Looks nice there! Been too busy watching the cricket at Notts.
Bit of Brexit info required.
- Thread starter Old Red Fart
- Start date
Looks nice there! Been too busy watching the cricket at Notts.
Old Red Fart
Vital Champions League
They are so good at it in Brussels that takes them years to close a deal...
Don't let the facts get in your way. We've got the highest employment rates we've ever had, despite the threat of no deal being there since day one. Guaranteed, both sides will put in place things to minimise job losses. The EU are just as awake to this as we are. I just don't think (with the exception of financial services where things may be a little worse) many people will. We will simply go to WTO and things will continue as normal. There will be contingencies in place. The BOE will step in and shore things up financially. Things may take longer and there may be investment uncertainty for a while.
This is the best thing for our country. Make sure you read the technical papers/notices to be released by the UK government in the summer so you are well prepared. Hopefully you will be able to understand them but if not happy to explain them to you
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic..._source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget
Ireland now thinks they can bully us! They say that if we don't allow their fishing boats in our waters they will stop our planes flying over Ireland's skies! Apparently they can't do that, and even if they could Varadkar (Irish PM) obviously hasn't spotted the fact that whilst our planes would have to fly round a relatively small Ireland only on the way to the US, their flights would be cut off from the whole of Europe !!
Would be interesting if we decided on WTO free trade and had no border control in Ireland, the EU would force Ireland to put a border up. Either way I don't want things to hold up trade there, but we should not be held hostage in the whole of the UK by the fear of Irish terrorists.
Interesting that one of the fears of the EU agreeing anything with us is that they fear we will have a competitive advantage over them.
Ireland now thinks they can bully us! They say that if we don't allow their fishing boats in our waters they will stop our planes flying over Ireland's skies! Apparently they can't do that, and even if they could Varadkar (Irish PM) obviously hasn't spotted the fact that whilst our planes would have to fly round a relatively small Ireland only on the way to the US, their flights would be cut off from the whole of Europe !!
Would be interesting if we decided on WTO free trade and had no border control in Ireland, the EU would force Ireland to put a border up. Either way I don't want things to hold up trade there, but we should not be held hostage in the whole of the UK by the fear of Irish terrorists.
Interesting that one of the fears of the EU agreeing anything with us is that they fear we will have a competitive advantage over them.
Last edited:
in_the_top_one
Vital Football Legend
Let's stay in the EU and receive:
A huge financial dividend now and guaranteed at least until the medium term WE WILL BE GETTING A DIVIDEND BY LEAVING.
Tbh, you lost me here. Utter drivel.
THERE. IS. NO. BREXIT. DIVIDEND.
More talented workers coming to staff the NHS. OUR IMMIGRATION POLICY CAN TAKE CARE OF THIS BUT OPEN OURSELVES UP TO THE BEST TALENT IN THE WORLD
We are already open to the rest of the world. Have you ever been to a hospital??
A bountiful harvest of fruit and veg that would otherwise rot in the field DITTO
Well we are struggling already so leaving can only make this worse.
Inward investment WE WILL NEED TO BE PROACTIVE IN OUR TAX POLICY. INVESTORS COME TO PLACES WHERE THEY CAN GET GOOD RETURNS.
Yay, we will be a tax haven!
Existing, valuable trade deals with most countries in the world negotiated from a position of enormous strength
?
No answer here? Thought you liked the idea of more trade?
Jobs, jobs, jobs AGAIN TO BE REPEATED
Is the tax haven policy going to fix this?
Being by far the most dominant voice in science and innovation within the most dominant group (European research dominates the us, china, etc, and we dominate within Europe) WE WILL CONTINUE TO BE EXCELLENT
We will but substantial damage has already been done and that will get worse. Many top quality people have left already and more are making plans to do the same. On top of that, it will destroy the collaborative framework of grants that has become the lifeblood of many institutions and created worlds leading innovation and research. You are dangerously blasé to day that it will continue as it was. In fact you're just dead wrong.
Strengthen our position as having the best universities by continuing to attract the best talent from the EU and RoW THIS WILL CONTINUE
Its that what all the voice chancellors are saying? No. But you know better.. Again, you are simply wrong. I see this every day.
Guaranteed workers rights WILL CONTINUE. WE ARE TAKING IN EU LEGISLATION
Environmental protections DITTO
Product safety guarantees DITTO
No. Our laws can be changed less easily, potentially eroding our rights, if we are part of strong multinational agreements. We know that certain parts of the government want to do exactly that. A "bonfire" of our protective legislation. Scary.
Independence from Donald Trumps protectionist one-sided deals
Frictionless trade with 550M people WE ARE TRYING TO ENSURE THIS HAPPENS. HOPEFULLY WE WILL GET TRADE DEALS WITH THE US TOO AS LONG AS KHAN IS KEPT WELL AWAY
Trying desperately to maintain what we have already? I know how we could do that! Trump wants to sell us chlorinated chicken and infiltrate the NHS. How do you expect this deal to work out?
No visas for holidays in Europe PROJECT FEAR MARK 3. A RECIPROCAL ARRANGEMENT WILL BE REACHED
Maybe but - NOT - under No Deal. That's what No Deal means. It means there won't be a deal. You should be shouting down the idiots who demand this ludicrous suggestion.
Cheaper flights DITTO
Ditto. Do you think we will negotiate air policy in the next few weeks? Maybe. But it will fail if No Deal is the outcome.
Reciprocal free healthcare in 27 other countries MOST PEOPLE WILL VISIT 1 COUNTRY A YEAR IF THAT. THIS IS IRRELEVANT TO THE BIGGER BREXIT PICTURE
I suppose whether it is substantial is ultimately a judgement but my opinion is that you are dramatically understating the consequences. More detail before.
A massive clamp down on tax dodging WE HAVE BEEN DOING THIS TOO
Hahahaha - good one. The only way we have been doing this is by drawing up the eu regs that will be implemented quite soon.
Churchill's dream of a trading bloc so integrated that conflict is unthinkable THANK YOU NATO. CONFLICT WAS NOT CAUSED BY US IN EITHER OF WORLD WARS SO THEY DONT NEED US
This is just to facile to answer. NATO can be undermined by any rogue US president. Integrated trade and relationships are far stronger and, importantly, are preventative. It is a bit late by the time you need to call in the war planes.
Big, revolutionary, multinational political thinking that has the capacity and clout to solve the really big problems such as climate change, atmospheric and oceanic pollution LOL. SURELY YOU MUST HAVE BEEN LAUGHING TO YOURSELF WHEN YOU WROTE THIS. YOUTH UNEMPLOYMENT, IMMIGRATION. THATS ALL IN NEED TO SAY.
Logical fallacy. Just because we haven't sorted ALL the problems, doesn't mean we can't and haven't solved other problems. It isn't all you need to say because you have not addressed my point that the world's big challenges can only be solved supranationally. In fact, you make the point quite well. This is especially true when you have to implement policy that is costly - as most are. We cannot pull up our drawbridge and unilaterally clean the oceans, the air, or slow man made climate change.
A feeling of diversity AND togetherness WE HAVE THAT HERE CERTAINLY IN LONDON.
It's good isn't it? More of this sort of thing - not less.
Freedom to travel, live, work, love raise children and be looked after in your old age anywhere between Portugal and Russia. MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THIS AND SO ACCORDINGLY THIS IS IRRELEVANT TO THE MAJORITY. THIS IS THE BEST COUNTRY IN EUROPE ANYWAY
Do you mean YOU are not interested in this? 1.2 million British live in the EU (mostly older and costly to the local health services). We brits took 45 million holidays last year, the vast majority to the EU. How many students are overseas? How many brits are married or in relationships with eu citizens? It certainly isn't irrelevant and we don't want to be thrown under the bus for your isolationist dream.
A huge financial dividend now and guaranteed at least until the medium term WE WILL BE GETTING A DIVIDEND BY LEAVING.
Tbh, you lost me here. Utter drivel.
THERE. IS. NO. BREXIT. DIVIDEND.
More talented workers coming to staff the NHS. OUR IMMIGRATION POLICY CAN TAKE CARE OF THIS BUT OPEN OURSELVES UP TO THE BEST TALENT IN THE WORLD
We are already open to the rest of the world. Have you ever been to a hospital??
A bountiful harvest of fruit and veg that would otherwise rot in the field DITTO
Well we are struggling already so leaving can only make this worse.
Inward investment WE WILL NEED TO BE PROACTIVE IN OUR TAX POLICY. INVESTORS COME TO PLACES WHERE THEY CAN GET GOOD RETURNS.
Yay, we will be a tax haven!
Existing, valuable trade deals with most countries in the world negotiated from a position of enormous strength
?
No answer here? Thought you liked the idea of more trade?
Jobs, jobs, jobs AGAIN TO BE REPEATED
Is the tax haven policy going to fix this?
Being by far the most dominant voice in science and innovation within the most dominant group (European research dominates the us, china, etc, and we dominate within Europe) WE WILL CONTINUE TO BE EXCELLENT
We will but substantial damage has already been done and that will get worse. Many top quality people have left already and more are making plans to do the same. On top of that, it will destroy the collaborative framework of grants that has become the lifeblood of many institutions and created worlds leading innovation and research. You are dangerously blasé to day that it will continue as it was. In fact you're just dead wrong.
Strengthen our position as having the best universities by continuing to attract the best talent from the EU and RoW THIS WILL CONTINUE
Its that what all the voice chancellors are saying? No. But you know better.. Again, you are simply wrong. I see this every day.
Guaranteed workers rights WILL CONTINUE. WE ARE TAKING IN EU LEGISLATION
Environmental protections DITTO
Product safety guarantees DITTO
No. Our laws can be changed less easily, potentially eroding our rights, if we are part of strong multinational agreements. We know that certain parts of the government want to do exactly that. A "bonfire" of our protective legislation. Scary.
Independence from Donald Trumps protectionist one-sided deals
Frictionless trade with 550M people WE ARE TRYING TO ENSURE THIS HAPPENS. HOPEFULLY WE WILL GET TRADE DEALS WITH THE US TOO AS LONG AS KHAN IS KEPT WELL AWAY
Trying desperately to maintain what we have already? I know how we could do that! Trump wants to sell us chlorinated chicken and infiltrate the NHS. How do you expect this deal to work out?
No visas for holidays in Europe PROJECT FEAR MARK 3. A RECIPROCAL ARRANGEMENT WILL BE REACHED
Maybe but - NOT - under No Deal. That's what No Deal means. It means there won't be a deal. You should be shouting down the idiots who demand this ludicrous suggestion.
Cheaper flights DITTO
Ditto. Do you think we will negotiate air policy in the next few weeks? Maybe. But it will fail if No Deal is the outcome.
Reciprocal free healthcare in 27 other countries MOST PEOPLE WILL VISIT 1 COUNTRY A YEAR IF THAT. THIS IS IRRELEVANT TO THE BIGGER BREXIT PICTURE
I suppose whether it is substantial is ultimately a judgement but my opinion is that you are dramatically understating the consequences. More detail before.
A massive clamp down on tax dodging WE HAVE BEEN DOING THIS TOO
Hahahaha - good one. The only way we have been doing this is by drawing up the eu regs that will be implemented quite soon.
Churchill's dream of a trading bloc so integrated that conflict is unthinkable THANK YOU NATO. CONFLICT WAS NOT CAUSED BY US IN EITHER OF WORLD WARS SO THEY DONT NEED US
This is just to facile to answer. NATO can be undermined by any rogue US president. Integrated trade and relationships are far stronger and, importantly, are preventative. It is a bit late by the time you need to call in the war planes.
Big, revolutionary, multinational political thinking that has the capacity and clout to solve the really big problems such as climate change, atmospheric and oceanic pollution LOL. SURELY YOU MUST HAVE BEEN LAUGHING TO YOURSELF WHEN YOU WROTE THIS. YOUTH UNEMPLOYMENT, IMMIGRATION. THATS ALL IN NEED TO SAY.
Logical fallacy. Just because we haven't sorted ALL the problems, doesn't mean we can't and haven't solved other problems. It isn't all you need to say because you have not addressed my point that the world's big challenges can only be solved supranationally. In fact, you make the point quite well. This is especially true when you have to implement policy that is costly - as most are. We cannot pull up our drawbridge and unilaterally clean the oceans, the air, or slow man made climate change.
A feeling of diversity AND togetherness WE HAVE THAT HERE CERTAINLY IN LONDON.
It's good isn't it? More of this sort of thing - not less.
Freedom to travel, live, work, love raise children and be looked after in your old age anywhere between Portugal and Russia. MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THIS AND SO ACCORDINGLY THIS IS IRRELEVANT TO THE MAJORITY. THIS IS THE BEST COUNTRY IN EUROPE ANYWAY
Do you mean YOU are not interested in this? 1.2 million British live in the EU (mostly older and costly to the local health services). We brits took 45 million holidays last year, the vast majority to the EU. How many students are overseas? How many brits are married or in relationships with eu citizens? It certainly isn't irrelevant and we don't want to be thrown under the bus for your isolationist dream.
in_the_top_one
Vital Football Legend
You can't do that.
http://livingingreece.gr/2007/06/10/non-eu-countries-visa-free-travel-to-greece/
This is dated 2007 but refers to things in 2012/13. US citizens, Australians, New Zealanders, Japanese people and half the world can travel to the EU without a visa. The US are in danger of losing this as they require EU citizens to get a visa to go there. I enjoy European holidays , but if they make it harder to go they will only shoot themselves in the foot. There are plenty of alternatives.
Fruit picking - agencies can organise groups of cheap eastern european labour, but are incapable (with the governments help) of getting any of our own unemployed, student summer workers etc to pick fruit?
This is dated 2007 but refers to things in 2012/13. US citizens, Australians, New Zealanders, Japanese people and half the world can travel to the EU without a visa. The US are in danger of losing this as they require EU citizens to get a visa to go there. I enjoy European holidays , but if they make it harder to go they will only shoot themselves in the foot. There are plenty of alternatives.
Fruit picking - agencies can organise groups of cheap eastern european labour, but are incapable (with the governments help) of getting any of our own unemployed, student summer workers etc to pick fruit?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...-border-checks-ireland-stop-pretending-issue/
This is a premium article, so you probably won't be able to read it. The UK can put up none or as little border control as they want. Ireland is saying there will be no border control. The EU has said there will be no border control, though they could be forced to implement one if Morocco or Moldova take them to court as it could be deemed unfair that one EU country accepts WTO goods, whereas other non-EU border countries don't get offered this facility. Presumably the EU lawyers would come up with some fudge agreement, as it would be rather ironic if the EU forced border controls after accusing us of wanting one!
1. There is a Brexit dividend which will be felt over time
2. There is nothing wrong with having an immigration policy based on skills, need and economics. The Americans do it. The Australians too. And numerous other countries. That addresses most of your points on people.
3. You are seeming to group tax haven with being tax competitive. Typical socialist. . What's wrong with people keeping more of their money and then spending that on products/
4. It will be up to parliament to legislate based on the manifesto of the party who wins. That is democracy.
5. Your obsession with European trade is incredible. Most growth is expected outside Europe. We import more than we export. Our market is incredibly important to them. We stand ready to do a reasonable trade deal with the EU too. Where do we sign?
6. The EU is a maker of its own problems with the poor implementation of the policies it has chosen to follow. Our opinion has been consistently overlooked. The EU will never reform. If anything they want more Europe.
7. The EU is itself protectionist. That is discriminatory on so many levels.
8. It is guaranteed that a deal will be done on people's ability to travel on holiday to see family. If you or anyone else is so concerned about not being able to live in a European country then you have a choice to make. Move to Europe or stay here. Its the same choice you have if you wanted to live over many other places in the world. Perhaps they will agree a suitable reciprocal arrangement
9. Nobody believes we should pull up the drawbridge. We will be participants as a separate country. This country should not be represented by an unelected bureaucrat from a different country
If a deal is not done, we go to WTO. Then we hope this focuses minds. Hopefully a deal will be done on each others citizens in any event and travel. But if the EU want to play silly games, that's up to them. We stand ready to give them £40 billion in return for free trade deal, reciprocal arrangements on citizens rights and an open border on Ireland. Come and join us EU in that ambition.
in_the_top_one
Vital Football Legend
in_the_top_one
Vital Football Legend
No there is no legal commitment to pay the 40 billion and as for the border a suggestion has been made. It's the EU's problem to come up with something that works.
As for the dividend there is clearly a dividend-we are saving money on our regular payments. We are net contributors. Its clearly not a dividend in the context of shares but in the end it will be a saving. We will no doubt pay the 40 billion over a number of years. In the end we will be better off.
If people spend more of their money corporation tax feeds through for the services you mention. I agree we need a robust HMRC team to enforce. Whichever government is in power will make our rules (which was my reference to you thinking we'd get rid of certain rights). That's nation state democracy. Just don't subscribe to a European political union. I'm sorry. It's just wrong to me.
The rest is you being an utter scaredy cat but then again throughout this 2 years you never thought we'd get to where we are
I really don't know how every other country not in the EU survives. Their people must be starving
Not found your report Toms, but this one is interesting.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...s-eu-referendum-leaflet-unfair-remain-graphic
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...s-eu-referendum-leaflet-unfair-remain-graphic
radfordinlondon
Vital Football Legend
Excuse me if I choke on a lecture about facts from a campaign side built on lies. If employment is so rosy why aren't people feeling better off? Why can't we fill our NHS and other positions?
Let's wait and see eh Tom's and see if we get a proper deal. I did read the white paper but what's the point when each new Tory fudge attempt cant last the strawberry season. Labour just as weak.
When project fear becomes project reality I think we are going to see a massive backlash against traditional parties all of whom are failing. Brexiters will become like John major voters- no one will admit to having been stupid enough to vote for it.
You make me laugh with your mealy mouthed assumptions about contingency. We had two years to plan but nothing but words. Not sure BoE is ready for more quantitative easing- the pound sure as shit ain't. If you understand everything so well maybe you could have a word with the PM and explain to her.
radfordinlondon
Vital Football Legend
As an aside, employment is 'high due to increased population. Number of FTE positions not nearly as rosy as you make out. Depends if you include zero hour contracts and part time work where full time work is wanted
Old Red Fart
Vital Champions League
Report in our paper today..........
Britain will refuse to pay its 39 billion quid divorce bill to Brussels if the EU fails to agree a trade deal, according to Dominic Raab.
Sounds like fighting talk, hope it's not misplaced.
Britain will refuse to pay its 39 billion quid divorce bill to Brussels if the EU fails to agree a trade deal, according to Dominic Raab.
Sounds like fighting talk, hope it's not misplaced.
