Brexit and all that shite .... | Page 3 | Vital Football

Brexit and all that shite ....

Made in Wigan

Vital 1st Team Regular
#41
I think the best thing now is for us to leave onto WTO terms and then when all aspects of the withdrawl agreement and Remain are off the table we can move forward with the FTA which ironically we will be in a vastly superior bargaining position to do once out. The EU can't afford to put tariffs on us without causing huge damange to themselfs, considering that Germany are on the verge of recession and there has been recessions forcast for the Eurozone in the next 2 years they are not in a strong position to cut off their nose to spite their face by deliberetly imposing tariffs on their second largest buyer. So they will want to still do the FTA out of pure necessity, so inform the WTO we are envoking their article 24 which locks trading tariffs at their current levels with the EU for up to 10 years while we conclude the FTA. Suddenly there will be no Irish backstop and no trap to keep us in and no payment to the EU for nothing. It will be a straight up negotiation on the end product not all the nonsense we've waisted the last 2 and a half years on. It's simply do you want to trade tariff free or do you want to impose tariffs on the massive surplus of goods we buy from you? There will still be points of contention and the EU will be after money for bits and pieces and in some instances it might make sense to give them some in exchange for something - but that's fine as long as it's reasonable.

The idea of 'taking no deal off the table' shows the either utter incompetance or more likely the deliberate attempt to sabotage the UK's position past the point of no return as if guarentee to give you them 39b no matter what - why would they move an inch on any negotiation? There is no way parliment will make any decision that will let us leave properly so i just hope that we somehow manage to run the clock down and until we legally leave. But i suspect they will move heaven and earth to stop that even though it's written in law.
Would be my preferred option too. However there is no way the negotiation could be run so incompetently by accident. I just can't see us getting out without a proper leader in charge. Whilst I accept the mechanics maybe difficult and there would be a lot of work involved, actually the concept is quite simple. Sadly we have pussyfooted around for so long the issue has become so confused. I'm sick of the politics involved and the lilly livered MPs who think it's a game. They are a disgrace. By majority the decision was leave, so as public servants they should get on with what they've been tasked with.
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
#43
........... so I'm better off not posting on this subject at all.........
Nah ......... post away .........think of it as therapy.

Leavers & Remainers are united in thinking it's all a complete pile of utter balderdash (as JRM might say!)

Satirist writers would never have come up with a script so jam-packed with incompetence & cockwombles.

It's great.
 

Mighty Bongsmon

Vital Reserves Team
#44
no-one ever really described what Brexit meant anyway,
And therein lies the problem - different people voted leave for different reasons
Another poster has mentioned that no Brexit deal would ever get through because of this so that the govt should just have gone for no deal/leave on WTO terms - but plenty of people who voted leave didn't want that so just as many people would be pished off if they'd gone down that route

The decision to go in to a referendum was rushed, as was the question put forward to the electorate - the question should only have been put to the electorate when it was known what leaving would mean (i.e. a type of deal/no deal/leaving on WTO terms etc..) coz without it it was only ever going to descend into farce because of the many different reasons people voted leave on top of the 48% who voted to stay - so version of leaving after a vote was ever going to be satisfactory to the majority of those who voted
 

moonay

Vital Football Hero
#46
Stay & stay....... but I'm not sure a second vote is the right thing...... Unless its merely to decide on a deal or no deal........ In which case, I suspect most remainders would vote for the deal........ However shitty.

I'm looking forward to all these laws that are going to change that the EU have "imposed" on us. ?
 

Made in Wigan

Vital 1st Team Regular
#47
And therein lies the problem - different people voted leave for different reasons
Another poster has mentioned that no Brexit deal would ever get through because of this so that the govt should just have gone for no deal/leave on WTO terms - but plenty of people who voted leave didn't want that so just as many people would be pished off if they'd gone down that route

The decision to go in to a referendum was rushed, as was the question put forward to the electorate - the question should only have been put to the electorate when it was known what leaving would mean (i.e. a type of deal/no deal/leaving on WTO terms etc..) coz without it it was only ever going to descend into farce because of the many different reasons people voted leave on top of the 48% who voted to stay - so version of leaving after a vote was ever going to be satisfactory to the majority of those who voted
I disagree with that MB. You couldn't have all sort things listed on a referendum, i.e. I don't want of freedom of movement, but I'm happy with free movement of goods etc. It would be too difficult to enact as the EU say you can't have one without t'other. We tried to get concessions in the past and was told nein. So therefore it was a straight choice, all in or all out. It was a simple question. As such we should just leave and then formulate a new relationship with the EU.

The question of remaining should have finished on the day the result was announced and we should have moved on by now. All this talk of a people's vote is bollocks. Who do they think voted last time?
 

TRUE BELIEVER

Vital Squad Member
#51
I still believe they will try to split the vote by asking a different question. Brexit with no deal, Brexit with Mays deal, or stay in. The options will split the leave vote and let the remainers in through the back door. Devious B******s.
 

TRUE BELIEVER

Vital Squad Member
#52
Some interesting comments on TV today where they interviewed people in a Labour held seat that voted leave. They were asked if they would still vote Labour if the manifesto for a general election didn't specifically state that they would facilitate a Brexit. Many of them said no they would vote for whichever party guaranteed an exit.

Given that JC is still waffling over what to do, it could be interesting if we get an election and they still haven't made up their minds.
 
C

craig214

Guest
#53
Out and out. Any 'new deal' should only be voted on once we're out.
What you voting for when you are out? If you leave and then go cap in hand for a deal they will be so tough on you.

All this nonsense the leave people was saying about the germans still have to sell cars to the UK and French wine etc so they need the UK as much as the UK needs them.

No that not true is it.

Lets use a Wigan based company as an example that exports to Europe. Say they manufacture carpet and there sale are 50 UK 50 Europe.
From March with no deal they cant export anything until a deal is settled. So in effect half the business goes, and so will jobs etc... But they will have been in an uncertain place since the vote as to what will happen

A french company with the same business and market share domestically and Europe of the European 5 percent may have been in the UK so they are only losing 5 percent. They can handle this. So they stop exporting to one country until the shit storm is fixed, unlike the UK they stop exporting to a whole continent.

Unfortunately jobs will be lost with out a deal
 
Last edited by a moderator:

TRUE BELIEVER

Vital Squad Member
#54
What you voting for when you are out? Id you leave and then go gp cap on hand for a deal they will be so tough on you.

All this nonsense the leave people was saying about the germans still have to sell cars to the UK and French wine etc so they need the UK as much as the UK needs them.

No that not true is it.

Lets use a Wigan based company as an example that exports to Europe. Say they manufacture carpet and there sale are 50 UK 50 Europe.
From March with no deal they cant export anything until a deal is settled. So in effect half the business goes, and so will jobs etc... But they will have been in an uncertain place since the vote as to what will happen

A french company with the same business and market share domestically and Europe of the European 5 percent may have been in the UK so they are only losing 5 percent. They can handle this. So they stop exporting to one country until the shit storm is fixed, unlike the UK they stop exporting to a whole continent.

Unfortunately jobs will be lost with out a deal
Do you understand anything about this Craig? Your post makes no sense at all. You say they will not be able to export anything until a deal is sorted out. What about exporting on World Trade Organisation terms ? These terms are quite workable and would not prevent them from continuing to trade.
 
C

craig214

Guest
#55
Do you understand anything about this Craig? Your post makes no sense at all. You say they will not be able to export anything until a deal is sorted out. What about exporting on World Trade Organisation terms ? These terms are quite workable and would not prevent them from continuing to trade.
OK so why do country's all over the world spend decades, decades negotiating trade deals with countries. Aus China took 12 years. Just use the WTO one no needs to join Europe then or the Anglo american agreement or the american china one hey?

So you saying the WTO one means the paperwork prior to export is easy and will not hold the sale up, or the paperwork when exporting will not hold the export up? And the Tax they have to pay on importing the goods into the country wont put the Europeans off buying the stuff as you know have tax on top of the currency issue.

And importing stuff just got more timely and expensive, all these things will cost jobs. The Europeans will buy from other Europeans countries because it will be both cheaper and easier.

Sorry i had to spell it out at such a basic level bit i thought most on here would understand the need for a deal, as its on the news all the time.
The post made sense I cant help it if you dont understand the logic
 
Last edited by a moderator:

loudmouthblue

Vital 1st Team Regular
#56
Do you understand anything about this Craig? Your post makes no sense at all. You say they will not be able to export anything until a deal is sorted out. What about exporting on World Trade Organisation terms ? These terms are quite workable and would not prevent them from continuing to trade.

Can you tell us all what WTO terms are seeing as you are an expert and Craig's post makes no sense.
 

TRUE BELIEVER

Vital Squad Member
#57
OK so why do country's all over the worked spend decades, decades negotiating trade deals with countries. Aus China took 12 years. Just use the WTO one no needs to join Europe then or the Anglo american agreement or the american china one hey?

Make post made sense I cant help it if you dont understand logic
Many countries use WTO terms to trade. The other deals you refer to are generally specific terms being negotiated between the two countries involved. These deals are usually to mutually benefit themselves and to facilitate free trade by both participants.

The EU trades with many countries on WTO terms and also has some 50 other trade agreements in place. Should we leave without a negotiated deal we will then be subject to tariffs imposed by the EU if we wish to trade with them as they will have to pay tariffs to us if they continue to trade with us. We can set our tariffs to match theirs should we wish and as there is a trade deficit between us and Europe this would cost them more. However this would then cost consumers on both sides of the channel and is not what the bureaucrats want. There is however a silver lining for us Brits as the pound has significantly dropped in value and will balance out much of the added costs.

I understand most logic perfectly, however your post is so illogical I am unable to comprehend its content.
 
C

craig214

Guest
#58
Many countries use WTO terms to trade. The other deals you refer to are generally specific terms being negotiated between the two countries involved. These deals are usually to mutually benefit themselves and to facilitate free trade by both participants.

The EU trades with many countries on WTO terms and also has some 50 other trade agreements in place. Should we leave without a negotiated deal we will then be subject to tariffs imposed by the EU if we wish to trade with them as they will have to pay tariffs to us if they continue to trade with us. We can set our tariffs to match theirs should we wish and as there is a trade deficit between us and Europe this would cost them more. However this would then cost consumers on both sides of the channel and is not what the bureaucrats want. There is however a silver lining for us Brits as the pound has significantly dropped in value and will balance out much of the added costs.

I understand most logic perfectly, however your post is so illogical I am unable to comprehend its content.
No my post was logical just not cut and paste like yours,
So do you think any jobs will be lost due to leaving on a less favourable terms than what May had negotiated?

Ill give you time to google
 

TRUE BELIEVER

Vital Squad Member
#59
Can you tell us all what WTO terms are seeing as you are an expert and Craig's post makes no sense.
If you have a couple of days to spare I can give you a brief introduction, however unless you are a bureaucrat I doubt you would understand, as I must admit much of it baffles me. There are websites available to read if you wish to learn more, however I would not wish them on my worst enemy, extremely boring and full of bureau speak.