Brexit and all that shite .... | Page 2 | Vital Football

Brexit and all that shite ....

Hampton

Vital Squad Member
#21
We will, at best, get an illusion of a Brexit and frankly a disenfranchising of voters. The mood music now is for this and not leavers thought they were voting for per the clear position in the tory government £12m propaganda (sorry - information) leaflet.
Whichever way you voted or whatever party you align with if this is the engineered outcome then what's the point of ever voting again.
Also would love 3 rounds in a boxing ring with that weaselly little toad Bercow ?
 

Made in Wigan

Vital 1st Team Regular
#22
Corbyn is a child. An absolute disgrace of a party leader. He needs to some leadership, grow up and make himself useful to get us out of this mess. Bleating he won't work with the pm if she doesn't meet his demands is ridiculous.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
#23
Hold on a sec MiW....... I agree with your sentiment, BUT, he's not the tosser (or even one of the tosser's party) that got us into this unholy mess.

Yes, he could be the bloke riding in on a white charger, but let's not forget the mess of cockwombles (sorry, didn't know the proper collective name) who led us to this point in the first place.

By the way....... Well done Angela Rayner and Amber Rudd. Adult behaviour. Whodathowt?
 

jocklatic

Vital Squad Member
#24
Given Steptoe seems to spend every day in the commons asking for May to step aside, I wonder if she'll ask the same of him if his little charade fails?

What also gets my goat is all these selfies MPs have released grinning laughing like Cheshire cats queuing up to vote. They think it's a game and is quite frankly disgusting.
My thots to MiW...bunch of f@ckin school kids. One Tory mp even boasting on bbc2 on Victoria Live that he was drinking champagne at Rees Moggs house - absolute w@nkers when the country is so divided they f@nny about.
 

jocklatic

Vital Squad Member
#25
We need a clear out in our political system. The whole Brexit process has shown how unfit so many of them are to represent their constituents, country or democracy.

Even now so many of the politicians don't get why the Brexit vote happened and much of their behaviour since the vote pretty much sums up exactly why so many people voted against the establishment and wanted a change in direction. It was a vote for sweeping change and redistribution of power and they seem hell bent on keeping as much of the status quo as possible and so many continue to think they know better than the people who they are supposed to serve.

It's the foxes watching the hen house which means meaningful reform is very difficult. But Brexit (if it happens) needs to be the start not the end of the reform of our politics - but we've got to do Brexit properly in order to have the most ability to do that.

Nail on the head & spot on KDZ - But guess what, we'll get a very very watered down brexit & the MP's will carry on as if nothing had happened. Our biggest challenge to our country in Decades and that bunch in Westminster acting like school kids busy point scoring & playing party politics.
One MP I did hear speaking some common sense this morning on Victoria Live on BBC 2 was a chap call Jonny(?) Mercer - talked about how for best part of 2 years he'd been asking for cross party negotiations & nearly going as far as he could actually say without naming names that some MPs were far too busy playing party politics & self interest.
 

Made in Wigan

Vital 1st Team Regular
#26
Hold on a sec MiW....... I agree with your sentiment, BUT, he's not the tosser (or even one of the tosser's party) that got us into this unholy mess.

Yes, he could be the bloke riding in on a white charger, but let's not forget the mess of cockwombles (sorry, didn't know the proper collective name) who led us to this point in the first place.

By the way....... Well done Angela Rayner and Amber Rudd. Adult behaviour. Whodathowt?
I think holding a referendum was right, if that's what you mean by mess. The mess has been acting upon it.

As one MP has pointed out, Jeremy sat down with convicted terrorists without condition, but won't sit down with the prime minister to deal with the biggest political crisis of our time. He is a disgrace and unfit to hold office.

To be honest if he and I guess then by default labour won't get involved then they can't then complain about the outcome. To be fair Watson made an impassioned, articulate speech far far better than his boss (and so did Gove to be fair to him). I've said it before but if Jeremy and his merry band of cronies were ditched labour would be so far ahead in the polls the conservatives would be finished.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
#27
Come on MiW. Until now, they haven't been invited to get involved.

Watson and Starmer have both spoke far better than Corbyn. Between them, ironically, they'll force a softer Brexit!

Gove is a two faced tw@t, a contemptuous little shit of a man. Chancer.
 

jocklatic

Vital Squad Member
#29
I think holding a referendum was right, if that's what you mean by mess. The mess has been acting upon it.

As one MP has pointed out, Jeremy sat down with convicted terrorists without condition, but won't sit down with the prime minister to deal with the biggest political crisis of our time. He is a disgrace and unfit to hold office.

To be honest if he and I guess then by default labour won't get involved then they can't then complain about the outcome. To be fair Watson made an impassioned, articulate speech far far better than his boss (and so did Gove to be fair to him). I've said it before but if Jeremy and his merry band of cronies were ditched labour would be so far ahead in the polls the conservatives would be finished.

Correct..... Corbyn , MacDonald & Abbott out of the party & so long as the policies were right I'd vote for them and possibly a greater num we would also vote for Labour. He & his cronies are so toxic that it has damaged them against an absolutely atrocious, disjointed and split Tory party who should be an easy target in a GE.
 

king_dezeeuw06

Vital 1st Team Regular
#30
The talks of cross party cooperation are just the latest attempt by the pro remain MPs to try and water down Brexit into pretty much a BINO and call it a 'compromise'. There is no compromise to be had - hence why we had to have a winner take all referendum - Leave and Remain are 2 complete opposites - there is no middle ground it's a binary choice in or out. It's impossible to come up with a version of Brexit that will satisfy leave voters and make the remainers happy and neither should it expect it. A large part of the problem is May has tried to deliver a Remain version of Brexit (or should it be a Brexit version of Remain?) which pleases no one as it's the worst of all worlds. Any cross party talks wont make any difference as the issue is most of the MPs including May simply don't want to deliver the Brexit that the people who voted for it are expecting.

All of the Brexit problems can pretty much be bpiled down to the simple fact too many people involved in our political class, civil service, various instritutions who needed to carry out the process of leaving have never accepted the result and have tried everything except delivering on the result properly. May has been trying to pretend to be pro Brexit but her actions have been of someone desperate to remain as much as possible and leave as little as she can get away with.

The main things people voted for were pretty clearly - end of ECJ, end of freedom of movement, out of single market, out of customs union, no annual payments). Those 5 main red lines meant there was only 2 options that would fit with the EU rules and honour the vote - leave straight onto WTO or negotaite an a FTA like Canada, Japan, etc. We were offered that deal about 3 weeks after the referendum but May just conspired to take that off the table and bounce us into her cancerous deal which couldn't have been much worse if she tried.

David Davies was absolutely correct when he insisted on day 1 we must not agree to pay the EU any money or negotiate terms of any withdrawl agreement unless done in parallel with trade talks - as it destroyed our best leverage but May happily over ruled him and capitulated and that was the tone for the whole process.
 
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nottinghamlatic

Vital Reserves Team
#31
Well. Rees-Mogg has just shown why he's not been allowed anywhere near any negotiations.

The daft bugger has just told Andrew Neil that he'll vote for May (above risking letting in Labour) whatever the circumstance.

All May needs to do now is to work with Labour & the EU on a Customs Union, resulting in an even softer Brexit, whilst completely ignoring Jacob and his chums in the ERG.

Brilliant Jacob. ?
The softer, the better!
 

Hampton

Vital Squad Member
#33
For Corbyn leading labour see Mourinho leading united.
Stubborn dinosaurs with an out of date approach, no chance of winning and an inflated self importance thereby making life easy for their opponents.
Both events for the neutral are a hilarious act that never stops giving
 

Made in Wigan

Vital 1st Team Regular
#34
Yes, he did ...................... like the bloody Chancer that he is. All he did was kick Corbyn. Nowt to do with the EU. It was him putting himself in the shop window for when May goes.
Corect. But to be fair given the context of the debate was effectively May or Corbyn his kicking of Steptoe was fully justified. Personally I don't think either are credible leaders of the country and is a sad reflection of where we are when we are settling on the least worst option.
 

Made in Wigan

Vital 1st Team Regular
#36
The talks of cross party cooperation are just the latest attempt by the pro remain MPs to try and water down Brexit into pretty much a BINO and call it a 'compromise'. There is no compromise to be had - hence why we had to have a winner take all referendum - Leave and Remain are 2 complete opposites - there is no middle ground it's a binary choice in or out. It's impossible to come up with a version of Brexit that will satisfy leave voters and make the remainers happy and neither should it expect it. A large part of the problem is May has tried to deliver a Remain version of Brexit (or should it be a Brexit version of Remain?) which pleases no one as it's the worst of all worlds. Any cross party talks wont make any difference as the issue is most of the MPs including May simply don't want to deliver the Brexit that the people who voted for it are expecting.

All of the Brexit problems can pretty much be bpiled down to the simple fact too many people involved in our political class, civil service, various instritutions who needed to carry out the process of leaving have never accepted the result and have tried everything except delivering on the result properly. May has been trying to pretend to be pro Brexit but her actions have been of someone desperate to remain as much as possible and leave as little as she can get away with.

The main things people voted for were pretty clearly - end of ECJ, end of freedom of movement, out of single market, out of customs union, no annual payments). Those 5 main red lines meant there was only 2 options that would fit with the EU rules and honour the vote - leave straight onto WTO or negotaite an a FTA like Canada, Japan, etc. We were offered that deal about 3 weeks after the referendum but May just conspired to take that off the table and bounce us into her cancerous deal which couldn't have been much worse if she tried.

David Davies was absolutely correct when he insisted on day 1 we must not agree to pay the EU any money or negotiate terms of any withdrawl agreement unless done in parallel with trade talks - as it destroyed our best leverage but May happily over ruled him and capitulated and that was the tone for the whole process.
I don't disagree king, but to put the matter to bed and get out we need cross party cooperation to get it home. Sadly Steptoe, krankee and co won't even entertain it until their demands are met. Childish and shows them for what they are. If they don't wanna help they shouldn't moan about the end outcome. Simple as that.

The biggest mistake was appointing a remainer as PM. The negotiation strategy must be the most naive in history. As you say DD was correct. You don't enter into a negotiation showing your hand and vulnerabilites straight away, it's appalling. It's the same with trying to take a no deal off the table. If that's done what incentive is there for the EU to agree to anything? None whatsoever - they could demand anything they like. You have to be prepared to play hardball and walk away to incentivise. They don't want one, realistically we are trying to avoid it so it should focus minds on both sides of the table to get sensible. Of course I'm guessing that is the remoaner strategy to keep us in. If that is taken off the table it's game over, we will be in a permanent state of paralysis. MPs need to realise the referendum result was leave, they need to act upon it and get on with the job. If they don't believe in it or can't then they should do the honourable thing by resigning and letting someone else who will get on with the job. Sadly there is little to no honour amongst them.
 

king_dezeeuw06

Vital 1st Team Regular
#39
I don't disagree king, but to put the matter to bed and get out we need cross party cooperation to get it home. Sadly Steptoe, krankee and co won't even entertain it until their demands are met. Childish and shows them for what they are. If they don't wanna help they shouldn't moan about the end outcome. Simple as that.

The biggest mistake was appointing a remainer as PM. The negotiation strategy must be the most naive in history. As you say DD was correct. You don't enter into a negotiation showing your hand and vulnerabilites straight away, it's appalling. It's the same with trying to take a no deal off the table. If that's done what incentive is there for the EU to agree to anything? None whatsoever - they could demand anything they like. You have to be prepared to play hardball and walk away to incentivise. They don't want one, realistically we are trying to avoid it so it should focus minds on both sides of the table to get sensible. Of course I'm guessing that is the remoaner strategy to keep us in. If that is taken off the table it's game over, we will be in a permanent state of paralysis. MPs need to realise the referendum result was leave, they need to act upon it and get on with the job. If they don't believe in it or can't then they should do the honourable thing by resigning and letting someone else who will get on with the job. Sadly there is little to no honour amongst them.
I think the best thing now is for us to leave onto WTO terms and then when all aspects of the withdrawl agreement and Remain are off the table we can move forward with the FTA which ironically we will be in a vastly superior bargaining position to do once out. The EU can't afford to put tariffs on us without causing huge damange to themselfs, considering that Germany are on the verge of recession and there has been recessions forcast for the Eurozone in the next 2 years they are not in a strong position to cut off their nose to spite their face by deliberetly imposing tariffs on their second largest buyer. So they will want to still do the FTA out of pure necessity, so inform the WTO we are envoking their article 24 which locks trading tariffs at their current levels with the EU for up to 10 years while we conclude the FTA. Suddenly there will be no Irish backstop and no trap to keep us in and no payment to the EU for nothing. It will be a straight up negotiation on the end product not all the nonsense we've waisted the last 2 and a half years on. It's simply do you want to trade tariff free or do you want to impose tariffs on the massive surplus of goods we buy from you? There will still be points of contention and the EU will be after money for bits and pieces and in some instances it might make sense to give them some in exchange for something - but that's fine as long as it's reasonable.

The idea of 'taking no deal off the table' shows the either utter incompetance or more likely the deliberate attempt to sabotage the UK's position past the point of no return as if guarentee to give you them 39b no matter what - why would they move an inch on any negotiation? There is no way parliment will make any decision that will let us leave properly so i just hope that we somehow manage to run the clock down and until we legally leave. But i suspect they will move heaven and earth to stop that even though it's written in law.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
#40
Apparently, May is now changing her favourite slogan......
from "Brexit means Brexit!"......
to "Brexit means Brexit, but as no-one ever really described what Brexit meant anyway, we'll now define it as dipping a toe in the non-EU ocean, whilst still of course wearing an EU lifebelt".

Catchy.