Bit of Brexit info required. | Page 5 | Vital Football

Bit of Brexit info required.

toms said:
It must have been that overspend-nothing to do with Project Fear, the various hustings, the TV..it was the overspend I tell you

Come on man...you surely cant attribute the extra million votes to the overspend
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If it wasn't going to make any difference then maybe they should have kept it and not broken the rules and the law?
Outside the validity of the referendum question, what do you think should happen to those responsible?
 
in_the_top_one said:
If it wasn't going to make any difference then maybe they should have kept it and not broken the rules and the law?
Outside the validity of the referendum question, what do you think should happen to those responsible?
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They should be sanctioned proportionately in accordance with the law...I think one person in the dock potentially is a young kid. It would also turn on whether any wrongdoing was a mistake or deliberate
 
in_the_top_one said:
If it isn't free and fair with an informed electorate then it means nothing. Again you turn a blind eye to substantial, criminal cheating. :rolleyes:
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So before the police have looked into this, you have judged this to be criminal cheating. Are you the member of the CPS with the lead for this case? Im not turning a blind eye at all. Im simply saying that to annul the vote or even claim annulment is not the appropriate outcome for what has happened unless ofcourse you are a rabid remainer looking to over turn the result
 
in_the_top_one said:
Here is the Sun reporting on 300 no deal contingency measures including stock piling tinned food.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6747231/ministers-plan-to-stockpile-processed-food/
..and they think it is a good thing - ha ha! I believe hospitals are doing the same with various medicines because they know the lunatics have taken over the asylum.
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Surely you are not quoting the Sun as the gospel truth...what will the Lib Dem parliamentary party say about your little trist with a right wing newspaper!
 
Just going on a slight tangent we seem to have a lot of local MP's playing a big part in this. I respect Ken Clark, who is representing a remain voting area. I respect John Mann, who seems to be one of the few Labour MP's actually backing his constituents. I actually voted for Anna Soubry though, based on the fact that she said she would respect the vote, and the fact her constituents voted to leave. She now seems to ignore the Tory manifesto, as most of the Labour MP's ignore their promise to ensure that we leave.
 
in_the_top_one said:
If it isn't free and fair with an informed electorate then it means nothing. Again you turn a blind eye to substantial, criminal cheating. :rolleyes:
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If it was criminal they should be locked up. However the overspend was £500k, but I believe there still hasn't been a final ruling on this. There are rumblings that Remain overspent too. They certainly didn't cost in the speeches from EU leaders, various EU country leaders, and best of all flying Obama over. Of course the government know the rules and craftily sent out £9m worth of Remain booklets the week before the period that actually counted. This is 18 times the amount that you say invalidated the result. The reason that this didn't persuade everyone is that all the advertising in the world needs a decent product.
Anyone remember Aydes slimming aids!
 
The rules are clear; the rules were broken. Stop making false equivalence in order to justify your turning a blind eye to wrongdoing.
If you have evidence, submit it to the electoral commission.
 
RedBasie said:
Let's have a Second Referendum or Parliamentary Vote and put this Brexit nonsense to bed for all time.View attachment 27958
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I'm really enjoying this, and all carried out in a good spirit. Presumably the lady in the deck chair mode is Mrs May which leads me to make an observation. Over here we don't get a lot of detail, but there is some talk of what happens if your PM fails and secondly Johnson is regarded as being a bit of a joke. This is all paper talk of course but in the absence of other information folks do read the papers.
Don't stop now. :thumbup:
 
Old Red Fart said:
I'm really enjoying this, and all carried out in a good spirit. Presumably the lady in the deck chair mode is Mrs May which leads me to make an observation. Over here we don't get a lot of detail, but there is some talk of what happens if your PM fails and secondly Johnson is regarded as being a bit of a joke. This is all paper talk of course but in the absence of other information folks do read the papers.
Don't stop now. :thumbup:
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I see now that Messrs Davies and Johnson have bailed out & Rees-Bogg is waiting in the wings to put a spanner in the works. Another reason to scrap Brexit.__Capxcqi Brexit 098.jpg
 
in_the_top_one said:
The rules are clear; the rules were broken. Stop making false equivalence in order to justify your turning a blind eye to wrongdoing.
If you have evidence, submit it to the electoral commission.
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Why should 17.4 million people not get what they voted for because one bloke/organisation overspent. There is no proof whatsoever that they had any influence on the vote. I do the Guardian crossword every morning and read their news and views, but it doesn't make me rush out and vote labour/remain. If the electoral commission believe the result was unfair they would presumably rule on that.

It will be a shock leaving the EU, but if you can't escape after 40 years, how will we escape after 60 or 80 years? Carney from the Bank of England is saying there is £29 trillion worth of derivatives between UK and the EU (Despite 40 years working in Finance, I don't pretend to know how they work!). According to him the UK banks can withstand the shock, but many EU banks will not. The problem isn't Brexit. In a democratic world any country should be free to leave. The problem is the EU who are so bloody minded they will try to ruin us without considering the effect on the remaining countries, in order to try and stop other countries leaving.

Of course any exit isn't helped by our MP's. 60% of labour MP's are in leave constituencies (I believe), but only four of them are showing any interest in not sticking to party lines. Leaving should have been carried out by both parties, but labour are far more interested in just trying to bring the government down.
 
Lienking said:
Why should 17.4 million people not get what they voted for because one bloke/organisation overspent. There is no proof whatsoever that they had any influence on the vote.
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It turns us into a banana republic. You might as well say, "Why shouldn't the voting majority in Zimbabwe get Mugabe just because his henchmen brutalised opposition politicians and voters? Surely their votes are valid?"
Influence is influence. You must accept that money influences opinion and hence elections.
Lines have to be drawn somewhere and we have laws for a reason - to protect us.

On a separate but equally concerning point, the committee overseeing Vote Leave's overspend included Johnson, Gove, Patel, Raab, Rees Mogg, and so on. They knew about it and they went ahead anyway. (Or if you're being naively generous they were negligently incompetent.) They also knew that the £350m central claim was a lie and they knew that the fear mongering about Turkey was a lie. They pressed on for one reason only: because it was getting traction with voters. These people are now in charge and that worries me enormously.
So, we have a deliberately misinformed public who were reached using illegal spending. This is not free and fair. Those voting to leave on the notion of democracy should be hanging their heads in shame but they are to busy celebrating and shouting "you lost, very over it".

Yet another poll came out yesterday from YouGov suggesting that Remain would win a People's Vote - the type of vote as suggested by Greening. As facts emerge and lies dissolve (yes, even the exaggerations of a recession and emergency budget) the public slowly becomes better informed. I optimistically expect that public opinion will change in response to those facts and the polling data suggests that indeed it has.

Ultimately, when the "best possible Brexit" had been negotiated with Brussels - whether they are generous and innovative, or intransigent - we should be able to compare the options in front of us without the need for a crystal ball. That's just common sense.

This is a big deal, not a done deal.
 
Amusing tweet re resignation speech.
Health check: I haven't fact checked this:

"
Boris Johnson says "the pound soared" after May's Lancaster House speech. Value of pound on day of speech (Jan 17 2017): $1.24. Value of pound on day after: $1.23.
"

But he is certainly a serial liar.
 
You keep saying there are facts, but you haven't said what they are. Talking about the future we have very little idea what will happen. So what are the facts so far? Investment is down because of the uncertainty. We have a shortage of doctors and nurses because the government is controlling the wrong part of immigration, but we still had 90,000 more EU citizens arrive than leave. The government is incapable of controlling non-EU immigration too. Employment is at record levels. Unemployment is at 4.3%

EU unemployment is at 8.3% including 21% in Greece, 16% in Spain, 11% in Italy and even France has 9%. Youth unemployment is even higher, I believe.

We have an EU trade deficit of £90 billion in goods, £70 billion after deducting services, so we are supplying 2.5 to 3 million jobs to the EU, on top of how many of the 3.7 million EU citizens living in the UK we are employing.
 
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in_the_top_one said:
Amusing tweet re resignation speech.
Health check: I haven't fact checked this:

"
Boris Johnson says "the pound soared" after May's Lancaster House speech. Value of pound on day of speech (Jan 17 2017): $1.24. Value of pound on day after: $1.23.
"

But he is certainly a serial liar

I think you are a serial manipulator of the facts. The pound was trading at 1.20 at the start of the day...since main excerpts of her speech were leaked to the press the day before, there is a direct correlation. For an intra day move that is "soaring"
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in_the_top_one said:
It turns us into a banana republic. You might as well say, "Why shouldn't the voting majority in Zimbabwe get Mugabe just because his henchmen brutalised opposition politicians and voters? Surely their votes are valid?"
Influence is influence. You must accept that money influences opinion and hence elections.
Lines have to be drawn somewhere and we have laws for a reason - to protect us.

On a separate but equally concerning point, the committee overseeing Vote Leave's overspend included Johnson, Gove, Patel, Raab, Rees Mogg, and so on. They knew about it and they went ahead anyway. (Or if you're being naively generous they were negligently incompetent.) They also knew that the £350m central claim was a lie and they knew that the fear mongering about Turkey was a lie. They pressed on for one reason only: because it was getting traction with voters. These people are now in charge and that worries me enormously.
So, we have a deliberately misinformed public who were reached using illegal spending. This is not free and fair. Those voting to leave on the notion of democracy should be hanging their heads in shame but they are to busy celebrating and shouting "you lost, very over it".

Yet another poll came out yesterday from YouGov suggesting that Remain would win a People's Vote - the type of vote as suggested by Greening. As facts emerge and lies dissolve (yes, even the exaggerations of a recession and emergency budget) the public slowly becomes better informed. I optimistically expect that public opinion will change in response to those facts and the polling data suggests that indeed it has.

Ultimately, when the "best possible Brexit" had been negotiated with Brussels - whether they are generous and innovative, or intransigent - we should be able to compare the options in front of us without the need for a crystal ball. That's just common sense.

This is a big deal, not a done deal.
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So having spent the last 2 years not trusting the people with the vote, saying its wrong etc etc...you want to trust the people on a vote on a deal reached by a remainer pm by a remainer chancellor. Setting aside the constitutional crisis that would follow and further years of uncertainty and recriminations, the vote couldn't be about just the deal. It would have to be about the deal, the terms of reengagement with the eu and the state of the eu as things stand. As I have said (and which you did not answer) if the vote goes the other way and is very close , what then. Best out of 3?

If you want to destroy the economy, go right ahead with the people's vote because you are advocating uncertainty with no end. The issue will not go away and will only become more pronounced
 
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