Another Dark Side of Football | Page 26 | Vital Football

Another Dark Side of Football

Did you mean rees mogg or someone else?

I’m certain we will do deals and be an important country in this world. I would hope that our future immigration policy allows you to properly resource your sector from around the world and would also hope there be proper investment to increase productivity and increase the skills of people to also allow your sector to flourish.

As for your bed and roses question and the time involved, this does depend on the deal reached or not reached as the case maybe. If one can be reached with a reasonable transition period, you would hope that the uk will not be far away. I’m confident a deal will be reached.

With respect you seem to be the one throwing your arms up in the air in panic. Lets see where we are closer to 2019. You may be pleasantly surprised.



 
Your quite right. I meant John Redwood, of course.
I don't think it invalidates my point though, do you?

Virtually indistinguishable. One ill-fated tilt at leadership in the past and one in the future, no doubt.

At least JRM has correctly called out David Davis as playing parliament for a fool. He may be many things, and indeed he is, but on the face of it he has a respect for parliamentary process!


Again your main point was, "it'll be ok. Calm down dear. It's only a Brexit". But you're stripping me of my rights, screwing up my work life, playing chess with my friends' families, riding roughshod over procedure, weakening the stature and strength of my country, denying opportunities and financial security for my kids, 'taking back control' into the hands of a small cabal of elitist fanatics, and presented zero evidence that it will turn out ok at an unspecified date in the future. And for what? The illusion of sovereignty (which doesn't exist in the form you want it to) and the right to kick out foreign people who we need and love.

The odd deal that happens despite Brexit when much else is being canned does little to satisfy my thirst for good news.

Will we muddle on with what we have? Yes, so long as you aren't already on the bubble of poverty. We're on a pretty solid foundation. But you are seriously underestimating the damage when you sweep it into comments like "short term pain" or "no bed of roses at first". We need solutions, not optimism. People don't have to die if we stay as we are but austerity is already killing people and many more will follow if dexeu screw it up.


Frankly, yes, I think it is approaching the right time to either panic or correct the mistake.

in_the_top_one - 16/11/2017 09:19

He's a despicable piece of work :
https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2017/11/12/british-lawmaker-advises-investors-to-take-their-money-out-of-the-uk/#5be0ed774c1e
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I actually have a bit of faith in Parliament delivering what parliament voted for in overwhelming numbers.

Jrm is a clever man. He is a strong brexiteer and sits on the Brexit committee . Whatever you think of his views, he seems to me to have a sense of duty.

The rest of your email puts the blame squarely on the shoulders of brexiteers with little or no blame being put on the institutions of the eu. It’s a totally biased diatribe.

But all of the things you have listed could easily be dealt with by politicians setting aside their personal self interests. Nobody is being kicked out of the country. Eu and uk National can be given a special status to travel between countries and study in different countries. We can agree a free trade deal. We can have a special partnership. All of this is possible. This is how other countries outside the eu work with the eu. These so called third countries maintain their sovereignty.

For me I just don’t believe in this European project. I think it’s going to morph into something amounting to ever closet Union. That’s not for us.

 
toms - 28/11/2017 23:12

For me I just don’t believe in this European project. I think it’s going to morph into something amounting to ever closet Union. That’s not for us.
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Ever closet union does sound a bit too cosy for my liking! The EU seems to have a one size fits all approach, which contradicts what has happened generally in Europe since WW2. As far as I know the two halves of Germany are the only countries that have combined. Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and USSR have split, allied with our own problems in Scotland, plus Catalonia, Belgium and regions of Italy. Very few people seem to like remote governments telling you what to do.

Regarding the NHS these problems clearly started well before Brexit. The NHS is expanding, but not fast enough to cope with the increased population and aging. ITTO it's interesting that you mention a midwife shortage, when 25% of babies are born to non-British born mothers.

https://www.ft.com/content/beb7831a-0b77-11e5-8937-00144feabdc0 Highlights the nursing shortage in 2015

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-staffing-numbers shows that staffing numbers are rising, but not as fast as the population.
 
Immigration subsidises the NHS. It would be worse without immigrants because a) they fund it and b) they staff it.
Our governments have been poor at redistributing the benefits properly which is why places like Boston feel unfairly put upon. They have a very understandable point but sadly lashed out in the wrong direction.

Can't believe you think Europe has grown apart since ww2! That's probably the most incorrect sentence anyone could possibly have made up. Gave me a good laugh though! Churchill wanted ever closer union, of course.


I'm on a lovely French train at the moment, thankful that eu pressure forced the telecoms companies to stop ripping off European citizens with roaming charges. But we don't want consumer protection anymore - it's just more bureaucracy and red tape for EE and Vodafone.
 
in_the_top_one - 29/11/2017 11:35

Can't believe you think Europe has grown apart since ww2! That's probably the most incorrect sentence anyone could possibly have made up. Gave me a good laugh though! Churchill wanted ever closer union, of course.
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I must have missed the bit where I typed Europe has grown apart, because I can't see it anywhere. It is clear however that countries don't like being ruled from some remote place, and there is an increasing backlash. Anyone would think we are the only country having trouble with the EU !

Also CONTROLLED immigration can be good, but it's clear that the uncontrolled immigration is having a major effect on the planning of schools, resources, wages, house prices, lack of investment in production because of labour supply etc
 
Lienking - 29/11/2017 10:36

[ITTO it's interesting that you mention a midwife shortage, when 25% of babies are born to non-British born mothers.
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How many of the 25% non-British-born Mothers are actually British citizens? At least provide some context. How many of these 25% are contributing to the system?

This line is the type of bile that the BF, NF, EDL and all other anal far right looneys spout. Remember that the biggest drain on our NHS service are white British born citizens. They same social group are also the biggest scroungers and benefit fraudsters.

But I assume that's all right because they are all white.
 
Bremen Tree - 30/11/2017 14:34

Lienking - 29/11/2017 10:36

[ITTO it's interesting that you mention a midwife shortage, when 25% of babies are born to non-British born mothers.
Click to expand...

How many of the 25% non-British-born Mothers are actually British citizens? At least provide some context. How many of these 25% are contributing to the system?

This line is the type of bile that the BF, NF, EDL and all other anal far right looneys spout. Remember that the biggest drain on our NHS service are white British born citizens. They same social group are also the biggest scroungers and benefit fraudsters.

But I assume that's all right because they are all white.
Click to expand...

So following several pages of well informed debate from both sides, you think that anyone who disagrees with unlimited immigration is a racist loony? Firstly have you noticed that the EU (which some of us dislike) has a much higher percentage of white people than the rest of the world that the EU shuts out, so your racist slur is obviously nonsense.



 
Lienking - 30/11/2017 16:53

Bremen Tree - 30/11/2017 14:34

Lienking - 29/11/2017 10:36

[ITTO it's interesting that you mention a midwife shortage, when 25% of babies are born to non-British born mothers.
Click to expand...

How many of the 25% non-British-born Mothers are actually British citizens? At least provide some context. How many of these 25% are contributing to the system?

This line is the type of bile that the BF, NF, EDL and all other anal far right looneys spout. Remember that the biggest drain on our NHS service are white British born citizens. The same social group are also the biggest scroungers and benefit fraudsters.

But I assume that's all right because they are all white.
Click to expand...

So following several pages of well informed debate from both sides, you think that anyone who disagrees with unlimited immigration is a racist loony? Firstly have you noticed that the EU (which some of us dislike) has a much higher percentage of white people than the rest of the world that the EU shuts out, so your racist slur is obviously nonsense.
Click to expand...

You are allowed to disagree with "unlimited immigration" and to say so does not indicate you are a far right nutjob.

The issue is with what you wrote regarding 1 in 4 babies coming from non-British born mothers is typical of the inflammatory statements that come from the far right.

For example 50% of those 1 in 4 mothers may be British citizens. If that is the case then it puts what you wrote in a completely different context. Unless of course the intention is grab attention/headlines. In which case non-British born sounds better. :36:
 
Whether they are British citizens or not is irrelevant, If they were not born in the UK, surely they must have migrated here, or at least come here temporarily. There are many areas in which immigration has been beneficial to us (particularly doctors) but clearly in midwifery it hasn't been. Of course you could also argue that it's racist to be stealing doctors and nurses from other countries, many of which probably need them more than we do.
 
Lienking - 30/11/2017 19:04

Whether they are British citizens or not is irrelevant, If they were not born in the UK, surely they must have migrated here, or at least come here temporarily. There are many areas in which immigration has been beneficial to us (particularly doctors) but clearly in midwifery it hasn't been. Of course you could also argue that it's racist to be stealing doctors and nurses from other countries, many of which probably need them more than we do.
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So you cannot say the make up of this 25% and it is irrelevant. They could have migrated here 20 years ago, contributed to the society. Apparently, it makes them more of a problem than than the chavs who breed purely for more benefits and/or a free house?

Thanks for the clarification :35: It is pretty clear what your stance is :36:
 
Several people are obviously keen remainers, but seem capable of debating their views. However if you can't see that immigration has both good and bad aspects it's clear you have very blinkered views, so any further discussion is clearly a waste of time.
 
Lienking - 30/11/2017 21:27

Several people are obviously keen remainers, but seem capable of debating their views. However if you can't see that immigration has both good and bad aspects it's clear you have very blinkered views, so any further discussion is clearly a waste of time.
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Who said I cannot see both sides of the equation. The difficultly is when during a debate baseless inflammatory statements are thrown out to justify a certain standpoint. This has to be challenged and I notice that you still haven't answered my initial query into your numbers.

I should have learned from the Merkel discussion that your views tend to be a generalisation that uses a 6 inch paint brush. Never mind it still makes me chuckle.
 
These foreign mothered kids are mainly from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh (although Poland has very recently risen to second place). How will Brexit help with that 'problem'?
The proportion of foreign mothered kids is broadly similar to the numbers of foreigners working in the nhs (slightly higher). The relative financial contribution of immigrants to the nhs is greater than that of the British.
 
David "Double D" Davis should be sacked immediately.

Incompetent, lying, "thick as mince" and "lazy as a toad".
Contempt of parliament, contempt of the public, contempt of the country.
:64: :64: :64:
 
in_the_top_one - 6/12/2017 14:58

David "Double D" Davis should be sacked immediately.

Incompetent, lying, "thick as mince" and "lazy as a toad".
Contempt of parliament, contempt of the public, contempt of the country.
:64: :64: :64:
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No need to worry because based on absolutely nothing but blind faith everything is going to be OK.

It is all part of the Brexit negotiations cunning masterplan.
 
Davis out!!!

(Toms will be here to defend him in a weird mirroring of Billy D at Forest. Perhaps he's called Tom Davis and related to both..)
:16:
 
in_the_top_one - 6/12/2017 16:33

Davis out!!!

(Toms will be here to defend him in a weird mirroring of Billy D at Forest. Perhaps he's called Tom Davis and related to both..)
:16:
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:19:
 
Bremen Tree - 1/12/2017 06:37

Lienking - 30/11/2017 21:27

Several people are obviously keen remainers, but seem capable of debating their views. However if you can't see that immigration has both good and bad aspects it's clear you have very blinkered views, so any further discussion is clearly a waste of time.
Click to expand...

Who said I cannot see both sides of the equation. The difficultly is when during a debate baseless inflammatory statements are thrown out to justify a certain standpoint. This has to be challenged and I notice that you still haven't answered my initial query into your numbers.

I should have learned from the Merkel discussion that your views tend to be a generalisation that uses a 6 inch paint brush. Never mind it still makes me chuckle.
Click to expand...

Bremen, I'm of the generation familiar with the use of a 6 inch paint brush, by the sound of it you'd be younger than that. But that size brush still has a use as does the opinion of a different generation, in this case older. Doesn't have to make him wrong though, doesn't have to make him 100% right either. It's all about opinions and often the answer could well lay somewhere in between. It often does and I'm old enough to know that.
I don't know enough about U.K. problems or Brexit to offer a solution except to say that it won't be resolved any time soon. But you'd know that anyway. :35:
 
The cabinet have not discussed the type of Brexit we are seeking to negotiate with Brussels!
Is that an assumption by the 'leftie' BBC? No, it's an admission by the chancellor of the bleedin' exchequer!
It's one baffling and indefensible admission after another now.


Dudes, it is not going to be alright on the night. Time to smell the coffee and realise that this is a power grab by self-interested extremists that has already caused us great harm and will only get worse. Better pull the plug now and reform the EU from within using the lessons learnt.
 
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