Brexit and all that shite .... | Page 4 | Vital Football

Brexit and all that shite ....

craig214 said:
No my post was logical just not cut and paste like yours,
So do you think any jobs will be lost due to leaving on a less favourable terms than what May had negotiated?

Ill give you time to google
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I am sure some jobs will be lost as we exit, whether it is in a deal or no deal situation. As to favourable terms to what May has negotiated, what terms are these? I am sure you are aware that the document that is being discussed is the withdrawal agreement and has little or nothing to do with our future trading terms. This will only be negotiated after a withdrawal is made. We would like to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU, however this is not yet a done deal. There is nothing to say this could not be negotiated if we leave with no agreement in place. The one bonus in this scenario is that the UK would be billions better off by not having to pay a divorce settlement.

By the way if I was tech savvy enough to do a cut and paste it would save me a lot of time trying to explain things to you.
 
craig214 said:
What you voting for when you are out? If you leave and then go cap in hand for a deal they will be so tough on you.

All this nonsense the leave people was saying about the germans still have to sell cars to the UK and French wine etc so they need the UK as much as the UK needs them.

No that not true is it.

Lets use a Wigan based company as an example that exports to Europe. Say they manufacture carpet and there sale are 50 UK 50 Europe.
From March with no deal they cant export anything until a deal is settled. So in effect half the business goes, and so will jobs etc... But they will have been in an uncertain place since the vote as to what will happen

A french company with the same business and market share domestically and Europe of the European 5 percent may have been in the UK so they are only losing 5 percent. They can handle this. So they stop exporting to one country until the shit storm is fixed, unlike the UK they stop exporting to a whole continent.

Unfortunately jobs will be lost with out a deal
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Craig, you have it arse about tit. The EU are terrified, terrified about us leaving without any form of negotiated settlement. The UK is a net contributor to their project, they also have a trade surplus with us. Germany is tottering on the verge of recession and politically are in a state of transition. France is revolting and macron is on the brink, agreeing to budgets to appease the masses which puts him in breach of EU rules. I can't see either of those making up the loss of our contributions, let alone the 39 billion we agreed as a goodwill gesture.

Leave in its purest form and our negotiating position will be greatly enhanced. They will be begging for a FTA, that is if the institution survives in its current guise.
 
Made in Wigan said:
Craig, you have it arse about tit. The EU are terrified, terrified about us leaving without any form of negotiated settlement. The UK is a net contributor to their project, they also have a trade surplus with us. Germany is tottering on the verge of recession and politically are in a state of transition. France is revolting and macron is on the brink, agreeing to budgets to appease the masses which puts him in breach of EU rules. I can't see either of those making up the loss of our contributions, let alone the 39 billion we agreed as a goodwill gesture.

Leave in its purest form and our negotiating position will be greatly enhanced. They will be begging for a FTA, that is if the institution survives in its current guise.
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Not sure about the "begging for a FTA" MiW, however the rest of your post is correct.
 
Mighty Bongsmon said:
And therein lies the problem - different people voted leave for different reasons
Another poster has mentioned that no Brexit deal would ever get through because of this so that the govt should just have gone for no deal/leave on WTO terms - but plenty of people who voted leave didn't want that so just as many people would be pished off if they'd gone down that route

The decision to go in to a referendum was rushed as was the question put forward to the electorate - the question should only have been put to the electorate when it was known what leaving would mean (i.e. a type of deal/no deal/leaving on WTO terms etc..) coz without it it was only ever going to descend into farce because of the many different reasons people voted leave on top of the 48% who voted to stay - so version of leaving after a vote was ever going to be satisfactory to the majority of those who voted
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The decision was rushed????
The promise of an EU referendum was made by David Cameron during a speech in 2013 and it was later made part of the Tory manifesto for the 2015 election, stating that a vote would be held before the end of 2017 if the Conservatives won the election.
He won and the EU Referendum bill was passed through Parliament in Dec 2015 The vote was in June 2016. (I was pissed off with the affair by March)

The 'deal' could only be negoitiated if we voted to leave so, it was impossible to describe the precise terms.

The problems started with this was when parliament was allowed to vote on the deal. That made things easy for the eurocrats. My thought at the time were 'they'll love this - were buggered'.

I was fully behind Mrs Mays 'Lancaster House' speech. She asked for and gave, a fair number of concessions. Mr Barnier responded; 'The EU is not an a la carte menu'. At that point she should have said 'OK it's no deal'. We would have had time to sort things out such as custom brokers which are used on the Swiss border.... the Irish/Dover/Calais sorted........ etc, etc
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
If you have a couple of days to spare I can give you a brief introduction, however unless you are a bureaucrat I doubt you would understand, as I must admit much of it baffles me. There are websites available to read if you wish to learn more, however I would not wish them on my worst enemy, extremely boring and full of bureau speak.
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but you seem so sure, along with others on here that we should have a no deal brexit and start trading the following day with the world on these rules, so you could perhaps explain how that part of the WTO rules would work ?

Do you think the farmers of this country are going to accept WTO tariffs on imports from around the world.
 
pies'r'us said:
The decision was rushed????
The promise of an EU referendum was made by David Cameron during a speech in 2013 and it was later made part of the Tory manifesto for the 2015 election, stating that a vote would be held before the end of 2017 if the Conservatives won the election.
He won and the EU Referendum bill was passed through Parliament in Dec 2015 The vote was in June 2016. (I was pissed off with the affair by March)

The 'deal' could only be negoitiated if we voted to leave so, it was impossible to describe the precise terms.

The problems started with this was when parliament was allowed to vote on the deal. That made things easy for the eurocrats. My thought at the time were 'they'll love this - were buggered'.

I was fully behind Mrs Mays 'Lancaster House' speech. She asked for and gave, a fair number of concessions. Mr Barnier responded; 'The EU is not an a la carte menu'. At that point she should have said 'OK it's no deal'. We would have had time to sort things out such as custom brokers which are used on the Swiss border.... the Irish/Dover/Calais sorted........ etc, etc
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So you are saying bugger the people of Ireland then who are en mass scared of the thought of a hard border becoming a a reality.
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
Do you understand anything about this Craig? Your post makes no sense at all. You say they will not be able to export anything until a deal is sorted out. What about exporting on World Trade Organisation terms ? These terms are quite workable and would not prevent them from continuing to trade.
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Only one country in the world operates exclusively on WTO rules - yes, that global power house, Mauritania!!!
 
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Of course its correct but what is the impact on the UK on leaving? Not just Economically, but socially? Lost opportunities for Brits to live in Europe with out a visa, the UK to benefit from the skilled Dr IT people, builders plumbers and many many people coming to work there.

When you look at who voted what and where they live its the places like Wigan on the Whole that voted leave and the places with higher immigration that voted stay, aside from the usual places with high BNP activity.

That is an observation not a judgement. Hope to all that makes sense
 
hindleymonwafc said:
See what I mean about this thread...nobody will change their minds and Craig will continue to make no sense.
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But the point is people have changed their mind, that is why some are asking for a second vote, is that simple enough for you
 
craig214 said:
What you voting for when you are out? If you leave and then go cap in hand for a deal they will be so tough on you.

All this nonsense the leave people was saying about the germans still have to sell cars to the UK and French wine etc so they need the UK as much as the UK needs them.

No that not true is it.

Lets use a Wigan based company as an example that exports to Europe. Say they manufacture carpet and there sale are 50 UK 50 Europe.
From March with no deal they cant export anything until a deal is settled. So in effect half the business goes, and so will jobs etc... But they will have been in an uncertain place since the vote as to what will happen

A french company with the same business and market share domestically and Europe of the European 5 percent may have been in the UK so they are only losing 5 percent. They can handle this. So they stop exporting to one country until the shit storm is fixed, unlike the UK they stop exporting to a whole continent.

Unfortunately jobs will be lost with out a deal
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Your 'export' perspective is skewed.
For instance, we buy more German cars than China and America combined and then some!
We buy £2 Billion worth of fruit and veg from Spain.
These trades will carry on like everything else - both ways with or without tarrifs by the importing country. We could introduce a duty refund (similar as VAT refunding) We could zero rate tarrifs if required. And remember - there's no such thing as export tax.
 
I voted remain, and always would. I've always been a committed Europhile, ever since studying Economics at Uni. I was so keen on the idea of countries working together to make the most of shared resources, instead of trying to go it alone in an isolationist way, that I did a master's in European Policy. I find the whole European project exciting and for the future, thinking of my kids. Basically, I don't understand why anybody is against it. The opinion poll back in 2016 proved nothing, except how the mass media can influence such polls, which is why I have doubts about a second referendum....although that option would be preferable to 'no deal'....which would be catastrophic.
 
nottinghamlatic said:
Only one country in the world operates exclusively on WTO - yes, that global power house, Mauritania!!!
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I agree that Mauritania are a real powerhouse Notts, however we will not be exclusively operating on WTO terms as you already know, it is the UK's intention to sign deals with other countries throughout the world. Something we are not able to do at present. Also it should be noted that we can not be disadvantaged by the EU as they are also members of the WTO and must offer us the same terms as anyone else outside the EU who are trading with them unless they have a specific FTA or similar in place.
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
I agree that Mauritania are a real powerhouse Notts, however we will not be exclusively operating on WTO terms as you already know, it is the UK's intention to sign deals with other countries throughout the world. Something we are not able to do at present. Also it should be noted that we can not be disadvantaged by the EU as they are also members of the WTO and must offer us the same terms as anyone else outside the EU who are trading with them unless they have a specific FTA or similar in place.
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We already sign deals with other countries...just look in your larder or in Tesco's. Our biggest trading partner is the USA as a single nation...15% of our exports, I believe.
 
craig214 said:
Of course its correct but what is the impact on the UK on leaving? Not just Economically, but socially? Lost opportunities for Brits to live in Europe with out a visa, the UK to benefit from the skilled Dr IT people, builders plumbers and many many people coming to work there.

When you look at who voted what and where they live its the places like Wigan on the Whole that voted leave and the places with higher immigration that voted stay, aside from the usual places with high BNP activity.

That is an observation not a judgement. Hope to all that makes sense
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There will be an impact on the UK for definite Craig, however I believe it will not be as bad as some would have us believe, of course that is my opinion and I have no facts to back it up.

Regarding the Doctors , IT people and other skilled workers we will no doubt operate an immigration policy that is beneficial to our society, rather like Australia do. We will stop the influx of non skilled labour from the poorer countries of the EU who are flooding the labour market and preventing our youth from taking these jobs. If there is a shortage of labour this will force employers to pay decent wages to encourage people into these jobs, which in turn will raise them out of poverty.

I agree that it was Labour controlled areas like Wigan and Teeside that voted leave because these are the areas that felt disconnected with their politicians. The same politicians who are doing their damndest to scuttle Brexit for the rest of us. The reason that areas of high immigration voted to stay is because they are the ones that benefit from having low cost labour on tap.
 
TRUE BELIEVER said:
There will be an impact on the UK for definite Craig, however I believe it will not be as bad as some would have us believe, of course that is my opinion and I have no facts to back it up.

Regarding the Doctors , IT people and other skilled workers we will no doubt operate an immigration policy that is beneficial to our society, rather like Australia do. We will stop the influx of non skilled labour from the poorer countries of the EU who are flooding the labour market and preventing our youth from taking these jobs. If there is a shortage of labour this will force employers to pay decent wages to encourage people into these jobs, which in turn will raise them out of poverty.

I agree that it was Labour controlled areas like Wigan and Teeside that voted leave because these are the areas that felt disconnected with their politicians. The same politicians who are doing their damndest to scuttle Brexit for the rest of us. The reason that areas of high immigration voted to stay is because they are the ones that benefit from having low cost labour on tap.
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Places in Eastern England e.g. Boston voted strongly to leave.....these areas have high immigration for low skilled agricultural lmabour.
 
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