Divine_islet
Vital 1st Team Regular
The cure lies not in the formation but the creation of an effective playing style.
Aston Villa v Wolverhampton Wanderers, Sat. 16th October, 3pm ko
- Thread starter Pride of Lions
- Start date
The cure lies not in the formation but the creation of an effective playing style.
Wicked Messenger
Vital 1st Team Regular
When the chips were down the back 5 weren’t up to it. Yes Tuanzebe was the worst offender but Mings and Konza also lack the power in a central role to lead from the back. Targett and Young equally impotent. If you’ve got 5 defenders plus Nakamba this shouldn’t be happening. And that’s why you can get turned over easily with this system. When pushed back there is no outlet to escape. No wide men, just McGinn, Ramsay, Watkins and Ings and they were back for the set pieces as well. A complete shambles.
The French Connection
Vital Squad Member
On reflection if it was the case that it was necessary to take off Buendia, Cash and Luiz then options were limited. An alternative to Smiths replacements though could have been to bring Hause on for Cash, push Konsa to right back and revert to a back 4 with Targett at left back. Axel was having a mare at the back and could have played the last 10 as a defensive midfielder. As for Buendia and Luiz’s replacements, we could have gone with Sanson and either Archer, El Ghazi or Bidace to make up a 4-3-3 formation.
Konsa Hause Mings Targett
Sanson. Axel McGinn
Ings. Archer. Watkins
Just my thoughts, it might have helped keep us on the front foot.
Konsa Hause Mings Targett
Sanson. Axel McGinn
Ings. Archer. Watkins
Just my thoughts, it might have helped keep us on the front foot.
Actually, from the positions he got into on three occasions yesterday he did right to take the shot, it was on, it wasn't the decision making, it was the execution that was woeful.
Wicked Messenger
Vital 1st Team Regular
And what’s all that about Mings getting booked for wasting time when we’re winning 2-0? How to hand over the initiative!
Silhillvilla
Vital Football Legend
Yes and there are no cracks, ignore the 2021 form it didn't happen, dean smith is the next Brian Clough and we are a much better team without Joe.We have been told numerous times on here that we are a midtable team who will win matches we were supposed to lose and lose the ones expected to win. So put it in your pipe and smoke it !
JW1985
Vital Champions League
Its happened before to better teams than us and it'll happen again to better teams than us. Doesn't make it any less infuriating.
danvilla2
I’m not an expert
Only tweak from me is I’d prefer to see McGinn more advanced, when he drifts into that outside-right-central-midfield role (if that makes sense), he is dangerous cutting in as his assist and goal proved.
However I’m with you on the principle, the names on the sheet can all altered depending on who is on form or not.
danvilla2
I’m not an expert
Absolutely. Wolves didn’t win that game, we lost it. We were shaking like ten outfield players in a real life squid games.
I’ll give Wolves credit as they came to VP looking not to lose and went home with a smash and grab, but had we held out nerve, the dingles would’ve been back on the train home to the next stop moaning about how shite they were.
JW1985
Vital Champions League
I couldn't believe how far they'd fallen in the space of a couple of years. From getting into Europe to what we saw yesterday. A mid table side going nowhere. And we fell apart for them just because they chucked on a few attacking players. Horrendous.
Wicked Messenger
Vital 1st Team Regular
It wasn’t smash and grab as they had more possession than us and similar shots on target. We capitulated with the same familiar defensive frailty of old and if wolves can do that to us so can most of the others. Smith has to get it sorted as three defeats in a row would send us looking down instead of up. The first thing he has to do is ditch wing backs.
danvilla2
I’m not an expert
Apart from us giving the ball away at the very start and a dangerous Roadrunner run and shot, I can’t recall any shots for 80 mins. They had a couple of corners in the build up play but Axel was their most creative player going forward.
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Villan57
Alert Team
Shipping goals for fun again like season one back in the PL , nobody will ever convince me Mings is an England quality CB he's Curtis Davies Mk2, I really thought we'd brought in Axel as a backup not to play him at every given chance. All we are doing is helping Man Utd get a better price for him and to be honest he's nowhere near their team so he's not good enough for us either. Konsa I like, I like him at right-back as well, as he can defend, unlike cash who is a hothead.
Despite Mcginn, our midfield is lightweight and not very quick.
I'm stuck for once as to the way forwards because despite the result we were 2-0 up with 15 to go and had ground out that result ith a gritty performance, Not sure where our goals were coming from as we lack any flair players but we ground out a 2-0 lead without having much trouble apart from that run from Adama first half
Tom Cat
Vital Squad Member
After sleeping on it, I feel a bit more objective about things and the rage has slided some.
Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that we were at a crossroads now and I feel the same.
5-3-2 ain't working now. Do we stick with it in the hope that players get used to the formation, knowing there will be more slip ups, or go back to what we know. As we are all aware, the new formation seems to be accommodate Ings, but it's at the expense of using wide players which we have in abundance (when fit), including Bailey who was another marquee signing.
I really like Ings, but I'm starting to think he was a bad purchase. Had we bought a younger striker, they wouldn't be expecting a start and we could have maintained a formation that we are used to. The money spent on Ings could then have been used in other areas.
Watkins has been poor this season, but I am not worried about him as a player. We know he can deliver and whilst he isn't the best marksmen, or even a great ball carrier, he usually offers a hell of a lot to the team. If we had been playing in last year's style, I don't think he'd be struggling like this.
Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that we were at a crossroads now and I feel the same.
5-3-2 ain't working now. Do we stick with it in the hope that players get used to the formation, knowing there will be more slip ups, or go back to what we know. As we are all aware, the new formation seems to be accommodate Ings, but it's at the expense of using wide players which we have in abundance (when fit), including Bailey who was another marquee signing.
I really like Ings, but I'm starting to think he was a bad purchase. Had we bought a younger striker, they wouldn't be expecting a start and we could have maintained a formation that we are used to. The money spent on Ings could then have been used in other areas.
Watkins has been poor this season, but I am not worried about him as a player. We know he can deliver and whilst he isn't the best marksmen, or even a great ball carrier, he usually offers a hell of a lot to the team. If we had been playing in last year's style, I don't think he'd be struggling like this.
Melon Donkey
I am a little bit perplexed
BOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Silhillvilla
Vital Football Legend
Said at the time Ings was a total panic buy and timed to deflect attention from Joe going up the M6. £30m plus £6m signing on fee and £150k a week is a waste of vital funds , no wonder we weren't buying any others after that. Total waste
danvilla2
I’m not an expert
I’m not against 3-5-2 tactically in the right games and in the past I’ve thought when we were shipping goals it would’ve been good tactically, but winnable games at home with 5 defensive outfield players plus a deep lying Luiz is too negative. We rely too much on Cash to be a danger, and his crossing and shooting isn’t where it needs to be plus Targett seems too scared to push on. When I watch Chelsea (albeit a different level to us), Chilwell or Alonso end up like a left forward at times getting in the box and scoring goals.
Here’s what I saw yesterday in our “3-5-2”, if anyone has a heat map or knows of one I’d like to see it to verify whether I am talking bollocks or sense.
Konsa….Axel….Mings…..Targett
Cash………...Luiz
….….Buendia….SJM
………Ings……….…Watkins
I said to the bloke next to me we need to go four at the back and he said we basically are playing four at the back but our best centre half is playing right back whilst Axel is doing nothing in the build up play or defensively that Konsa couldn’t do on his own.
Tomy-Flemba
Vital Squad Member
Exactly this. Ings, although a terrific player, is not the signing we needed and if anything has totally de-railed our plans for the season. To accommodate him you have to do one of the following:
1. Stay with 3-5-2 and play Ings and Watkins. However this formation as we saw yesterday is prone to defensive mishaps and means that Bailey and Traore, arguably our 2 most dangerous players, will struggle to get into the starting lineup.
2. Play 4-4-2 with Ings and Watkins up top. Again I don't think this will work as our midfield would be totally exposed.
3. Go back to 4-3-3 and drop Watkins and play Ings as a lone striker. This is probably my go to option, however this it at the cost of dropping Watkins which we know Smith will be reluctant to do, or playing him on the wing which, again, Smith would not be keen on.
I think that with Traore and Bailey both out we will be sticking with 3-5-2. Personally I would revert back to 4-3-3 with Ings up top and JPB and AEG on the wings.
