Bollox about Ireland and Afghanistan | Page 5 | Vital Football

Bollox about Ireland and Afghanistan

moonay said:
Wasn't reversible? ....... yet it was Trump himself who said that it wasn't.

Any road. the situation has now got to be managed. I'd certainly trust Biden's admin to do that more than Trump's .
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Not like you to believe something Trump says. He said that on Syria and then reassessed.

It was a catastrophic error by Biden and the consequences will be far reaching. For example Taiwan I suspect will be shitting themselves as with this idiot in charge the US won’t be coming to their aid if and when China decides to take it. Six months in and the administration is already a busted flush and it won’t recover from enormous foreign policy error.
 
moonay said:
"His catastrophic decision" ........ to continue the process put in place by his predecessor, the one which his predecessor said couldn't be stopped.

I agree that American intelligence seems to have been woefully way off the mark in their estimates of how the Afghan government and military might fare without US support, but to try and blame Biden seems myopic in the extreme.
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Myopic, no just a poster sticking to the script they have been given. That poster only has original thoughts about WAFC on here
 
jocklatic said:
I'll reply to ur post then leave it as Arthur_Itis has said going way, way off topic. I'll try n find the time to read up on some Irish history....I've not condemned JM tho was totally critical of his stupid & crass tweet / pic of him in a balaclava with his kids. I have however done a tour of NI & know first hand of the cowardly attacks on civilians & their attempted killings of the Army personnel by any means necessary. The British army had to observe all protocols ( & rightly so) whilst a so called 'army' acted with impunity & zero regard for human life.
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I'll reply to your post also and leave it. I spent time in the six counties also. As part of your preparation to go on tour were ye not told it was a guerilla conflict and you wouldn't be facing a conventional enemy?. I'm sure with British Army history you know what a guerilla war is? Or were ye told you were going there to finish the job King Billy started an an ex soldier once told me?. And I would also have suggested it might have been a good idea if ye read up on Irish history as part of your training before you came over?? 'British army had to observe protocols'? Did that included colluding with loyalist terrorists to kill innocent Catholics??
 
Emeraldlatic said:
I'll reply to your post also and leave it. I spent time in the six counties also. As part of your preparation to go on tour were ye not told it was a guerilla conflict and you wouldn't be facing a conventional enemy?. I'm sure with British Army history you know what a guerilla war is? Or were ye told you were going there to finish the job King Billy started an an ex soldier once told me?. And I would also have suggested it might have been a good idea if ye read up on Irish history as part of your training before you came over?? 'British army had to observe protocols'? Did that included colluding with loyalist terrorists to kill innocent Catholics??
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Wow, just wow.....I'll not post my reply on here to your good self nor will I be so condescending...PM sent.
 
Emeraldlatic said:
I'll reply to your post also and leave it. I spent time in the six counties also. As part of your preparation to go on tour were ye not told it was a guerilla conflict and you wouldn't be facing a conventional enemy?. I'm sure with British Army history you know what a guerilla war is? Or were ye told you were going there to finish the job King Billy started an an ex soldier once told me?. And I would also have suggested it might have been a good idea if ye read up on Irish history as part of your training before you came over?? 'British army had to observe protocols'? Did that included colluding with loyalist terrorists to kill innocent Catholics??
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Irish history and British history is one of the same.
 
jocklatic said:
I'll reply to ur post then leave it as Arthur_Itis has said going way, way off topic. I'll try n find the time to read up on some Irish history....I've not condemned JM tho was totally critical of his stupid & crass tweet / pic of him in a balaclava with his kids. I have however done a tour of NI & know first hand of the cowardly attacks on civilians & their attempted killings of the Army personnel by any means necessary. The British army had to observe all protocols ( & rightly so) whilst a so called 'army' acted with impunity & zero regard for human life.
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If 'The Troubles' is still available on iplayer, it is worth a watch, harrowing documentary series, that pulls no punches on all 3 sides (nationalists, loyalists and government)
 
daleks.at.the.monaco said:
If 'The Troubles' is still available on iplayer, it is worth a watch, harrowing documentary series, that pulls no punches on all 3 sides (nationalists, loyalists and government)
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Fuck me Ian ( not an invitation BTW ) but I think I'll give it a swerve. What do you follow up with, victims of Pol Pot ?
 
jocklatic said:
I'll reply to ur post then leave it as Arthur_Itis has said going way, way off topic. I'll try n find the time to read up on some Irish history....I've not condemned JM tho was totally critical of his stupid & crass tweet / pic of him in a balaclava with his kids. I have however done a tour of NI & know first hand of the cowardly attacks on civilians & their attempted killings of the Army personnel by any means necessary. The British army had to observe all protocols ( & rightly so) whilst a so called 'army' acted with impunity & zero regard for human life.
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I accept your point about JM, Jock. But to be quite candid, do you honestly believe that atrocities were not carried out by both sides in the "troubles".

As I have said I am not wishing to defend either side but I do believe that criticism of a man for sticking to his beliefs are misguided however offensive those beliefs may be to the other side of the argument. Comments that are being posted on this site are, in my opinion, totally offensive and misguided and are being posted by people who are not in full command of the facts.

Whether JM is a player we require at the moment and would fill a gap in the squad is open for debate, but to simply rule him out because his politics or religion upsets your views is bigoted. As far as I am aware JM has never expressed support for the atrocities carried out by the IRA but has admitted to his Republican and Religious reasons for him not wanting to wear a poppy.

None of this is a direct criticism of yourself and I hope you understand that, but other posters on this site should hang their heads in shame at some of their posts. JM has given an explanation for the reasons for his actions, which as I have said are directly comparable with the reasons some are taking the knee and others not, and I admire any person who is willing to have the courage of their convictions to stand up and be counted.

I would personally like to see him back at the club as a LB or wing back as I think that Robinson's inexperience was shown against Rotherham, however on the other hand if Pearce is fit and Robinson is on the bench I would also be happy with that situation as I believe Robinson is a talented young player who is one for the future.
 
jeffs right said:
Irish history and British history is one of the same.
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So in your opinion the history written and taught in English schools is the be all and end all.

Then I suggest you look behind the propaganda and take a look on the internet.

We were a colonial power and treated many countries citizens with disdain, the Irish, the Scots and the Indians will all attest to the mistreatment meted out by our forebears under their rule. Why do you think that all three countries national parties are able to garner support. It isn't because the English colonial powers were generous and kind, more so it is because we treated them cruelly and pillaged their resources for our own means.
 
daleks.at.the.monaco said:
Myopic, no just a poster sticking to the script they have been given. That poster only has original thoughts about WAFC on here
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Script? As much as it pains your tiny mind some of us are able to see and analyse the bigger picture. This catastrophic withdrawal decision will likely be the worst foreign policy decision made by the US and it will have been made by a cognitively challenged old man who is unfit to hold the office of US President. As former Defence Secretary Robert Gates said, Biden has been wrong on nearly every foreign policy and national security issue over the past four decades. He even opposed the operation in Abbottomad to target Bin Laden.
 
MiW, come on mate, be factual ........ I thought you were analysing that bigger picture.

As we've already established, the "catastrophic withdrawal decision" was made by the former guy ..... you know, the one who encouraged a riot at the Capitol building.

I agree that the enactment of the withdrawal appears to have been handled very badly, and for that, Biden has already said that the buck stops with him. (Did Trump ever take ownership for anything?). We'll obviously see the repercussions of this in future elections.

As for Biden being a cognitively challenged old man, you may well have a point, but he speaks with more authority, integrity, knowledge and wisdom than Trump could ever dream of.

Remember when Trump was saying that he could wipe out the Taliban from the face of the earth in a week, but he just didn't want to kill 10,000,000 people. Now there's cognitively challenged for you !
 
moonay said:
MiW, come on mate, be factual ........ I thought you were analysing that bigger picture.

As we've already established, the "catastrophic withdrawal decision" was made by the former guy ..... you know, the one who encouraged a riot at the Capitol building.

I agree that the enactment of the withdrawal appears to have been handled very badly, and for that, Biden has already said that the buck stops with him. (Did Trump ever take ownership for anything?). We'll obviously see the repercussions of this in future elections.

As for Biden being a cognitively challenged old man, you may well have a point, but he speaks with more authority, integrity, knowledge and wisdom than Trump could ever dream of.

Remember when Trump was saying that he could wipe out the Taliban from the face of the earth in a week, but he just didn't want to kill 10,000,000 people. Now there's cognitively challenged for you !
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Trumps decision to withdraw was conditional. As we’ve established he decided to withdraw from Syria and then reversed it following reassessment. Bidens decision was unconditional- he effectively ordered his military cut and run in the middle of the night leaving behind huge amounts of hardware, weapons, airbases that are now in the hands of a barbaric group. There’s a huge difference between the two, so yes it is his withdrawal decision.

As for speaking well, did you hear his speech last night? Stumbled his way through reading an autocue, then declined to answer reporters questions despite inviting them. Unsurprising given the gaffs he made last time he took their questions. He said x, y, z would never happen - then days later it did!

This isn’t an argument of who is a better president; neither are fit for different reasons in my opinion, but it’s inconceivable given the deterioration in his mind he can carry on for another 3 1/2 years. Democrats need to put party politics aside and work out a way to get him out of office given the number of serious foreign policy issues that are now going to crop up and will require dealing with as a result of his Afghan withdrawal one.
 
Afghanistan...one of many mistakes we have made in trying to go into a country & impose a democracy that they do not want. Such a shame so many lives lost to end up where they were decades ago. The Afghans have seen off almost every invader so why we thought we'd do any better god knows why. Think we need to realise that we can't be the world's policemen & some things are best left alone....imo
 
The vast majority of the withdrawal had already happened.

I imagine that Biden - just like Ben Wallace, our Defence Minister in his interview with Ferrari - was very emotional during that speech. Not answering questions was probably a good move, and one he'd be advised on.

I've little doubt that Kamala Harris would make an excellent President if called upon ..... but from every other interaction I've seen from Biden (the Afghanistan one being an absolute mind-blower) he's been exactly what you'd expect from the President of the USA, and leader of the free world.
 
We are a football club not a religious organisation or a political party.
Religion and politics are the route of all evil and should be kept out of sport.
One way to get around the poppy problem, is stop wearing them on football shirts.
We are a diverse community now with many religions and nationalities. Involving any kind of political thing in sport should be outlawed, and I include taking the knee and raising the fist in that. Its entertainment for fucks sake.
Music is similar, I love the music of U2, but can't stand Bono when he starts to preach, you are a musician you ****, play your guitar and shut the fuck up.
 
Jonnysking said:
We are a football club not a religious organisation or a political party.
Religion and politics are the route of all evil and should be kept out of sport.
One way to get around the poppy problem, is stop wearing them on football shirts.
We are a diverse community now with many religions and nationalities. Involving any kind of political thing in sport should be outlawed, and I include taking the knee and raising the fist in that. Its entertainment for fucks sake.
Music is similar, I love the music of U2, but can't stand Bono when he starts to preach, you are a musician you ****, play your guitar and shut the fuck up.
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So why then are we signing this fella who has made political statements out of the Poppy just to make political points. This signing must make you so angry. Why has he made such an effort not to fit into the diverse community we have.
The Poppy isn't about religion or politics it is showing respect for those who died giving us the opportunity of having a diverse culture and people of all political persuasion, religions, nationalities all lost their lives for that.
If we drop the Poppy then we should drop the knee taking which is a political statement.
By turning your back on a poppy on the shirt then this is showing the same disrespect as booing the taking of the knee. Bono is a knob totally agree and Bambi is a totally average player and not needed when we have players for his position.
 
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jeffs right said:
So why then are we signing this fella who has made political statements out of the Poppy just to make political points. This signing must make you so angry. Why has he made such an effort not to fit into the diverse community we have.
The Poppy isn't about religion or politics it is showing respect for those who died giving us the opportunity of having a diverse culture and people of all political persuasion, religions, nationalities all lost their lives for that.
If we drop the Poppy then we should drop the knee taking which is a political statement.
By turning your back on a poppy on the shirt then this is showing the same disrespect as booing the taking of the knee. Bono is a knob totally agree and Bambi is a totally average player and not needed when we have players for his position.
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The poppy has never been about fighting for freedom or a way of life, it has been turned into that since by others trying to make political gain, the poppy was adopted to raise money for families of soldiers still suffering 6 years after WW1 ended because the government of the day would not provide welfare.
The war had not been about protecting any freedoms, it was about imperial powers either wanting the status quo (UK/France) to remain, or seeking world power by nations desperate to have a slice of the wealth the Empire and global control was giving other nations.
 
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