with mental health difficulties are... wait staying in police stations now because they have nowhere else?!?!?
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I don't think it is a political issue to be honest. Each government has their issues.
 
eastanglianred said:
I don't think it is a political issue to be honest. Each government has their issues.
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The deliberate defunding of essential services isn't a political issue? When only one party is deliberately defunding said services and other parties don't want to?

I would say the issue is a result of the tories' ideological disdain for the poor and is therefore a political issue.
 
i am a tree said:
The deliberate defunding of essential services isn't a political issue? When only one party is deliberately defunding said services and other parties don't want to?

I would say the issue is a result of the tories' ideological disdain for the poor and is therefore a political issue.
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Don't get me wrong, I agree with you on the funding issue and in an ideal world you would want all to receive a fair crack. Unfortunately there are some that have and do abuse this. Most people appreciate that when you have a credit card bill for £1,000 the interest is £100, you have other outgoings of £200 and you only earn £250, something has to give. I don't feel that is a political issue, its a fiscal one and poor management to get you into that position in the first place.
 
Polly 433 said:
It is likely to hit the rich first then everyone equally.
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Sorry I disagree, it will be the low to middle earners that it will hit. The simple reason being that there are more of them and it is easier to do something to them as it has the biggest and more immediate effect.
 
eastanglianred said:
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you on the funding issue and in an ideal world you would want all to receive a fair crack. Unfortunately there are some that have and do abuse this. Most people appreciate that when you have a credit card bill for £1,000 the interest is £100, you have other outgoings of £200 and you only earn £250, something has to give. I don't feel that is a political issue, its a fiscal one and poor management to get you into that position in the first place.
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I don't know that you can simplify it that far.

There is certainly an element of fiscal mismanagement for sure, I think the Blair government should be held responsible for that as much as any other, but the consequences didn't have to be so extreme and and didn't have to hit all services simultaneously. The way it was done was careless (as in 'we don't care about the consequences for the poor') and ideologically so.
 
i am a tree said:
I don't know that you can simplify it that far.

There is certainly an element of fiscal mismanagement for sure, I think the Blair government should be held responsible for that as much as any other, but the consequences didn't have to be so extreme and and didn't have to hit all services simultaneously. The way it was done was careless (as in 'we don't care about the consequences for the poor') and ideologically so.
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It is that simple though. We are living beyond our means. The current political party inherited a situation through previous mismanagement and fiscal irresponsibility, along with other poor decisions that have cost and continue to cost the country dearly (then again when we put the decision to the public the majority that vote also make mistakes!)
Isn't cutting costs across the board the fair thing to do though, rather than focus on a particular group.
It would be great to have the 1 trillion wealth that the Norwegians have such that we could be more supportive of health etc. but we don't and therefore we have to cut our cloth to suit.
 
eastanglianred said:
It is that simple though. We are living beyond our means. The current political party inherited a situation through previous mismanagement and fiscal irresponsibility, along with other poor decisions that have cost and continue to cost the country dearly (then again when we put the decision to the public the majority that vote also make mistakes!)
Isn't cutting costs across the board the fair thing to do though, rather than focus on a particular group.
It would be great to have the 1 trillion wealth that the Norwegians have such that we could be more supportive of health etc. but we don't and therefore we have to cut our cloth to suit.
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Beyond our means - LOL
 
i am a tree said:
The deliberate defunding of essential services isn't a political issue? When only one party is deliberately defunding said services and other parties don't want to?

I would say the issue is a result of the tories' ideological disdain for the poor and is therefore a political issue.
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I agree but being in the EU also means that countries have no option
eastanglianred said:
It is that simple though. We are living beyond our means. The current political party inherited a situation through previous mismanagement and fiscal irresponsibility, along with other poor decisions that have cost and continue to cost the country dearly (then again when we put the decision to the public the majority that vote also make mistakes!)
Isn't cutting costs across the board the fair thing to do though, rather than focus on a particular group.
It would be great to have the 1 trillion wealth that the Norwegians have such that we could be more supportive of health etc. but we don't and therefore we have to cut our cloth to suit.
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Mervyn King (not the darts player :grinning:) seems to disagree with you about previous mismanagement and fiscal irresponsibility. I thought everyone knew by now that there was a global financial crash (deliberately caused by the way). In opposition, the Tories pledged to match Labour's spending and wanted LESS regulation of the banks
 
This 'thicko' tag is like catnip to those un-reconciled remainers, reinforcing both their claims of superior understanding and their contempt for the uneducated masses who dared to vote against the settled view of almost the entire intellectual establishment.

‘Why should the pond life that dragged itself from the estates to the ballot box be allowed to ruin everything for the rest of us?’

Those with lower educational qualifications were more likely to be among voters who felt pushed back in the queue for public services as a result of unchecked migration from the 27 other EU nations, or sensed that their earning power had been squeezed for similar reasons.

The ones with a higher education might have been thinking of the ability to buy a property in Italy without paying a special tax — or of his children’s opportunity to study at a French university for the same price as the locals.

In that sense, the working-class “leave” voter and the middle-class remainer are no different: both were acting rationally, according to their own perceived self-interest.
 
Lienking said:
Post a link then. My understanding is that it has been taken from small polls since. Either way, according to Pope it was a secret ballot and no one knows who voted for what. (that was the point he was trying to make). Of course you also need to interpret what is meant by education. When I went to Uni about 7% of the population, and I haven't (quite) reached retirement age. A smaller percentage went before. Now it's probably five or six times that. Even if you assume education means a formal piece of paper, that's a million miles away from leaping to the conclusion that Leave voters are any less intelligent than Remainers, which is what Remainers tend to imply.
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You do your own research but i can agree with you objectively regarding generational bias. However, you cannot disregard the overall uplift in standards of education; i.e. more people go to uni and other forms of training (not too mention access to information) and are inherently better educated than their forebares. Education is not a straight swop for intelligence.
 
da fuq said:
I never backtracked I just didnt want to give you the details after you tried umpteen times to get my personal information you absolute card

I've lead you a merry dance over years and you know it

Like the time I asked you some basic questions about post production editing techniques and threw in some fake shit and you said you were going to ask your "Dad" bless

Then you came back with some absolute drivel that you had just read online and actually fell for the traps I set...all this to try to live out this fantasy about your father and the BBC

Embarrassing

And just because i cant be arsed with the whole Neo Liberal nunaced debate with a mental who is close to having a meltdown

It was you being the dense one by piping up about New Labour and Neo Liberalism

My point was they took Neo Liberalism to new heights and they did I didn't say they had not used other philosophies

You had made a movie in your head an ran with it you started making assumptions about what I had said and Radford too

I didn't disagree with the points he was making

Try and do a bit of reading fella from one of many bits of information available about Neo Liberalism and New Labour that aren't so nuanced


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/aug/06/society.labour


This little bit should help if your tiny mind cannot understand what came before it


"This was not likely to be reversed by a mere rotation of the electoral wheel of fortune. The historic opportunities for the left required imaginative thinking and decisive action in the early stages of taking power, signalling a new direction. The other choice was, of course, to adapt to Thatcherite, neo-liberal terrain. There were plenty of indications that this would be New Labour's preferred direction. And so it turned out. In a profound sense, New Labour has adapted to neo-liberal terrain - but in a distinctive way. "

That is how to copy past plums you know make sure people know its a quote...not passing shit off as your own from wiki to make yourself seem big and clever
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I would still argue against the idea that NL took neo-lib to new heights. They decided to try and work with business and curb the worst excesses. Obviously they were taken for complete mugs and PFI remains the gold standard of how not to do things. That you acknowledge they used more than one school of thought is more accurate. The easy criticism is that they were just populist pragmatists but it was deeper than that- as blair said at the time they believed it was right!
 
Calvin Plummer said:
Well Radford agreed with me, which means you agree with me that New Labour weren't Neoliberal. Nice one :)
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I both agreed and disagreed with you both. You are both emphasising different aspects of the same thing but your personal emnity towards each other (and both of you have got a bit sucked in) is taking away from your more insightful comments. Tbf this dicussion would be more comfortable in a uni seminar room and is at least another case in point about rising levels of education.
 
radfordinlondon said:
I both agreed and disagreed with you both. You are both emphasising different aspects of the same thing but your personal emnity towards each other (and both of you have got a bit sucked in) is taking away from your more insightful comments. Tbf this dicussion would be more comfortable in a uni seminar room and is at least another case in point about rising levels of education.
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What that I said did you disagree with?
 
i am a tree said:
I don't know that you can simplify it that far.

There is certainly an element of fiscal mismanagement for sure, I think the Blair government should be held responsible for that as much as any other, but the consequences didn't have to be so extreme and and didn't have to hit all services simultaneously. The way it was done was careless (as in 'we don't care about the consequences for the poor') and ideologically so.
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This is not really fair, the most that the labour govt can be held accountable for is not being prepared and stronger regulation. They were not alone and regulation was always tricky for labour as they were regularly accused of being anti business.
It would be nice to say that person/organisation was responsible but the reality is always more complex.
 
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