Brereton | Page 3 | Vital Football

Brereton

Apollyon said:
You dont get better by playing against lesser opposition
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Maybe not as a general rule but against lesser opposition he should get more chance to practice his finishing and general decision making which can only help his development particularly as he still gets to do it in a competitive environment.
 
Apollyon said:
You dont get better by playing against lesser opposition
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Nor will he get better sitting on the bench or playing for the under 23's.

Regular football out on loan will do him a power of good!!!! Why do all the Prem. clubs send all their fringe players out on loan? - it is to give them regular time out on the pitch!!

John Terry & Ryan Bertrand are 2 great examples of players that went back to their parent clubs better for it and there are hundreds of other players that went to other clubs which makes them the players they are today.

Going out on loan gives them a wide experience and if Ben is clever enough to learn from these different experiences then he could be hell of a player. I'd personally like to see him go and play abroad for 12 months - preferably in Spain.
 
redderthanred said:
Nor will he get better sitting on the bench or playing for the under 23's.

Regular football out on loan will do him a power of good!!!! Why do all the Prem. clubs send all their fringe players out on loan? - it is to give them regular time out on the pitch!!

John Terry & Ryan Bertrand are 2 great examples of players that went back to their parent clubs better for it and there are hundreds of other players that went to other clubs which makes them the players they are today.

Going out on loan gives them a wide experience and if Ben is clever enough to learn from these different experiences then he could be hell of a player. I'd personally like to see him go and play abroad for 12 months - preferably in Spain.
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I think the point that Apollyon is trying to make (not that I care one jot) is that the likes of Terry and Bertrand weren't playing regular Premier League football at the time they came to us on loan, so they would undoubtedly have been better for the experience.

BB has now had a full season of regular Championship football so he should be even better for that experience than if he'd spent the season on loan in L1/L2.
 
As I've said on a different thread it depends what our aims are next season. Are we planning on what MW thought this season was - stay away from relegation, develop players (though he got a tad too close to failing the first part). In that case we strengthen a bit, but develop Worrall, Cash, Brereton, Smith and Yates. If we are serious about getting out of this league (upwards this time!) we need to spend serious money, and develop some of the above elsewhere.

In a lower division BB will get more goal scoring chances to practice finishing , will play regularly, and will get a confidence boost. Here he isn't really ready to play yet.
 
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It's obvious that as I haven't seen him play I can't give a 100% opinion but from what I've read and heard about him he appears to be a youngish 19. It sounds as though he misses more chances than he converts and still persists with his attempts at diving. It seems obvious that he still has much to learn. Could be that he'll do better in a team with better players than he's had so far.
In any case he's worth keeping.
 
Agree with many and dont agree with others...the fulcrum of the subject is, what are our plans for next season. If promotion then forget BB, he is not what we need, if he can be there in 4 years time is also doubtful, so, send him on loan (to another less ambitous Championship team or an ambitous L1 team doesnt matter) and monitor his progress ... apart from physicallity is he any better then Walker? the latter was a flop at a relegation fighting team and I expect him to be sent on loan again next season... Fellas pls keep in mind that BB practically was the striker that played the most games from our lot ... how many goals did he score (bar penalties) ? ... just my opinion here...watching BB this season (and i watched all games), I dont have much faith that he will turn up to be the striker that many in here think that he will become .... I saw no improvement in his game ... no improvement technically and no improvement in his decision making and to make it worse his discipline on the field is not the best ... his attitude towards the officials is not what you expect from a young upcoming player ...
 
Lienking said:
As I've said on a different thread it depends what our aims are next season. Are we planning on what MW thought this season was - stay away from relegation, develop players (though he got a tad too close to failing the first part). In that case we strengthen a bit, but develop Worrall, Cash, Brereton, Smith and Yates. If we are serious about getting out of this league (upwards this time!) we need to spend serious money, and develop some of the above elsewhere.

In a lower division BB will get more goal scoring chances to practice finishing , will play regularly, and will get a confidence boost. Here he isn't really ready to play yet.
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Personally I would be a great shame if we abandoned introducing academy players into the first team and developing them for the sake of chasing promotion; I believe it is possible to finish top 6 by recruiting 3/4 quality players to play alongside the likes of Osborn, Cash, Yates and Brereton.

Our academy has been one of few consistent positives over recent years. Even when things got unbelievably bad under Fawaz we still had the academy to be proud of. It would be a shame to take the BD approach and start turfing the above players out on loan and have them nowhere near the first team.
 
AdebolaCornflakes said:
Personally I would be a great shame if we abandoned introducing academy players into the first team and developing them for the sake of chasing promotion; I believe it is possible to finish top 6 by recruiting 3/4 quality players to play alongside the likes of Osborn, Cash, Yates and Brereton.

Our academy has been one of few consistent positives over recent years. Even when things got unbelievably bad under Fawaz we still had the academy to be proud of. It would be a shame to take the BD approach and start turfing the above players out on loan and have them nowhere near the first team.
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That’s certainly not what I am advocating AC. I think BRereton could have a very good future but a striker is judged on goals and they have been lacking this season.

Whether we like it or not AK will bring at least one striker in and unless Ben hits the ground running a long spell on the bench or even in the u23s beckons.

A good loan could have him up and firing for the second part of next season.
 
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The problem now is that we can try to develop players, but we can't sit around and weaken our team for them. What happens if we wait 5 years and they don't get any better? What happens if they do vastly improve and then want to leave? History is littered with young "greats" who never got any better. The great BC once said that Gary Mills would pay for our new stand, and look what happened there! Evtimov seems to have got worse over the years, as did McGugan, Bopp, Thornhill and many others that I can't remember. Who was that USA lad who was going to be the greatest player in the world?
 
Lienking said:
The problem now is that we can try to develop players, but we can't sit around and weaken our team for them. What happens if we wait 5 years and they don't get any better? What happens if they do vastly improve and then want to leave? History is littered with young "greats" who never got any better. The great BC once said that Gary Mills would pay for our new stand, and look what happened there! Evtimov seems to have got worse over the years, as did McGugan, Bopp, Thornhill and many others that I can't remember. Who was that USA lad who was going to be the greatest player in the world?
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By that logic no clubs should ever try to develop their own academy players for fear that they might not turn out to be good enough.
 
AdebolaCornflakes said:
By that logic no clubs should ever try to develop their own academy players for fear that they might not turn out to be good enough.
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That isn't what I said though. We are developing Yates and Grant without weakening our team. We are developing Dowell for Everton. There is even the chance that we have already ruined Brereton by playing him nearly every game when he isn't ready. If you have two players of similar ability , I would play the young one, but the young player needs to be ready. As well as ability, there are things like physical development and confidence too. BB used to score goals for fun. A good run in League 1 might bring this back, but he won't get any better sitting on our bench, and I think he has proved he isn't ready to start here yet.
 
AdebolaCornflakes said:
I think the point that Apollyon is trying to make (not that I care one jot) is that the likes of Terry and Bertrand weren't playing regular Premier League football at the time they came to us on loan, so they would undoubtedly have been better for the experience.

BB has now had a full season of regular Championship football so he should be even better for that experience than if he'd spent the season on loan in L1/L2.
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Its exactly THIS +1

How much would it cost for you to post like this more often?
 
So hard for young players in their second season a combination of thinking they've made it being highlighted by opposition managers who now know what you are about and the drop of in adrenaline as the season wears you down all take their toll but they are worth bucketloads long term

BB got my vote for player of the season, he should not have had to carry anything like the burden he has and certainly not for a rank average outlet like ours for that and shear durability when up against it he got my vote.

As a player I think he is maturing what I think he has lacked is clicking with the players around him, we really haven't developed much in terms of combinations certainly not in the final third by any stretch

I think he will benefit more than any from a break and a new pre-season attention will be turned to others and he will be wiser for it he could very easily come good next season, I hope he does he works very hard
 
Quite right Mark2310. BB was picked on merit. Until we sign someone better the debate about shipping him off to learn his trade is redundant. The debate only returns if we sign two strikers and not sell either Velios or Murphy. I still feel we could see a different player next season as he develops. It is a wonder anyone develops at NFFC with expectations so high.
 
I think it's pretty obvious that the owner expects a promotion challenge next season. Unless BB has an amazing pre season, he will be on the bench next season at best. There is no way AK will be starting him otherwise. He hinted as much after one of the recent home games.
 
Polly 433 said:
Quite right Mark2310. BB was picked on merit. Until we sign someone better the debate about shipping him off to learn his trade is redundant. The debate only returns if we sign two strikers and not sell either Velios or Murphy. I still feel we could see a different player next season as he develops. It is a wonder anyone develops at NFFC with expectations so high.
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I think had he not made the first team and played the majority of his football in the academy or under 23's he would most definitely have been shipped out on loan.
 
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