Bollox about Ireland and Afghanistan | Page 6 | Vital Football

Bollox about Ireland and Afghanistan

loudmouthblue said:
The poppy has never been about fighting for freedom or a way of life, it has been turned into that since by others trying to make political gain, the poppy was adopted to raise money for families of soldiers still suffering 6 years after WW1 ended because the government of the day would not provide welfare.
The war had not been about protecting any freedoms, it was about imperial powers either wanting the status quo (UK/France) to remain, or seeking world power by nations desperate to have a slice of the wealth the Empire and global control was giving other nations.
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If you say say lad. Must be right if you say so.
 
Emeraldlatic said:
What a load of bollocks. Your government even apologized for the Bloody Sunday massacre. A march in nationalist Derry, of course there would have been IRA members in the crowd. They were not on active duty.
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Yeah that's how war works. I guess it was like that back in the 40's, too.

'Hey Sergeant, there's some German soldiers over there, should we take them as prisoners'

'No lads, they aren't on shift, at the moment'
 
loudmouthblue said:
The poppy has never been about fighting for freedom or a way of life, it has been turned into that since by others trying to make political gain, the poppy was adopted to raise money for families of soldiers still suffering 6 years after WW1 ended because the government of the day would not provide welfare.
The war had not been about protecting any freedoms, it was about imperial powers either wanting the status quo (UK/France) to remain, or seeking world power by nations desperate to have a slice of the wealth the Empire and global control was giving other nations.
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Origins of the poppy....

Within a year, Guérin brought her campaign to England, where in November 1921 the newly founded (Royal) British Legion held its first-ever “Poppy Appeal,” which sold millions of the silk flowers and raised over £106,000 (a hefty sum at the time) to go towards finding employment and housing for Great War veterans. The following year, Major George Howson set up the Poppy Factory in Richmond, England, in which disabled servicemen were employed to make the fabric and paper blooms.

I'm sure the 'Great War' was about protecting freedoms at some point otherwise vast swathes of countries would have been totally invaded...yes you can say they were protecting their Empires but also protecting their people much like the 2nd WW.
 
Another horror show from Sleepy Joe. I could barely believe what I heard. Stuttering and stumbling his way through reading an autocue then trying to answer pre submitted questions.

Claimed no country has questioned America’s credibity and says the opposite is true. The fella is deluded and a bare faced liar. The overwhelming consensus is it’s their biggest foreign policy disaster since world war two, they are no longer a trusted partner and this fella is not fit for officers.

Claims there’s no indication people can’t get through to the airport. Fuck knows what I’ve been watching on the tv news all week or reading about in news articles.

Body language is a wonderful thing and poor Kamarla looked distinctly uncomfortable stood there listening to that utter bullshit. It can’t be long now before this moron is stood down.
 
Made in Wigan said:
He even opposed the operation in Abbottomad to target Bin Laden.
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'mad', yes.

Particularly for the message it sends to China concerning the likely actions of the USA, should for example China annex parts of other countries, or islands near to Japan.

See also Russia's annexation of Crimea
 
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Made in Wigan said:
Trumps decision to withdraw was conditional. As we’ve established he decided to withdraw from Syria and then reversed it following reassessment. Bidens decision was unconditional- he effectively ordered his military cut and run in the middle of the night leaving behind huge amounts of hardware, weapons, airbases that are now in the hands of a barbaric group. There’s a huge difference between the two, so yes it is his withdrawal decision.

As for speaking well, did you hear his speech last night? Stumbled his way through reading an autocue, then declined to answer reporters questions despite inviting them. Unsurprising given the gaffs he made last time he took their questions. He said x, y, z would never happen - then days later it did!

This isn’t an argument of who is a better president; neither are fit for different reasons in my opinion, but it’s inconceivable given the deterioration in his mind he can carry on for another 3 1/2 years. Democrats need to put party politics aside and work out a way to get him out of office given the number of serious foreign policy issues that are now going to crop up and will require dealing with as a result of his Afghan withdrawal one.
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Must be a blue moon
I agree with everything written by MiW here.
Good post.
 
loudmouthblue said:
The poppy has never been about fighting for freedom or a way of life, it has been turned into that since by others trying to make political gain, the poppy was adopted to raise money for families of soldiers still suffering 6 years after WW1 ended because the government of the day would not provide welfare.
The war had not been about protecting any freedoms, it was about imperial powers either wanting the status quo (UK/France) to remain, or seeking world power by nations desperate to have a slice of the wealth the Empire and global control was giving other nations.
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jeffs right said:
If you say say lad. Must be right if you say so.
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Yet he is correct.
About the poppy and imperialism in the early part of the last century.
 
People just don't get it. The reason that JM will not wear the poppy is because to him, and many people from the Irish island, it has a different symbolism to them than the reason we wear it. He has tried to explain this but has received abuse from many quarters because of his belief. His retaliation on social media to that abuse is what people are mistaking as "his politics" and is, whilst not in my view acceptable, understandable.

Just look at the reaction of some posters on here! They are critical of his actions and yet are retaliating in a similar fashion.

If we had signed a German player from somewhere like Cologne in the years after the last war I seriously doubt that he would have wanted to wear the Poppy as the memories of what our air force did to his city and possibly relatives would still be raw.

In James McClean's case the memories are still raw and he has explained this. It will take a generation or two for people to supress those memories and to accept that things have moved on. I recently spoke with an old veteran of WW2 who will not shop in Aldi or Lidl due to the fact they are German owned companies and yet his children shop in both. As I have said in other posts, the decision to wear a poppy is a personal one,

I know some ex service personnel who also refuse to wear them due to their belief that the money raised has been misappropriated at times, something I personally have no knowledge of. Should we therefore be calling them traitors and terrorists, I think not.

James McClean is a young man, with a young family and the abusive comments from some posters on here, if allowed to grow and spread, may reach their young ears, and will then go on to perpetuate the troubled times in NI through their later lives. The way that hatred is passed down through word of mouth between the generations in NI is the reason that the IRA and other Paramilitary groups are allowed to function and continue their operations.

I am sure that if given understanding and allowed to leave his beliefs at home JM will be a valuable asset to WAFC and has indeed stated that it feels like home from home to him and his family. Why not get behind him and give him that support and put the troubles of the past behind us.
 
Sad reports out of Kabul that over 60 have been killed, including over 10 US marines in a terrorist attack. Many Afghans won’t be extracted before the self imposed deadline is up and those that have assisted the West will be hunted down and murdered like dogs. What a complete cluster fuck this retreat strategy is.

Over four hours since this occurred and the only statement is from the White House on women’s equality. I assume it’s a sick joke given there is now none for the Afghan woman. The incompetent, cowardly Biden has blood on his hands.
 
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I can't say I disagree with any of this ...except maybe the description of Biden.

He certainly bears some responsibility though ..... as does Trump, Pompeo and Johnson.
 
He has to own it. He decided on the retreat strategy and he refused to reassess the decision. He said last week the threat of terror had gone - and now this. He even said he couldn’t recall if he was told about the recommended proposal of leaving the small (4000 coalition force) in country to keep it stable. Couldn’t recall. It’s just staggering. He’s lying or being truthful. I’m not sure what’s worse

According to a Republican congressman The Taliban, yes the Taliban now have more Blackhawk helicopters than 85% of the worlds countries and about 85 billion (US dollars) worth of military equipment. I just cannot get my head around this.
 
I must admit, I don't understand the leaving behind of all that kit either. I get that it would actually cost (a great deal of) money to get them home, but surely, it's got to be financially worth it ... unless, of course, they were part of the deal that Trump struck.

As for him looking weak John, I've little doubt that the man had been shaken by the news. Wouldn't anyone be? However, all these idiots demanding that the US stay in Afghanistan, and take revenge are making the situation worse.

At least we haven't got Trump in there considering whether or not to go against his previous statements, wipe out the Taliban (who apparently may not even be responsible) and take millions of lives.
 
I think a lot of the armoured vehicles, nvg’s, body armour in the main were left for the Afghan army. The majority of the 600,000 rifles etc were just left abandoned in the airbases they scarpered from. Why these weren’t destroyed before leaving is puzzling, but when you consider the hasty retreat they made I suspect it wasn’t on their priority list - which makes the nature of the retreat even more puzzling. Effectively they’ve upgraded the Talibans Ak47s with modern weaponry. It’s nuts.

What is mind boggling is they left behind the biometric devices containing all the details of the Afghans they worked with. They may as well have left a death list. I find it unforgivable and whoever is responsible for that needs identifying, removing from post and prosecuting if the relevant legislation exists on the US books. Even handing the Taliban lists of people they want out I find unfathomable given a lot of them won’t have been extracted.

His statement last night was confusing. He mentioned targeting isis in Afghanistan. Hasn’t he forgotten he’s abandoned all the airbases and forward operating bases making that extremely difficult. Let alone the fact the intelligence network has now been disbanded as everyone has left so identifying who they are, where they are and what they intend doing next will again be considerably more difficult.
 
Made in Wigan said:
....., but when you consider the hasty retreat they made I suspect it wasn’t on their priority list - which makes the nature of the retreat even more puzzling. ...
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I get what you mean by hasty, but surely, the military have been planning for the move since the start of last year when Trump made his deal, and wanted to be out by May. Biden absolutely owns what's happened due to him not moving the Aug 31 deadline, but surely, plans were (to a degree at least) already in place.

Made in Wigan said:
....... What is mind boggling is they left behind the biometric devices containing all the details of the Afghans they worked with. They may as well have left a death list. I find it unforgivable and whoever is responsible for that needs identifying, removing from post and prosecuting if the relevant legislation exists on the US books. Even handing the Taliban lists of people they want out I find unfathomable given a lot of them won’t have been extracted.......
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Completely agree.

Made in Wigan said:
.....His statement last night was confusing. He mentioned targeting isis in Afghanistan. Hasn’t he forgotten he’s abandoned all the airbases and forward operating bases making that extremely difficult. Let alone the fact the intelligence network has now been disbanded as everyone has left so identifying who they are, where they are and what they intend doing next will again be considerably more difficult.
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It's coming out that the US have actually been supporting the Taliban in their fight against ISIS-K (or ISKP ....... but not ISI-X !!!)
 
I understand the retreat was accelerated by Biden and is why it was so rushed. They effectively up and left in the middle of the night from the airbases. Either way I just don’t understand why it was all left behind for the Taliban. In regards these I fail to see why these weren’t kept open and the evacuation done from there given they were more secure and had better defensive measures in place. Biden says he was told they weren’t needed - if this is true again it is a monumental error of judgment by someone in the military hierarchy and I hope is subject to an investigation to get to the truth of this. Seems like the whole administration and those they’ve selected in key roles are an utter shower.

Speaking of sensitive documents being discarded, I understand they’ve been left strewn all over the UK embassy containing sensitive information. Again it leaves me speechless as it’s gross negligence in my view. The ambassador needs hauling before a select committee to get to the bottom of this.
 
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