vinniecopenhagen
Vital Football Hero
Like us all, long suffering Spurs Fans PY mate. Lol.
Gary Onedaysoon
*Prediction Champion 20/21 & 21/22*
I did say exactly that about placing someone in front of Vicario after the Man City game.
I also said at that time that he's not comfortable commanding the 6-yard box generally and it's an issue that needs to be addressed.
My point about corners not being as big a problem for us as is being presented, was a reference to how we have defended corners this season generally (headers primarily), up until a few games ago when we were the only team not to have conceded a goal from one.
Spursex
Alert Team
That made me check, since being here he's won 51.2% of his ariel duals, which doesn't put him in the top percentile, so it's not terrible, but it's certainly not outstanding either.
It's topical because of our last 3 games, so it's not a problem, but if now every team go out of their way to do it and he/we don't fix it, it could easily be.
I genuinely think he'd be better for the team if Dragu proves to be good enough to push Romero into Hoj role as our new no.6 as he'd offer some genuine steel and midfield leadership, something we're still lacking., and where his aerial ability would be less taxing.
Spursex
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Tottenham might be great entertainers but Angeball has a design flaw
Despite Tottenham’s marked attacking improvement this season, Ange Postecoglou’s fun football comes with some worrying traits
Richard JollySenior Football Correspondent
9 hours ago
Tottenham were on their way back to London when they relinquished their title as the Premier League’s great entertainers; statistically, anyway. As Newcastle’s 4-4 draw against Luton took Eddie Howe’s team to 85 league goals this season – 48 for, 37 against – Spurs were demoted to second place. Scored 49, conceded 35, the numbers could feel an example of Angeball in action, bringing back the Tottenham way, restoring the kind of excitement their fans craved.
Actually, their games had the most goals last season, but too much of the entertainment came at their expense as they posted a negative goal difference from the start of November to the end of the campaign. Ange Postecoglou was brought in to provide a break from the recent past; that only three of the 13 players who featured for Spurs at Goodison Park in April started Saturday’s rematch shows the scale of the change in personnel.
Much of that has been at the back. A curiosity in Tottenham’s record, however, is that while each of their first-choice back five represents a success – most arguably exceeding expectations – their defensive record is undistinguished; had individuals not excelled, logically it would be worse. As it is, Spurs are on course to concede 58 goals, their second most in the last 16 seasons, if an improvement on sieving 63 last year. Those numbers could be still higher: they have the fourth worst expected goals against.
Which is one reflection of how well goalkeeper Guglielmo Vicario has done: another is that the World Cup winner Hugo Lloris has not been missed. Yet goals conceded from corners to Manchester City and Everton show the Italian’s problems when crowded and his reluctance to leave his line and command his box: Postecoglou can argue referees should not wait for VAR to penalise the goalkeeper’s nemeses but he is likely to face further hassle at set-pieces.
Meanwhile, Micky van de Ven’s remarkable recovery pace rendered him outstanding at Goodison Park and one of the signings of the season. Cristian Romero has had a couple of games of idiotic rashness but has otherwise showed more reliability to accompany his considerable ability. Destiny Udogie has been the third revelation while Pedro Porro can be found high on the division’s assists list. That each can play the Postecoglou full-back role – less inverted than inside-forward – means they are auxiliary attackers: if there is a chance to catch Tottenham on the break when each has advanced, perhaps that is a risk Postecoglou is willing to take.
The same maybe said of the goals against column. Yet conceding 26 goals from their last 13 games is both poor and porous. There are a couple of caveats: three came from Chelsea against Tottenham’s nine men on an evening of chaos, others when Postecoglou’s back four comprised a quartet of full-backs. With Radu Dragusin signed, a repeat of that idiosyncratic selection is unlikely. Spurs may hope the opening 10 matches, when the axis of Van de Ven and Romero was intact, when they were only breached nine times, is a sign of their capabilities.
Yet there are other damning details. Tottenham have conceded eight 90th-minute or injury-time goals already this season: it could have been more with Everton – in December – and Brentford almost adding others. That they have also scored a host of late goals suggests it is not as simple as attributing them to fitness alone.
The issue is not just the number or the manner but the damage inflicted, with 18 points lost from winning positions. It suggests Spurs can struggle to control games and shut them down. At times, amid injuries and suspensions, Postecoglou has lacked strength in depth but he had a better bench than Sean Dyche on Saturday. Collectively, it raises questions about game management; perhaps about a manager whose attacking ethos has endeared him to many.
But there may be a design flaw with Angeball. Postecoglou flourished with Yokohama F Marinos in Japan but, in each season, the team’s finishing position was better than their place in the defensive charts. His Celtic conceded 30 goals in 12 group-stage games in Europe; as 15 of them were in the Europa League, that record may be still worse than it seems.
He was not hired to be a defensive strategist; arguably Jose Mourinho and Antonio Conte were and, albeit after getting worse when the Italian talked himself out of a job, Spurs still ended up conceding 63 times last season.
Postecoglou feels a truer fit for Tottenham’s traditions. But a pragmatic look at Premier League history shows that teams who concede a half-century of goals rarely finish in the top four.
There are occasional exceptions – Frank Lampard’s Chelsea in 2019-20, Brendan Rodgers’ Liverpool in 2013-14, Bobby Robson’s Newcastle in 2001-02 – but even they did not let in 58 goals. So for Postecoglou, the task may now be to make Tottenham a little duller, to leave some of the entertainment to others.
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Spursex
Alert Team
Tottenham suffer late on again
Richarlison made history in the early game at Goodison Park, becoming the first player to score home and away against Everton in a single Premier League season, having previously played for the Toffees in the competition. Getting two goals in total, Richarlison continued his fine run in the Premier League which has seen him score more goals than any other player since the start of December (nine).
The Brazilian also has knack of scoring big goals away from home. Thirteen of his last 14 away Premier League goals have either drawn his side level (four) or put them one goal ahead (nine) and he looked set to be steering them to victory on Saturday.
Unfortunately, Tottenham conceded in second half injury time, and fans may have seen it coming. T
Tottenham, have now conceded eight goals in the 90th minute this season, more than any other side in the Premier League this season and their most in a single campaign in the competition.
They have also lost 18 points from winning positions in the Premier League this season, with only Brentford (23) and Nottingham Forest (19) losing more.
Real Deal
Alert Team
Adapt or Perish. A line I was given in the 90s.
Pompey Yid
Vital Champions League
How long before the "Angie out" brigade start?
7months in charge.
A breath of fresh air!
A Rookie, Yes! he is learning!
The team/squad is in rebuild.
The ream/squad is learning.
2 TW's, not to bad, time is required.
Bringing in New faces/players to suit the new regime.
This season...a bloody rollercoaster, yes it is.
The expectations of him and the squad is bloody rediculous!
In Angie I trust, give him the space and time required. COYS
7months in charge.
A breath of fresh air!
A Rookie, Yes! he is learning!
The team/squad is in rebuild.
The ream/squad is learning.
2 TW's, not to bad, time is required.
Bringing in New faces/players to suit the new regime.
This season...a bloody rollercoaster, yes it is.
The expectations of him and the squad is bloody rediculous!
In Angie I trust, give him the space and time required. COYS
Don't get me wrong Pomp, I'm not in the "Ach out" brigade, I just don't see the long-term result/performance that we all want restored from yester-year....
Pompey Yid
Vital Champions League
I am going to say this, I am enjoying the season thus far as in it being a rollercoaster ride, lol!, as was predicted at the start, some will say I am easily pleased but you would be so wrong!
Yes there has been smiles and the grimaces, but Jesus wept! for me it is a hell of a lot better than the last couple of seasons.
I will go further and say, lessons are being learnt, by both Angie and the players, lets be honest if lessons are not being learnt then something is very wrong in their minds.
Mind every player being 100% fit would go a long way to help!
There is a complete change of mindset at THFC, to see what we will become will and does take time.
With situations like this, there will always be bumps in the road and set backs, it was always going to be 1 step forward 2 steps back, that is called rebuilding.
So come all of you out there get behind the Team and players.
Angie to a degree has given us our Spurs back, well nearly but we will get there.
Keep up the good work me ole Cobber mate, I am as others behind you. COYS
Yes there has been smiles and the grimaces, but Jesus wept! for me it is a hell of a lot better than the last couple of seasons.
I will go further and say, lessons are being learnt, by both Angie and the players, lets be honest if lessons are not being learnt then something is very wrong in their minds.
Mind every player being 100% fit would go a long way to help!
There is a complete change of mindset at THFC, to see what we will become will and does take time.
With situations like this, there will always be bumps in the road and set backs, it was always going to be 1 step forward 2 steps back, that is called rebuilding.
So come all of you out there get behind the Team and players.
Angie to a degree has given us our Spurs back, well nearly but we will get there.
Keep up the good work me ole Cobber mate, I am as others behind you. COYS
Spur1882
Vital Reserves Team
Funny how a lot of the comments on this forum mirror those on one of the Celtic supporters forum regarding Ange. These are just some of the comments made about Ange and his football philosophy 3 months into his tenure at Celtic, Sep 2021. These are copied and pasted word for word:
"It’s clear to me that it’s a major bonus going forward, and getting a grip in midfield and allowing guys like Turnbull and Rogic to be in the positions they need to be in. However, it makes us very vulnerable to the counter down the wings. Is the pay off going forward worth it? I * enjoy watching it but it does effect us going the other way. Is the trade off good enough so far?"
"Yeah we can agree it's exciting to watch but would like the manager to be more tactical aware as we could have taken something from the game if we had tighten things up after going 2-0 up and for anyone saying the manager won't do that then we could be in for a bumpy season if we were to draw 3-3 with Livingston on Sunday be great game for a neutral but we aren't neutral and a scrappy 1-0 would do me"
"Think he’s won the fans over for now, we’re on his side. Both because he’s shown some very exciting football in a quick turnaround from last year and how frank he is in interviews. No bullshit will win * over more than anything"
"Its a good ploy, gives us loads of options and pulls the press from opposite team's all over the place. Were vulnerable to a counter if we dont keep the ball especially up the park in the last 3rd.
I would personally stick with it tbh. To help the two center halfs out, you really want a CDM dropping in between the 2 centre backs push them out 10 yrds wider. That would cover the counter."
"What i would like to see is if we play with inverted full backs is whoever plays CDM when the full backs attack they drop back and effectively giving us a back three so that the cbs can spread a little wider covering more of the wide area, know it would create a little more space through the middle but thats why you have a sweeper keeper , think this would give us a little more protection and cut out more free space in the wide areas. I understand that could still be played through but it would have to be a right good pass."
Personally, I think that unbeaten run at the beginning of the season has given a section of our fan base an expectation that we should be finishing top 4 and winning a trophy. Couple that with the fact that the mob down the road are doing so well, and the frustrations start to fester. What we need now is patience. Another 1-2 trade windows. Has Ange made mistakes? Yes, but this is not his first rodeo. I know some will make reference of the PL being a different beast to SPL, J-League, A-League. Given all that he's had to deal with, losing Kane, injuries, unavailability of players to AFCON, Asian Cup, the pressures of managing in the PL for the first time, and despite his tactical flaws - we still sit in 5th position. He's often called naive by fans and journalists, but as the comments above by Celtic supporters shows - he's been through this before, and he's sorted it out. Is he a perfect manager? No. Is he perfect for us? Time will tell. Let's just hope that he's given that time. We still have dross to offload, decent players to bring in, and we haven't clicked defensively (or for that matter offensively) as yet.
"It’s clear to me that it’s a major bonus going forward, and getting a grip in midfield and allowing guys like Turnbull and Rogic to be in the positions they need to be in. However, it makes us very vulnerable to the counter down the wings. Is the pay off going forward worth it? I * enjoy watching it but it does effect us going the other way. Is the trade off good enough so far?"
"Yeah we can agree it's exciting to watch but would like the manager to be more tactical aware as we could have taken something from the game if we had tighten things up after going 2-0 up and for anyone saying the manager won't do that then we could be in for a bumpy season if we were to draw 3-3 with Livingston on Sunday be great game for a neutral but we aren't neutral and a scrappy 1-0 would do me"
"Think he’s won the fans over for now, we’re on his side. Both because he’s shown some very exciting football in a quick turnaround from last year and how frank he is in interviews. No bullshit will win * over more than anything"
"Its a good ploy, gives us loads of options and pulls the press from opposite team's all over the place. Were vulnerable to a counter if we dont keep the ball especially up the park in the last 3rd.
I would personally stick with it tbh. To help the two center halfs out, you really want a CDM dropping in between the 2 centre backs push them out 10 yrds wider. That would cover the counter."
"What i would like to see is if we play with inverted full backs is whoever plays CDM when the full backs attack they drop back and effectively giving us a back three so that the cbs can spread a little wider covering more of the wide area, know it would create a little more space through the middle but thats why you have a sweeper keeper , think this would give us a little more protection and cut out more free space in the wide areas. I understand that could still be played through but it would have to be a right good pass."
Personally, I think that unbeaten run at the beginning of the season has given a section of our fan base an expectation that we should be finishing top 4 and winning a trophy. Couple that with the fact that the mob down the road are doing so well, and the frustrations start to fester. What we need now is patience. Another 1-2 trade windows. Has Ange made mistakes? Yes, but this is not his first rodeo. I know some will make reference of the PL being a different beast to SPL, J-League, A-League. Given all that he's had to deal with, losing Kane, injuries, unavailability of players to AFCON, Asian Cup, the pressures of managing in the PL for the first time, and despite his tactical flaws - we still sit in 5th position. He's often called naive by fans and journalists, but as the comments above by Celtic supporters shows - he's been through this before, and he's sorted it out. Is he a perfect manager? No. Is he perfect for us? Time will tell. Let's just hope that he's given that time. We still have dross to offload, decent players to bring in, and we haven't clicked defensively (or for that matter offensively) as yet.
muttley
Alert Team
Great post. Thanks for digging up these insights.
It would be great to know what tactical transitions he made during his Celtic tenure. Did he start playing one way at the beginning and then evolve it into something different as time went on?
I've really enjoyed how Pep keeps re-inventing the City tactics every season especially what he did with John Stones last year. It's like he never wants the other managers to negates his tactics so he keeps tweaking them with his players. That's where I'd like us to be with Ange.
Spur1882
Vital Reserves Team
Thanks Mutts. I guess the point I was trying to make is that the Celtic supporters were seeing the same thing and making the same comments as our supporters are doing now - his style of play leaves us open defensively, we should close out games when we’re ahead instead of continuing to press high. I’m pretty sure all the other managers in the SPL saw this and tried to exploit this tactic, just as we’re all saying that other teams in the PL have found him out. Yet, he was able to fix their defensive woes and with a turnaround of new players won the treble within 2 yrs. I think he’s still assessing what these players are capable of and the only way he can do that is in proper games, not on the training pitch. He’ll sort it out soon enough, especially if he gets the backing of the club during the next couple of trade windows. He needs to be given time.
Pompey Yid
Vital Champions League
82 your last 2 sentences starting "he'll sort it out" is exactly what I tried to say in another thread.
Very good post earlier by the way. COYS
muttley
Alert Team
It is very hard to fail domestically in Scotland if your name is Celtic. That being said, stretching that level of player into the quality of football he produced had to be admired. It certainly wasn't the approach that Gerrard took. Rangers never looked like a football playing side. They just wanted to be the big disruptors and use all the dark arts in the book. Ange entertained the entire footballing nation.
It will be a tougher gig down here, but I hope he's got what it takes.
Great post 1882!!!
Spursex
Alert Team
Merson also joins in on changing his tune about our Top 4 prospects..
Paul Merson, writing on Sportskeeda, has now changed his mind over who he thinks will seal top-four between Tottenham and Villa.
Just a fortnight ago, the pundit backed Spurs to finish above the Villans, though he acknowledged that things can change quickly in football.
Now, Merson believes Villa have what it takes to land a Champions League spot over Tottenham, who he thinks are too weak at the back to get over the line.
“I think Manchester United are a million miles off the race for a top-four spot at the moment, so it’s between Tottenham and Villa,” said Merson.
“At the moment, I think I’ll go for Villa to secure UEFA Champions League football next season as Spurs are too open at the back for my liking.”
Paul Merson, writing on Sportskeeda, has now changed his mind over who he thinks will seal top-four between Tottenham and Villa.
Just a fortnight ago, the pundit backed Spurs to finish above the Villans, though he acknowledged that things can change quickly in football.
Now, Merson believes Villa have what it takes to land a Champions League spot over Tottenham, who he thinks are too weak at the back to get over the line.
“I think Manchester United are a million miles off the race for a top-four spot at the moment, so it’s between Tottenham and Villa,” said Merson.
“At the moment, I think I’ll go for Villa to secure UEFA Champions League football next season as Spurs are too open at the back for my liking.”
